Check Out

[Stephan E.]

Hi folks

I have a question, which must sound quite trivial for you, but since I'm a foreign pilot I'm not that familiar with some of the stuff which is obvious to you. Therefore my question:

I was in the States last year to get my validation of my JAR-licence. One part of the validation process was the completion of a BFR. I'll be back this summer to do some more hour-building and since my BFR is only one year ago I only need to do a check-out. Unfortunately I'm not able to find any general information on check-outs. Is the programe to be completed roughly the same as a BFR? Will I have to do Airwork and theory? Or is this rather a formality, e.g. a couple of take-offs and landings? Or is there no such thing as "the" check-out and every school does it differently?

Thanks for any hints! It would be helpful to have at least an idea what I'll be expecting.

Best regards
Stephan

 

[OzPilot]

If you are wanting to rent an aircraft for building hours, you will need renters insurance and a check out by an FBO approved CFI.

It takes about 1 hour of flying and some ground work. Then they will sign you off to rent aircraft that you are certified on from that base.

 

[zaitcev]

What Oz said. Also, the check-out is done to anyone regardless of citizenship. The airplane owners basically want to make sure you won't prang their crate. The airwork usually includes stalls, steep turns, maybe a T/G and go-around, and an engine-out simulation. Mind, I only had experience renting basic signles. I expect more system knowledge testing if you're checking in a Mooney with fuel injection.

 

[gprellwitz]

Not all FBOs require renter's insurance. As others have said, the "checkout" is basically to help make sure that you aren't going to wreck their plane. It is also an opportunity for you to find out about local landmarks, expectations, and procedures, including noise abatement procedures. Treat it as an opportunity to brush up on flying under the slightly different US rules.

That being said, you might take the opportunity to turn it into a Wings level, which will extend your requirement for a flight review out 24 calendar months. If you opt to do that, go to www.faasafety.gov and follow the instructions. Note, however, that I'm only 80% sure that as a JAR pilot you'll be able to extend your FAA privileges in this manner. Perhaps Tim Metzinger or one of the other FAASTeam reps on the board can answer that definitively. Basically, if a JAR pilot qualifies, you would only need to do some ground training (computer and/or seminar) and fly some maneuvers to PTS standards. You didn't indicate whether you are actively flying in Switzerland or elsewhere, which could affect how confident you are that you could meet the standards. However, even if you cannot, it's not unlikely that the FBO will consider you as having "passed" the checkout. I just cannot guarantee that!

 

[Stephan E.]

Thanks everybody. That gives me the picture.

Grant: Thanks for the information regarding WINGS. However, I'm actually not looking to extend my BFR-period. Although, to answer your question, I do fly in Switzerland on a regular (low-time) basis, approx. 50 hours a year, I feel it makes sense that I complete a BFR from time to time when coming to the US to make sure I catch up with local standards.

Talking about local standards, I have another question: In Switzerland it is common practice at non-towered airports (and if I don't have ATIS or other sources) to first fly over the field, at 500ft above the pattern, in order to check the wind (windsock or landing cross). Then we (if possible) drop the missing 500ft and join the downwind from the "inside".

What I've learned (and practiced so far) is that in the US the standard is the 45 entry to the pattern from "the outside" (hope you know what I mean). How strict is this rule? Lets say you have a 15/33 runway and you want to land on 15, approaching the airport from the west and you intend to fly a left pattern. Do you overfly the field and join the pattern from the inside or do you shoot way past the airport, make a turn and enter on a 45 from the outside. Being in doubt, that's what I did last year, since this cannot be wrong, as long as you overfly the field high enough. Of course, it would be much easier to join the downwind from the inside, but obviously I want to comply with local procedures.

The same question applies when I know about wind and the runway being used (I avoid saying "the active"...) but I still approach the said runway 15 from the west. Do I fly a long way around the airport to enter on a 45 from the east or do I overfly the field and can I join downwind from the inside? Again up until now I strictly flew around the field with sufficent distance and followed the standard 45.

Hope my question is clear enough...

 

[Clark1961]

Your question seems clear enough to me Stephan. Unfortunately there is no simple answer.

Yes, entering midfield on the 45 from the "outside" is nearly always acceptable and a safe operation. It's also what is depicted in the AIM.

That said, a lot of other entries are commonly observed. When flying into a little used field, I might even make one of those "other entries" because I do want to inspect the runway and surrounding area conditions. When flying into a busier field, I might still make on of those other entries if it will fit in with traffic and gets me on the ground sooner. It all depends on circumstances.

One thing about overflying the field at 500' above pattern altitude: that's where any jets will likely be. Maybe pick something like two or three hundred feet above altitude would be better. Of course anyone in a jet should be talking and maybe they'll even be heard if everyone is on the correct frequency.

Well, that's a bunch of typing for me. I'm sure many others will contribute to the topic. It's one that gets discussed here from time to time.

 

[gprellwitz]

Thanks everybody. That gives me the picture.

Grant: Thanks for the information regarding WINGS. However, I'm actually not looking to extend my BFR-period. Although, to answer your question, I do fly in Switzerland on a regular (low-time) basis, approx. 50 hours a year, I feel it makes sense that I complete a BFR from time to time when coming to the US to make sure I catch up with local standards.

Talking about local standards, I have another question: In Switzerland it is common practice at non-towered airports (and if I don't have ATIS or other sources) to first fly over the field, at 500ft above the pattern, in order to check the wind (windsock or landing cross). Then we (if possible) drop the missing 500ft and join the downwind from the "inside".

What I've learned (and practiced so far) is that in the US the standard is the 45 entry to the pattern from "the outside" (hope you know what I mean). How strict is this rule? Lets say you have a 15/33 runway and you want to land on 15, approaching the airport from the west and you intend to fly a left pattern. Do you overfly the field and join the pattern from the inside or do you shoot way past the airport, make a turn and enter on a 45 from the outside. Being in doubt, that's what I did last year, since this cannot be wrong, as long as you overfly the field high enough. Of course, it would be much easier to join the downwind from the inside, but obviously I want to comply with local procedures.

The same question applies when I know about wind and the runway being used (I avoid saying "the active"...) but I still approach the said runway 15 from the west. Do I fly a long way around the airport to enter on a 45 from the east or do I overfly the field and can I join downwind from the inside? Again up until now I strictly flew around the field with sufficent distance and followed the standard 45.

Hope my question is clear enough...

Your question seems clear enough to me Stephan. Unfortunately there is no simple answer.

Yes, entering midfield on the 45 from the "outside" is nearly always acceptable and a safe operation. It's also what is depicted in the AIM.

That said, a lot of other entries are commonly observed. When flying into a little used field, I might even make one of those "other entries" because I do want to inspect the runway and surrounding area conditions. When flying into a busier field, I might still make on of those other entries if it will fit in with traffic and gets me on the ground sooner. It all depends on circumstances.

One thing about overflying the field at 500' above pattern altitude: that's where any jets will likely be. Maybe pick something like two or three hundred feet above altitude would be better. Of course anyone in a jet should be talking and maybe they'll even be heard if everyone is on the correct frequency.

Well, that's a bunch of typing for me. I'm sure many others will contribute to the topic. It's one that gets discussed here from time to time.

As you and Clark both note, the US does pattern entries somewhat differently than many other countries. I know that in New Zealand we did it the way you describe in Switzerland, and that's the officially depicted method there. In the same manner, entry on the 45 is the officially depicted manner here. Note that I don't say mandatory, but I'd go so far as to say customary. You might find some local folk who'll get in your face (metaphorically speaking) about doing other than the 45 because they don't "know to look for you there", despite the fact that they should be looking everywhere.

We had a whole [post=169894]thread[/post] about this a few years ago, and not much (if anything) has changed. I also have a post in that thread (#19) that depicts what I think you're talking about.

In any case, have a great time flying here again!

 

[TMetzinger]

I'm not familiar with the "JAR validation" process but I'll look it up - I assume it's what's spelled out in 61.75?. If you were issued a US Airman certificate, then I believe everything as far as WINGs and such is the same - your US certificate is the same as any other, subject to the limitations on the US certificate and any restrictions on the foreign license.

As others have noted - there is often a "second" traffic pattern for heavier/faster airplanes 500 feet above the "normal" traffic pattern. So I recommend overflying the field at 1000 feet above the normal pattern altitude to look at the windsock (assuming you don't get the winds from the ASOS/AWOS/Unicom), then using the distance you need to descend to pattern altitude to set yourself up for the "customary" 45 degree entry to the downwind leg.

 

[Stephan E.]

yep, 14 CFR Part 61, Section 61.75 is the one.

 

[OzPilot]

Talking about local standards, I have another question: In Switzerland it is common practice at non-towered airports (and if I don't have ATIS or other sources) to first fly over the field, at 500ft above the pattern, in order to check the wind (windsock or landing cross). Then we (if possible) drop the missing 500ft and join the downwind from the "inside".

The 45 degree on downwind isnt a regulation, just a recommendation.

What you mention above is how we do it in Australia, however after windsock inspection, we decend on the dead side of the field (not the circuit side) and join cross wind. You can do it here as well if you need it operationally (no ASOS/AWOS etc or other means to determine runway in use.

 

[zaitcev]

In Belen (E80) they do parachute jumps right into the center of the pattern. When I went there for TGs back when I was a student, the sight of these guys spiraling in so close to my flight path was disconcerning. Crossing the midfield would sooner or later end with a collision with a jumper. And yet, some locals still do it, when they are sure there's no skydiving in progress.

 

[nosehair]

I recommend overflying the field at 1000 feet above the normal pattern altitude to look at the windsock (assuming you don't get the winds from the ASOS/AWOS/Unicom), then using the distance you need to descend to pattern altitude to set yourself up for the "customary" 45 degree entry to the downwind leg.

I actually have a hard time seeing the windsock (at some of the less attended fields) at 2000 feet. I can't do it. Also, at these fields, there isn't a realistic threat that a jet will be in the pattern ~ with no radio.

 

[Stephan E.]

Hi Everybody

Thank you for your answers. At least it doesn't seem to be THAT clear after all. And when in doubt I will just go for the standard procedure. A foreign pilot carrying out strange procedures is probably all you need :wink2:.

Rgds
Stephan