Checklists!!

[James331]

Well, I figured my new plane deserved a new checklist, here's my first draft.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[kayoh190]

I don't know squat about a 185, so I can't comment on the content, but it looks clean and well laid out. I like it!

 

[RotorAndWing]

A few comments.

If this is a checklist, why do you have air speeds on the climb checklist? Power settings? Are you actually "checking" these items against the checklist?

Do you really need to check to set the altimeter in cruise?

On the approach check list, do you really need "ATIS"? Is this something you may forget?

On both landing checklist, is it really necessary to have "flaps 40"? Is this an item you may overlook?

Is it necessary to have landing speeds on a checklist?

 

[James331]

A few comments.

If this is a checklist, why do you have air speeds on the climb checklist? Power settings? Are you actually "checking" these items against the checklist?

Do you really need to check to set the altimeter in cruise?

On the approach check list, do you really need "ATIS"? Is this something you may forget?

On both landing checklist, is it really necessary to have "flaps 40"? Is this an item you may overlook?

Don't really need em' I just had some extra space and figured it didn't make too much of a mess of it.

I could just make a business card that said, "gear down for land, UP for water" and I'd probably do alright with just that.

Heck the plane was being operated, for the most part, without a checklist before I bought it.

The flaps are aren't at clear as other planes, it's just a Johnson bar, click click click, so the 40 was put on to double check that they were on the last click.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Don't really need em' I just had some extra space and figured it didn't make too much of a mess of it.

I could just make a business card that said, "gear down for land, UP for water" and I'd probably do alright with just that.

Heck the plane was being operated, for the most part, without a checklist before I bought it.

The flaps are aren't at clear as other planes, it's just a Johnson bar, click click click, so the 40 was put on to double check that they were on the last click.

My point is when people develop "checklist" they usually create a "do list" or a cockpit instruction guide.

Checklist should do just that, check. For each stage of flight (before start, after start, taxi, before takeoff, after takeoff, approach, landing, after landing and shut down) should have a flow pattern, and then the pattern is "checked" with a list.

 

[ChrisK]

I like having abbreviated cruise performance charts on there. I find myself digging those out

 

[dmspilot]

If this is a checklist, why do you have air speeds on the climb checklist

Is it necessary to have landing speeds on a checklist?

Maybe you should write to Cessna and ask them why their 185 checklist (as well as the checklists for every other model they produce) have climb and approach speeds on them?

 

[RotorAndWing]

Maybe you should write to Cessna and ask them why their 185 checklist (as well as the checklists for every other model they produce) have climb and approach speeds on them?

We're talking about owner produced checklist and checklist construction.

The manufacturer's checklist is more of a "do-list" and cockpit abbreviated "instruction manual".

We're talking about a light single engine airplane with a narrow margin of speed ranges that are easily memorized. I fail to see what the purpose of placing them on a "checklist" actually accomplish.

 

[RotorAndWing]

For example, here is a Airbus Normal checklist:

 

[James331]

I hear ya

The other reason I have some speeds on there, not the best reason but..

It's nice to have a refresher, the plane I fly for work is a bit diffrent, 6mo checks, non sched single pilot IFR, I have my flows down, check list to check that I didn't miss anything, no speeds on my lists there.

I know it could be a while between flights in my 185, so it's just a kick in the butt to keep me from going into default mode, which is a diffrent set of speeds.

Besides, doesn't seem like it's cluttering the list any.

 

[Matthew]

On th Airbus checklist: what are "packs"?

 

[Zeldman]

I hear ya

The other reason I have some speeds on there, not the best reason but..

It's nice to have a refresher, the plane I fly for work is a bit diffrent, 6mo checks, non sched single pilot IFR, I have my flows down, check list to check that I didn't miss anything, no speeds on my lists there.

I know it could be a while between flights in my 185, so it's just a kick in the butt to keep me from going into default mode, which is a diffrent set of speeds.

Besides, doesn't seem like it's cluttering the list any.

At one time I was current in 8 airplanes. 6 piston and 2 turbine. All part 135 checkrides. And it was possible to fly 3 different airplanes in one day. I had my own reference sheet, or check list, for each airplane that included my own flow checks and reference power settings and airspeeds.

I don't have any problem with your checklist. I know there will be times you are making a gear up landing on purpose and a reference sheet is a very good idea.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

On th Airbus checklist: what are "packs"?

Air conditioning packs.

Checklists just get in the way. Develop a flow.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I think R&W's point is that shorter checklists that have the essentials tend to get used; Longer checklists with a lot of unnecessary items tend to get ignored.

Bottom line is write a checklist you will use (often as a backup to a flow). What that is is going to change from person to person. For example, despite agreeing with R&W in general, I do list appropriate speeds and even the power settings for instrument approaches. Why? I fly a variety of makes and models and a quick reference reminder on a short checklist is an assist.

To answer the original question

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Whatever works for you from an operational and ergonomic standpoint. I've been writing my own checklists since I started taking lessons almost 25 years ago. They're excellent. But as a friend found out when he tried to use it, it is tailored for me and my "Switches - PRN" made no sense to someone who was used to a checklist that identified each of them.

 

[Unit74]

Some these comments are just holier than thou..... You guys can take all your big iron crap and stuff it. Lists keep people from missing something. Saying you should develop a flow is great. But you have to verify it with something.

Instead of beating him up, offer real checklist advice not calling him to out be incompetent.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Some these comments are just holier than thou..... You guys can take all your big iron crap and stuff it. Lists keep people from missing something. Saying you should develop a flow is great. But you have to verify it with something.

I think I pointed out just that, develop a flow then verify with a checklist.

The purpose of the Airbus checklist example was to show even with a highly advanced airplane the checklist is kept rather simplistic, again it just "checks the flows".

Instead of beating him up, offer real checklist advice not calling him to out be incompetent.

I reread all of the postings, and I can't find where anyone called the OP incompetent.

Also, the OP asked for comments and suggestions, and from what I'm reading that's exactly what he is getting.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Some these comments are just holier than thou..... You guys can take all your big iron crap and stuff it. Lists keep people from missing something. Saying you should develop a flow is great. But you have to verify it with something.

Instead of beating him up, offer real checklist advice not calling him to out be incompetent.

I'm trying to figure out which posts you are talking about.

And I'm not sure why you want the "big iron" people to "stuff it." Their (and Part 91 corporate's) "crap" includes using document checklists far more and more consistently than we do in light GA. Might even have something with their better accident rate?

 

[midlifeflyer]

For example, here is a Airbus Normal checklist:

I love looking at professional operation checklists.

Question: What does the symbol next to the "Cabin ready" items refer to?

 

[RotorAndWing]

I love looking at professional operation checklists.

Question: What does the symbol next to the "Cabin ready" items refer to?

"As Required"

 

[James331]

I'm trying to figure out which posts you are talking about.

And I'm not sure why you want the "big iron" people to "stuff it." Their (and Part 91 corporate's) "crap" includes using document checklists far more and more consistently than we do in light GA. Might even have something with their better accident rate?

No one offended me

I was asking for feedback, actually the template that I cut apart was a mixture of the 185 amphib poh supplement, and my 135 PC12 checklist. I then added the cruise charts though since I had the space on the back.

 

[midlifeflyer]

"As Required"

Interesting. Any particular reason for two types of "As Required" (one in words and one with the symbology)?

 

[RotorAndWing]

Here's a couple of checklist I wrote and used for the Hughes 300C and Hughes OH-6 (Hughes 500)

Hughes 300C Check List



Before Engine Start



· Passenger Briefing…………….complete

· Seat Belts/Shoulder Harness….on

· Fuel…………………………….verified

· Cyclic…………………………..checked

· Collective……………………...checked, down

and friction on

· Pedals…………………………checked, neutral

· Clutch Control Switch……….open, RELEASE

· Fuel Valve…………………….on

· Battery/ Alternator…………..on

· Beacon………………………..on

· Magneto Switch……………..both



Engine Start



· Throttle………………………open 1/8 inch

· Mixture………………………rich

· Boost Pump…………………..on, prime 3-4 seconds, off

· Mixture………………………cut off

· Starter………………………..engage



after start, stabilize engine at 1400 rpm



· Oil Pressure………………….checked

· Radio Master………………...on

· Transponder…………………standby



Rotor Engagement



· Collective……………………check DOWN, friction on

· RPM…………………………1500 rpm

· Clutch Control Switch………adjust to engage

When Rotor Fully Engaged, move switch to“Engage”

and close guard……………check “Release” light out

ENGINE CHECKS

· RPM…………………………2000 rpm

· Fuel Boost Switch……………on, check rise

· Oil Pressure………………….check

· Oil Temperature…………….check

· Cylinder Head Temp………..check

· RPM…………………………2500 rpm

· Manifold Pressure…………..14”

· Magnetos…………………….check

· Over run clutch……………..checked

· Fuel Low Warning Light……..off

· Gear Box Light………………..off



Before Take-Off



· Friction/ Cyclic & Collective….off

· Trim…………………………….set

· Flight Controls…………..checked

· Radios………………………….set

· Transponder…………………“ALT”

· Altimeter………………………..set



Engine Shutdown



· Collective………………..down, friction on

· Cyclic……………………friction on

· Fuel Boost Pump………..off

· RPM……………………..3000 rpm ( 2 minutes)

check for Cylinder Temp drop

· RPM……………………..2000 rpm ( 1 minute )

· Throttle………………….idle ( 1500 rpm )

· Clutch Switch……………open, RELEASE

allow needles to “split”

· Mixture………………….Lean (when rotor rpm reaches 100)

· Magneto Switch…………off

· Radio Master…………...off

· Transponder…………….standby

· Battery/ Alternator Switch…..off





**********************************************************




Hughes OH-6A Check List



Before Engine Start



· Seat Belts/Shoulder Harness….on

· Fuel…………………………….verified

· Cyclic…………………………..checked

· Collective……………………...checked, down

and friction on

· Pedals…………………………checked, neutral

· Fuel Valve…………………….on

· Throttle……………………….fuel cutoff position

(move to full open ,then idle stop,

then to fuel cutoff position)

· Batt-Off-Ext switch…………..proper position

(Batt-battery start, Ext-APU start)

· Fuel Pump Switch……………off






Engine Start



· Anti Collision Light………….on

· Rotor Blades…………………clear

· Throttle……………………….fuel cutoff position

· Starter………………………..engage

· TOT…………………………..check below 200°C

· Throttle……………………….open to idle position

N1- 7°C & above- 15%

7°C thru -18°C - 13%

· Main Rotor…………………..moving by 30% N1

· TOT…………………………..monitor for over-temp

· Starter Switch………………..release at 58% N1

· Oil Pressure………………….check

· XMSN OIL PRESS…………warning light, check out

· N 1 …………………………..62 to 65%

· GEN Switch…………………. On

· Lights…………………………set

· Radios………………………..on

 

[RotorAndWing]

Interesting. Any particular reason for two types of "As Required" (one in words and one with the symbology)?

I'm sure Airbus has a reason. I'll look in the notes to see if they mention it.

 

[Unit74]

My apologies... I interpreted the posts as dog piling the guy for using a checklist. Just trying to stick up for the OP. My bad.

 

[James331]

My apologies... I interpreted the posts as dog piling the guy for using a checklist. Just trying to stick up for the OP. My bad.

I appreciate it none the less

 

[Irish_Armada]

Checklists just get in the way.

That's what my CFI taught me too.

 

[oldShar]

One thing both Rotor and his airbus checklists included that you didn't (and could prove a lifesaver --- ask Boeing and the original XB-17 crew), add a line:

CONTROLS -- free and correct

(make sure you haven't dropped/stuffed/left something in places they shouldn't have been, and that you DID remove the locks -- after T/O isn't the time to find an Oops)

 

[RotorAndWing]

I love looking at professional operation checklists.

Question: What does the symbol next to the "Cabin ready" items refer to?

Interesting. Any particular reason for two types of "As Required" (one in words and one with the symbology)?

To better answer your question. From the A319/320 FCOM:

OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT: The legend  (if installed) indicates that a paragraph or a schematic is applicable only if the related equipment is installed.

On some aircraft the FA station has a function whereas they can enter on their display that the "cabin is ready" and that will show up on the ECAM. Optional Equipment.

 

[midlifeflyer]

To better answer your question. From the A319/320 FCOM:

OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT: The legend  (if installed) indicates that a paragraph or a schematic is applicable only if the related equipment is installed.

On some aircraft the FA station has a function whereas they can enter on their display that the "cabin is ready" and that will show up on the ECAM. Optional Equipment.

Thanks. Funny, it's sort of something I do on my own checklists.

When I was using paper, not having too many pages was a priority. Since moving to a tablet, my checklists are now bookmarked PDF files, so my priority has changed. Since the different aircraft I fly also sometimes have different equipment (different engine monitors or fuel totalizers, for example), I include customized checklists for their operation on pages in the back.

Not wanting to clutter my "normal" checklist, I use a small airplane glyph ✈ on certain items to tell me there is more information available.

 

[midlifeflyer]

That's what my CFI taught me too.

Proper use of checklists prevent mishaps and aid memory.

True story. I did some transition training for someone from a 172 to a 182. As those who have been through it know, it's a pretty simple transition. But apparently he has an instructor who felt as yours does and he eschewed the use of checklists for something as simple as a 172.

Time after time, whether on a landing from the practice area or the multiple landings the FBO required, the pilot did not close the cowl flaps. My favorite was when he went through his "flow," and again didn't close the cowl flaps.

"You're missing something" I said. He went through the flow again. And again. And again. Still no cowl flaps.

"Still missing something." I said.

"I give up," he said, completely perplexed.

Problem is, if you learn not to use a checklist, you end up creating a habit that will be hard to break. The furthest thing from your mind will be using a checklist. You won't even be able to see it, even if it is a big paper one sitting on the glareshield right in your line of sight (yep, that's where it was).

 

[jordane93]

That's what my CFI taught me too.

. Your CFI taught you not to use checklists?

 

[Irish_Armada]

. Your CFI taught you not to use checklists?

Sorry, sarcasm intended

 

[airdale]

I think it's somewhat a matter of taste. Versus the OP's, my checklists are more detailed in some cases and less detailed in others. For example, I have "DG/Set" and "Map/North Up" but I do not have anything about setting up an approach, much less detailed button pushing.

I fly a number of different airplanes, so on the bottom of my flying-side checklists I list numbers like Vx, Vy, Best Glide for a couple of weights, Va for a couple of weights, fuel capacity, and approach speed. Sure, I should remember the really important ones like approach speed, and usually do, but it is nice to have them in front of me just in case.

I've actually written some Excel VBA to make a checklist generator to ensure that all my checklists are in the same format, terminology is the same, order of items is the same wherever possible, etc. It got to be frustrating to correct/edit multiple individual checklists as errors were found or ideas came up. Admittedly, this is kind of a lunatic fringe thing to have done but it works for me.