Cheap airplane not so cheap

brien23

brien23

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Brien
How many people buy a cheap plane thinking they got a steal of a deal only to find out they bought a bottomless money pit. Or buy a aircraft like a pig's ear and expect to turn it into a silk purse, with unreal time and money required to finish their dream.
 
Is this likely to be any different for new"ish" planes vs older ones? My eye is on a sport certificate, so most of the planes I fantasize about are about a decade old or less. Pretty different beasts than the 40/50 year old planes I've got most of my dual hours in.
I see a bunch of LSA that are like $60k and wonder what the actual cost will be in the first couple of years.
 
It happens all the time.

There are the very rare find of a pretty good airplane that is cheap. But most times, cheap to purchase means expensive to bring up to standards.

A GOOD pre purchase inspection helps.
 
I’m 3 for 3, my son is 2 for 2. It can be done.

We both are very experienced at buying used things…. You make your money when you BUY it, don’t assume it’s gonna happen when you sell it.
 
I got a good deal on mine. I knew what I was getting into as the owner was upfront about the tbo engine needing replacement and the results of a very thorough prebuy inspection. It has been a great plane with just a few minor surprises.
 
It’s only going to get more common as all these planes with 30+ year old engines with little use but “only 500 SMOH!!!” Hit the market to capitalize on the inflated prices.
 
brien23 said:
How many people buy a cheap plane thinking they got a steal of a deal only to find out they bought a bottomless money pit. Or buy an aircraft like a pig's ear and expect to turn it into a silk purse, with unreal time and money required to finish their dream.
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At least one. I did it with my head up my *** without a plexi op. A plexi op is where you have a piece of plexiglass surgically implanted in your abdomen so you can see where you’re going when you have your head up your ***.
 
EvilEagle said:
There’s nothing more expensive than a cheap airplane or a free dog.
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Most expensive thing I've ever had was the wife. She brought me something that was even more expensive ... children. They are both worth much more than the cost.

I built my plane so I knew what I had and the cost when it was finished. Been flying it nearly 11 years. No regrets ...
 
On the next mx bill, I’ll be thinking along your lines. But for now generally I’m content with the money spent, the annual was more than I anticipated though given we fixed everything already and she’s flying great already.
 
Every plane I've owned has been a project. I'm 2-0-1 and have another one in progress. I've really enjoyed the journey.

You can't win if you pay someone to do the grunt work. If you like wrenching on planes (as in enjoy it, not suffer through it) you can do quite well.
 
I’m sure very few will admit to it. They were probably advised to not do it, but ignored the advice.
 
Baked Potato said:
Is this likely to be any different for new"ish" planes vs older ones? My eye is on a sport certificate, so most of the planes I fantasize about are about a decade old or less. Pretty different beasts than the 40/50 year old planes I've got most of my dual hours in.
I see a bunch of LSA that are like $60k and wonder what the actual cost will be in the first couple of years.
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Depends. I bought a five year old E-LSA RV-12 that I thought was a little under-valued, mostly due to cosmetic issues. Airworthy but it did need some work. It's worked out well. I put a couple grand and some time into repairs and deferred maintenance, and have had a really nice airplane to fly for the past 6-7 years. The cost has been a pittance compared to renting, and it's probably worth $15-20K more now than I paid for it.

Like most things, if you don't know what you're doing or don't listen to people who actually DO, you can really make some expensive mistakes. I had someone with specific knowledge of that type (he'd just built one, and he's a repeat offender EAA tech counselor) go with me for the pre-buy so I knew what was wrong with it and what needed to be done. There were still a few surprises, but they were minor.
 
Tools said:
I’m 3 for 3, my son is 2 for 2. It can be done.

We both are very experienced at buying used things…. You make your money when you BUY it, don’t assume it’s gonna happen when you sell it.
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That is valuable experience. Anything you can share about how to properly buy a plane in today's market would be appreciated!
 
I've been pleased with my purchase, generally. It's had nothing worse that I would have expected had I spent more on the initial purchase. You have to expect to do some work and replace some parts on these older planes. Replacing the carb was the only thing that caught me a bit off guard, but there's always something.
 
Half Fast said:
Let me tell you what a "cheap" Thoroughbred has cost us.....
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Oh, I know those too. I grew up around horses.

At least with a plane or boat, you can mothball them. Not so much with a thousand pound eating machine!
 
Fearless Tower said:
Believe it or not, I have heard of cheap boats that were more expensive than cheap airplanes
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This is so true…got rid of my twin diesel Sportfisherman last week…aka…the moneypit…and I am boat savvy.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Oh, I know those too. I grew up around horses.

At least with a plane or boat, you can mothball them. Not so much with a thousand pound eating machine!
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:yeahthat:


Exactly. When the beast colics, you have to get the vet out right now, even if it is 7 p.m. on Christmas Eve and the on-call vet is 50 miles away (which happened).
 
Have had good luck with both boats and planes,you just have to be patient and do you do diligence.
 
Every airplane is a bottomless money pit, especially if you have a thing for older (1940's or older) airplanes.
The gate is how much financial pain you can endure before you have to call it quits.
 
Years ago I found a C-152 for sale for $6000. (told ya it was a long time ago. back then a decent 152 usually went for 10-12,000) Seller was the owners grandson.

That is when I learned non aviation relatives think they have a gold mine when grandpas plane has been buried after years of sitting in a barn...
 
Ah, geez - there was a beautful Swift parked at our sister squadron's joint-use base/airport in Ohio back in the 80s. We noticed it NEVER moved and asked the guys in the squadron what was up - it was the sad, usual story - someone had died and the inheritors had a wildly inflated idea of the airplane's value. We watched it deteriorate for a few years. Not sure the outcome. . .
 
Shepherd said:
Every airplane is a bottomless money pit, especially if you have a thing for older (1940's or older) airplanes.
The gate is how much financial pain you can endure before you have to call it quits.
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Agreed. Even if you buy a nice aircraft (even a brand new one) they will consume money at a rate that would surprise a lot of people, especially if you want to keep them nice. I have spent thousands of hours and dollars working on keeping pristine aircraft pristine, and even more when I’m trying to correct all the deficiencies that previous owners and mechanics left behind.

Older aircraft (1940s and 1950s era) can often be nicer and easier to keep nice than some newer stuff however. It seems like I’ve seen the biggest messes left behind in the “spam can” type airplanes that have just gotten used up over the years rather than continuously cared for or totally refurbished at some point like many of the tube and fabric aircraft have been.
 
Hi All,

Likely as many outcomes as there are opinions and experiences. 2019 I bought a Cessna 150 that sat the previous 6 years untouched. Expected things like tires, battery, nose strut leak and brakes were repaired or replaced. The fuel system was a mess. Compression ran from 58 to 73.
The engine was strong so we flew it and last annual it was 68 to 72. It burns a quart of oil in 15 hours. Hopefully dodged a bullet on the engine.
The money went to replace bad magnetos, a tailbeacon and a 406 ELT. The paint is really bad but as a local IA eloquently put it "paint don't make the thing fly". I basically spent the purchase price again getting it airworthy. You have to go in expecting things to get expensive. Luckily I had estimated 4-6K for repairs before I bought it.

YMMV...
 
brien23 said:
How many people buy a cheap plane thinking they got a steal of a deal only to find out they bought a bottomless money pit. Or buy a aircraft like a pig's ear and expect to turn it into a silk purse, with unreal time and money required to finish their dream.
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I ended up with an exceptional deal on mine. It was a pig, but with 400smoh, and well documented regular service. I sunk about $3-$4k into it after purchase, and 6 years later, worth every penny invested. Could actually sell at a profit quickly (if i were so inclined).
 
Shepherd said:
Every airplane is a bottomless money pit, especially if you have a thing for older (1940's or older) airplanes.
The gate is how much financial pain you can endure before you have to call it quits.
Click to expand...

Doesn’t have to be a bottomless pit. But the airplane is going to get your money one way or another.

The cheapest airplane to maintain I have ever owned was my 1933 Waco. Only cost me the price of inspection and oil changes for the most part.

BUT I paid top dollar yo front for a meticulously restored airplane.
 
Half Fast said:
:yeahthat:


Exactly. When the beast colics, you have to get the vet out right now, even if it is 7 p.m. on Christmas Eve and the on-call vet is 50 miles away (which happened).
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Whoever coined the phrase ‘never look a gift horse in the mouth’ was a conn artist….
 
What's a "cheap" plane? I bought a 170 with a partner, for what seemed to be a good deal. It wasn't easy before market or anything, but in actual dollars, it cost less than many new cars. I made money when he bought me out, and he made money when he sold it. Including all the maintenance.
 
Lindberg said:
What's a "cheap" plane? I bought a 170 with a partner, for what seemed to be a good deal. It wasn't easy before market or anything, but in actual dollars, it cost less than many new cars. I made money when he bought me out, and he made money when he sold it. Including all the maintenance.
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Pretty sure OP is referring to purchase price.

There are always exceptions, but very rarely are you going to find a below market priced airplane that isn’t going to cost more in the long run.

You obviously had a good airplane.

My first airplane was a 170, bought cheap and it was the biggest maintenance pig I’ve ever owned.

Doesn’t mean that 170s are bad, but beware the ‘cheap’ ones.
 
Wait, you mean that Gulfstream III with hush kits that’s for sale for only $200k isn’t a good deal? Say it ain’t so…
 
Fearless Tower said:
There are always exceptions, but very rarely are you going to find a below market priced airplane that isn’t going to cost more in the long run.
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People forget that most airplanes are old. REALLY old. The average age of a car on the highway is what? 15 years, max? The average age of a 172, for example, is around 50 years. 170s are all at least 68 years old. Even a 1996 172R is 27 years old now. TriPacers? well over 60 years. A Champ 7AC? 70+. Lots of 60-year-old Cherokees.

And in all that time, maintenance often gets shorted. How many airplanes are opened up properly to get a good look at "all systems" as FAR43 Appendix D demands? Not very many, in my experience. Not when I find inspection panel screws rusted solid. Not when I have to fight to get the gascolator bowl off because it's seized on the housing. Not when I find control cables frayed and their pulley bearings seized. Not when I find obvious cracks in structures.

Stuff happens, and it's often not caught until a new buyer's first annual, unless that annual is as poor as the ones that preceded it.
 
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Half Fast said:
Nor a cheap new one, for that matter.
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Pretty much everybody around GA knows that. Or should.

But too many figure that if they buy the thing cheap, it will continue to be cheap, right? Parts, labor, everything the same as it was when it was built 50 years ago.

Are the parts for an old Ferrari or Lambo cheap? Or the labor? Nope. In fact, the shop rates for stuff like that will be higher, and parts will be expensive because they were never plentiful and only get scarcer. Light airplanes are no different.

Want to fly cheap? Buy an old airplane that has been restored thoroughly and well, and keep it that way.
 
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