Checkride without Foreflight?

Ashlyn Maria

Ashlyn Maria

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Ashlyn Maria
Hello POA,

Did any of you do your PPL without Foreflight or comparable?
I'm halfway through my PPL and I'm planning to checkride without an iPad. I don't even own one at this point (though I probably will get one before IR.) My flight school borders class D and C airspace. It just dawned on me that everyone else is referencing their screens when they're flying and I'm only looking at the ground, the sky and all around. Oh yeah, and my sectional.
So my question: is planning on paper and looking at the ground going to be enough? What are your tips for flying by pilotage, sectionals and dead reckoning alone?

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk
 
Ashlyn Maria said:
Hello POA,

Did any of you do your PPL without Foreflight or comparable?
I'm halfway through my PPL and I'm planning to checkride without an iPad. I don't even own one at this point (though I probably will get one before IR.) My flight school borders class D and C airspace. It just dawned on me that everyone else is referencing their screens when they're flying and I'm only looking at the ground, the sky and all around. Oh yeah, and my sectional.
So my question: is planning on paper and looking at the ground going to be enough? What are your tips for flying by pilotage, sectionals and dead reckoning alone?

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

All of my instructors were using FF and a I pad during my PP training in 2015.
About a month before my checkride I got my own I pad and FF.

During my ground checkride the DPE asked to see my sectionals and my flight plan.

I had did one on both paper and on FF. I wasn't sure if he would accept it on FF?

He was very enthusiastic and accepting of my flight plan and sectionals on FF.
Matter of fact he spent about 45 minutes showing me features of FF which took away from the 90 minute oral.

I didn't use the I pad when I flew the plane during the flight portion of my checkride that I remember?
 
Don't need GPS for a check ride. Just be sure you're familiar with the charts, landmarks, local navaids, etc. Plan your flight, fly your plan (until the DPE intervenes). Make sure you know how to use all the equipment you have, including VOR nav radios.
 
I didn't use foreflight or an iPad at all at any point during my primary training, and this was within the past several years, not decades ago before it was available. Only started using it after I got my ticket and even still I don't use it all that much, more just as a backup and for passengers to play around with if they want. The planes I flew in training did have GPS but I didn't use it for the checkride or much outside of being trained on having that as a backup as well. It was all dead reckoning, pilotage, and VORs for navigating during my training and I think it was the best way to do it.
 
Ashlyn Maria said:
Hello POA,

Did any of you do your PPL without Foreflight or comparable?
I'm halfway through my PPL and I'm planning to checkride without an iPad. I don't even own one at this point (though I probably will get one before IR.) My flight school borders class D and C airspace. It just dawned on me that everyone else is referencing their screens when they're flying and I'm only looking at the ground, the sky and all around. Oh yeah, and my sectional.
So my question: is planning on paper and looking at the ground going to be enough? What are your tips for flying by pilotage, sectionals and dead reckoning alone?

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

There is nothing that states the chart has to be in paper form. Electronic charts are perfectly fine. However, I don't like it when my students rely too much on the moving map GPS. I usually ask them to turn the GPS off but keep using the chart.

BTW, I hate it when people assume the electronic app is synonymous with Foreflight or iPad.
 
I did my PP checkride with paper, pencil, and E6B. I didn't get lost

Pay attention to airspaces and mark edges with landmarks or VOR radials so you stay clear of whatever you need to avoid. C'mon, it's more fun that way.
 
I just did my checkride in June. Did not use anything for maps besides the GPS in the plane (and that only to show I knew how to use it) and paper sectionals. No problems at all. In fact, I think my DPE was impressed that I did it that way.

As for tips - study where you are and plan to go before you go, so you're not trying to figure out just where the heck you are and feeling flustered because the DPE is there. If you can identify landmarks (towers, roads, towns, etc) and know relatively where they are, pilotage is easy.
For dead reckoning, make sure you're keeping good track of times. Don't guess or round numbers because that'll add up.
Fold your sectional before you get in the plane, even if gets unfolded again before you get in. It'll be easier to refold if the creases are there already.
 
I have (had?) a student do his Checkride (and pass) Wednesday.

ForeFlight was permitted though the flight plan review was done using both paper and tablet.

During the flight, the first waypoints were top of climb and a 6-8 minute point and beyond. Done by pilotage and short discussion of how much distance and time and if time between was shorter or longer, what does that mean.

Diversion was calculated by FF and the “two finger ruler” feature.

After that, tablet was stowed as it was no longer needed.
 
The way I understand it, correct me if Im wrong, is that if you want to use it you must show proficiency with it so it becomes another thing to learn, know well and possible be quizzed about it.
If you're doing fine locally without it it might be best to put it on the back burner.

Pilotage- Know your TAS and always have a clock running. Jot notes down. Practice the math and when you can round off or guestimate formulas.
 
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Ashlyn Maria said:
So my question: is planning on paper and looking at the ground going to be enough? What are your tips for flying by pilotage, sectionals and dead reckoning alone?

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I think planning on paper and looking at the ground will be enough. Using ForeFlight is great, but in reality it is mostly just the paper methods converted to electronics (ignoring ADS-B Out/In to help with spotting traffic, weather, etc.). Just be prepared with your E6B to be able to calculate wind correction, TAS, fuel burn, etc.

As far as tips, draw your course line on the sectional and mark it off in 10 mile increments with a Z bar (on the forward leg of the Z, write down the distance to destination and on the backward one the distance from your origin). Calculate your magnetic heading using magnetic variation listed on the sectional and forecast winds. You can correct for winds once you get flying (use a flight plan form). While flying along, write on the sectional your times at each Z bar so you can easily calculate ground speed and time to destination. Keep up with your checkpoints and monitor your flight to be sure you are where you should be. Those are my tips based on my experience.

Good luck Ashlyn Maria!
 
Thanks, everyone! It's nice to know there are other pilots who didn't use Foreflight. The way my ground instructor talked about it, I figured "How to Use ForeFlight" must be a chapter in the PHAK.

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk
 
By the way, there are a few free EFB programs (or apps as the current designation is) that will run on a relatively inexpensive Android table if you wanted to try one out.
 
Yup, long time ago, no gps either, just chart and a grease pencil. One vor if I got lost.
 
Robert Gee said:
Im not as far along as you so I asked https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/androids-or-isheep.133366/
Lots of options today. Browse them, pick one, stick with it and learn it inside and out..
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link. I don't use Apple either, so I'm going to eventually find a compatible EFB. At this point, I personally don't know any pilots that use anything other than FF. But I can't say I know a lot of pilots... For now, pencil and paper will do. :)

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk
 
No iPad at the time and a minimal/portable GPS that I left behind.

Soon enough the DPE gave me the divert to another airport thingy. I turned in the general direction and began plotting the exact heading when he asked where we were. I identified the highway beneath us with the rail road tracks next to it and looking well into the distance I could see a large tower. I pointed it out and the sectional verified that the airport we were diverting to was a little beyond the tower.

Good enough - let's do some air work!
 
Just because ForeFlight is an acceptable source for charts doesn’t mean paper isn’t. If you like paper, it’s a great thing. It will never overheat and crash.
 
Ashlyn Maria said:
Thanks for the link. I don't use Apple either, so I'm going to eventually find a compatible EFB. At this point, I personally don't know any pilots that use anything other than FF. But I can't say I know a lot of pilots... For now, pencil and paper will do. :)

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


If you have an Android tablet or phone already, you can download FltPlan GO for free. It’s not quite as slick as ForeFlight, but it has most of the same features.
 
I did my Private ride before ForeFlight, so I was using paper. I used ForeFlight for my instrument ride.

I’ll be the contrarian here and say that you should train in the manner that you intend to fly after you get your license, and the DPE will expect that. So if you intend to use paper for the foreseeable future, then great, go for it. But if your plan is to get through the check ride then buy an iPad, I would just do that now so that your instructor can help you work through the idiosyncrasies and get a good workflow down from the beginning.
 
Daleandee said:
No iPad at the time and a minimal/portable GPS that I left behind.

Soon enough the DPE gave me the divert to another airport thingy. I turned in the general direction and began plotting the exact heading when he asked where we were. I identified the highway beneath us with the rail road tracks next to it and looking well into the distance I could see a large tower. I pointed it out and the sectional verified that the airport we were diverting to was a little beyond the tower.

Good enough - let's do some air work!
Click to expand...
That sounds like my diversion. Made the turn, noted the time, estimated the new headwind to get an initial ground speed estimate, then estimated the distance to finally get an initial ETA.

“Ok, let’s move on.”
 
2004.
From a Class D under a shelf of a Class B.
Paper charts.
Paper XC flight plan.
No GPS.
Had to know the local landmarks pretty well
Altimeter very important (stay outta that B!)
Was never any good at using an E6B in flight; hated it.
Prefer the "aim in roughly the right direction and go from there" approach to diversions. Still do.
Love pilotage. Pilotage is the best. And fun. Still is!
 
At a CFI’s recommendation, I didn’t use an iPad or FF until my solo XC. But other than XCs, I still didn’t “get” pilotage until I did some flying in a Champ after getting my PPL.

For local flights, get as much of that stuff out of the plane as possible. Focus on the yoke and the horizon. For XC flights, a GPS is a great tool, but your DPE will declare it “INOP” very early in your checkride, so I suggest you wait until after you checkride to star using it regularly. Having said that, if you have an Android phone, install Avare on it and keep in in your pocket just in case you feel a little lost.

Avare is free and will cover 80% of the VFR pilot’s use for FF, with the exception of some hardware compatibility for ADSB.
 
I've never used foreflight. It doesn't have any advantage to me that's worth buying an ipad for. I do use an Android, with Avare. I took one on my pp checkride, and I think on my sport checkride, but didn't use it much. For my checkrides, I was expected to be proficient with pilotage, and to an extent ded reckoning. For both, I was expected to have a general idea of where things were in the area, in my head. Especially sport pilot. For private pilot, I was expected to be able to determine my approximate position via VOR.

After checkride, I use Avare/Android as a way to have a legal map, as a backup for situational awareness, mostly so I don't enter C/D airspace by accident. For airport info, I may be a little bit OCD, but I carry a paper cheat sheet for the local airports I fly to, with things like pattern altitude, runways, CTAF/ATIS, etc, so I don't have to look them up.
 
I don’t let my students use Foreflight until the last few lessons. It takes only a couple of hours to learn how to use Foreflight, but you don’t learn the building blocks of flight planning and navigation.
 
Ashlyn Maria said:
Hello POA,

Did any of you do your PPL without Foreflight or comparable?
I'm halfway through my PPL and I'm planning to checkride without an iPad. I don't even own one at this point (though I probably will get one before IR.) My flight school borders class D and C airspace. It just dawned on me that everyone else is referencing their screens when they're flying and I'm only looking at the ground, the sky and all around. Oh yeah, and my sectional.
So my question: is planning on paper and looking at the ground going to be enough? What are your tips for flying by pilotage, sectionals and dead reckoning alone?

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The examiner will require them to put their IPAD in airplane mode which makes it a map without aircraft location.

Read task VI A. Navigation. The FAA wants you do demonstrate you can navigate by dead rec and pilotage. B. Navigation Systems and Radar Services is usually VOR navigation and you may be chatting with the Class C controller, C. Diversion. D. Lost Procedures.

Besides that, if you are only half way done you have your XCs to do yet.
 
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Half Fast said:
If you have an Android tablet or phone already, you can download FltPlan GO for free. It’s not quite as slick as ForeFlight, but it has most of the same features.
Click to expand...
For my GA flying I use FltPlan GO with I use my IPad or Iphone. It's free and provides all the charts and maps as well as flight planning/filing.
 
Every DPE I have ever met allows you to use an EFB - but depending on the checkride you may not be able to use it for navigation.

Not being able to use it for charts and/or frequency lookup would make me very, VERY angry.
 
Not to be a jerk, but it's completely valid for the DPE to fail it at any point.
 
My 9200 plus housed 1959 Cessna 172 has experienced many incidents that required wing replacements, tail feather fixes, firewall ,nose wheel replacement and a bunch of other experience I don't need to replicate.

During one of its rebuilds the dash was redid , vaccumn system removed and a I-pad mount in the dash . I have no heading indicator nor attitude indicator . They are replaced by the I pad with Fore Flight .

Instructor does not like any glass panel instruments . He is an old 25,000 plus total time pilot. 6000 hours of spray plane , commercial pilot in a variety of single and multi engine aircraft and a citation jet.
At times the I pad is hard to read. But I like its versatility .

I like pilotage using the clock and map with check points . The I pad is back up for the paper flight plan.
The other feature I like and so does the CFI is the track log. He can see what I have been doing in my solo fights.
No BS stories of where you have been , flight altitude , speed , angle of bank , time. :)
 
Half Fast said:
If you have an Android tablet or phone already, you can download FltPlan GO for free. It’s not quite as slick as ForeFlight, but it has most of the same features.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt that. It may have a moving map, but FF is simply the king of EFBs.

For OP, for VFR FF is complete overkill. You really dont get the very cool stuff unless you upgrade to PLUS and then its still more for IFR as there just isn't a lot to VFR flight.

I use an ipad Pro 10in and even during boring VFR flight to using FlyQ it will shut off due to heat. iPads are horrible Hardware platforms.
 
pfarber said:
I highly doubt that. It may have a moving map, but FF is simply the king of EFBs.
Click to expand...
You can doubt all you want but you are wrong. I now use Foreflight in my professional flying and FltPlan GO for my GA flying. The free FltPlan GO has all the maps (Sectionals, High & Low IFR) and charts (in NOS format) as well as tghe A/FD. It can hold up to 10 aircraft and cn do the flight planning/filing just like Foreflight. There are some thing in the vesion of Foreflight that my Company uses that's not in FltPlan GO but they pay for it. For basic GA fly the free version of FltPlan GO is very useable in both Androids and Apple devices.
 
pfarber said:
I highly doubt that. It may have a moving map, but FF is simply the king of EFBs.

For OP, for VFR FF is complete overkill. You really dont get the very cool stuff unless you upgrade to PLUS and then its still more for IFR as there just isn't a lot to VFR flight.

I use an ipad Pro 10in and even during boring VFR flight to using FlyQ it will shut off due to heat. iPads are horrible Hardware platforms.
Click to expand...


FltPln GO is free, so why not try it and see what it does before posting about it?
 
pfarber said:
I highly doubt that. It may have a moving map, but FF is simply the king of EFBs.

For OP, for VFR FF is complete overkill. You really dont get the very cool stuff unless you upgrade to PLUS and then its still more for IFR as there just isn't a lot to VFR flight.

I use an ipad Pro 10in and even during boring VFR flight to using FlyQ it will shut off due to heat. iPads are horrible Hardware platforms.
Click to expand...

The Hilton Software’s WingX product is also a very good product at about 1/2 the price of FF for their IFR subscription. Their VFR product is 99 cents, one time, one the APP Store.

The problem is FF is the only third party App usable with Garmin transponders.

I have zero problems with my IPAD mini over heating and it’s in a rather heavy sleep/wake cover. I prevent it from becoming heat soaked before Engine start, keep it out of the sun, and turn down the brightness.
 
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I’ve had students prep both paper navlogs along with their FF plan…. Although 75% of DPEs I’ve seen prefer to move forward with FF, I’m a firm believer that the mere preparation of a paper plan has made checkrides start out much better. I think the DPEs respect the fact that you know how to do it by hand/old school and understand all the fundamentals (ie wind planning, performance charts, etc)
 
I didn't use FF for the checkride, but I sure did have it out on my iPad ready to use if needed. And I told the DPE as such. He appreciated the fact that I had paper charts that I used to my flight planning... but he also greatly appreciated that I also had the plan on ForeFlight and also loaded into the 430w (which I also demonstrated to him I knew how to use). Risk mitigation, and all that..

Honestly, I don't remember using my paper chart much at all - we pretty much took off and I headed for my first waypoint for about five minutes then we went on to stalls, turns-about-a-point, short field.. etc...

Quick edit - I also used the heck out of ForeFlight for my XC and my long XC. Just like I use it every time I fly along with the in-panel GPS. Perfectly capable of pilotage / DR, but that's just not the way I fly IRL. More power to those who do.
 
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