Changing my home base

WannFly

WannFly

Final Approach
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
6,553
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KLZU
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Display name:
Priyo
I have been based out of KFAR and have been training on really long runways (9k). now that I own an aircraft, I have started doing something I have never done in my life .. its called budget :p . an opportunity opened up for a city hanger in a nearby uncontrolled airfield and I am switching there. to make some of you jealous.. my new hangar fees will be $100 instead of $315, I chose to save the money and buy gas :).
now the transition....

About KFAR:
-- awesome FBO and great service. they will fill up the tanks and push / pull Kate out of hangar
-- for non-pilots the FBO experience is great, the passenger lounge is awesome
-- 6 runways, with 2 being 9000 ft..., 150 ft wide I can float all I want. if the winds are challenging, I have options
-- instrument approach, PAPI etc
-- controlled, Class Delta
-- taxi times at times is too long and more often than not there is just way too much traffic. pattern work becomes challenging and time consuming when I have to give way for a king air followed by a couple of 747

New Home base - D54
-- 2 runways, 3300 feet, 50 ft wide
-- no instrument, not even PAPI/VASI
-- passenger lounge is .. well lousy as compared to KFAR FBO
-- meat bombs dropping all year long
-- uncontrolled
-- I have landed/took there exactly once and there is a darn tower that got attention when turning base to final
-- next to nothing time to taxi unless there are meat bombs dropping
-- winds could be challenging for a student at times...
-- I don't know how much night flying I will do to begin with, but I want to, and as a student or a minted pilot the idea of landing at night without a glideslope and 3300 ft/ 50 ft runway kinda bothers me.

for all you experienced folks.... any thoughts on how to prepare myself for this change? I am sure with time I will get used to this like everything else. I am sure I will get pretty good at xwind take off and landing and short field takeoff and landings too (though 3300 ft might not even count as a short field)... but is there anything I can do to prepare myself for this change while Kate is getting her annual?
 
WannFly said:
.. but is there anything I can do to prepare myself for this change while Kate is getting her annual?
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No, it is like learning to land. It just takes practice (not book learning). Spend some of that money you are saving on a CFI and do a lot of pattern work at D54. It'll come easily and soon you will be perfectly comfortable at your (Kate's) new home.
 
I've mainly been based out of a 3000' x50' non-towered field for years now. As a student, this will be a positive change for you IMO. If you can land on a 'short' narrow runway as that, you can practically land anywhere. Without a PAPI or VASI the night flying can take some getting used too at first. I think you'll enjoy being based at a non-towered field. Much more quiet and you'll spend a lot less time taxiing and more time in the air. Isn't KFAR where UND is at?
 
- Keep an eye open for the birds from the sewage lagoon.
- Buy some good rubber boots, or waders.
 
Frankly the smaller airport sounds much better.

I prefer a nice small airport, plus it's got some life in it with the DZ.

As for operating, 3300 is enough to land most GA planes 3 times over, you'll be fine.
 
James331 said:
Frankly the smaller airport sounds much better.

I prefer a nice small airport, plus it's got some life in it with the DZ.

As for operating, 3300 is enough to land most GA planes 3 times over, you'll be fine.
Click to expand...
I am little concerned about when the DZ is active... how difficult is to do pattern work when they are dropping meat bombs? or do you not fly pattern when they are landing with all rt of way regs
 
That's a pretty significant savings. Especially over several years.
I enjoy our uncontrolled airport. Mine is a 40-minute drive though. I'm 5 minutes away from a Class D which is probably where I'll base my plane. I can drive 30min and get a $50 a month hanger though. However pretty much zero service there.
Watch out for the Cowboys cuz they will come rolling in without saying anything
 
Skyrys62 said:
That's a pretty significant savings. Especially over several years.
I enjoy our uncontrolled airport. Mine is a 40-minute drive though. I'm 5 minutes away from a Class D which is probably where I'll base my plane. I can drive 30min and get a $50 a month hanger though. However pretty much zero service there.
Watch out for the Cowboys cuz they will come rolling in without saying anything
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yeah, had a experience like that a couple of lessons back. we went to a uncontrolled field few nm away and was doing T&G, I was on base to final, CFI asked me to go around. I did. I had missed a call (honestly I was too busy managing 17G22 wind), but it was a AG plane that landed with a tailwind BETWEEN the asphalt and the grass runway on grass. if I had landed, it would have been nose to nose, well he didnt land on the rny, but still. that was a real eye opener. after some nicely chosen words, I got the hell out of there
 
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WannFly said:
I am little concerned about when the DZ is active... how difficult is to do pattern work when they are dropping meat bombs? or do you not fly pattern when they are landing with all rt of way regs
Click to expand...

In my experience that can be dependent on the skydive outfit and the pilots they employ. Some think they own the airport and you need to stay out of their way, others will work with people landing and departing the airport.
 
Skyrys62 said:
That's a pretty significant savings. Especially over several years.
I enjoy our uncontrolled airport. Mine is a 40-minute drive though. I'm 5 minutes away from a Class D which is probably where I'll base my plane. I can drive 30min and get a $50 a month hanger though. However pretty much zero service there.
Watch out for the Cowboys cuz they will come rolling in without saying anything
Click to expand...

I really really liked the service they had at KFAR... especially when you can leave your plane in front of the hanger, walk away and someone else would push her back and fuel her when its -20 outside. lots of options in challenging conditions, towered etc
But 500 gal more in gas, every yr ..i just couldn't resist
 
Skyrys62 said:
Watch out for the Cowboys cuz they will come rolling in without saying anything
Click to expand...

Just remember they have every right to come in there NORDO, and they might not even have a radio in the airplane.

WannFly said:
yeah, had a experience like that a couple of lessons back. we went to a uncontrolled field few nm away and was doing T&G, I was on base to final, CFI asked me to go around. I did. I had missed a call (honestly I was too busy managing 17G22 wind), but it was a AG plane that landed with a tailwind BETWEEN the asphalt and the grass runway on grass. if I had landed, it would have been nose to nose, well he land on the rny, but still. that was a real eye opener. after some nicely chosen words, I got the hell out of there
Click to expand...

If the winds are relatively light I'd expect traffic from any direction. The ag guys are usually good at looking out for other planes even if they aren't talking on the radio, if they have one.

I often land in the grass between a runway and taxiway or next to a runway. Bushwheels will last a lot longer when you don't land on pavement.
 
The $100 hanger is awesome! I'm kind of in the same boat as you. Got Georgetown (27K), uncontrolled, grass and a runway 40 min drive, and Lexington (KLEX), class C, nice FBO etc. etc. about 25 mins drive. I prefer Georgetown but added 30 mins of driving really bugs me. I'm on the waitlist for hangers at both airports, the plane is at Lexington right now. I'll go where the first hanger opens up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mondtster said:
Just remember they have every right to come in there NORDO, and they might not even have a radio in the airplane.

If the winds are relatively light I'd expect traffic from any direction. The ag guys are usually good at looking out for other planes even if they aren't talking on the radio, if they have one.

I often land in the grass between a runway and taxiway or next to a runway. Bushwheels will last a lot longer when you don't land on pavement.
Click to expand...

good point on the NORDO.
about landing on the grass... I had no idea until I saw one.
 
WannFly said:
I am little concerned about when the DZ is active... how difficult is to do pattern work when they are dropping meat bombs? or do you not fly pattern when they are landing with all rt of way regs
Click to expand...
There's a few non-towered fields around here that do routine skydive ops and they always announce when they're dropping.

Sounds something like "skydivers jumping in one zero minutes over XYZ" and "jumpers away over XYZ, use caution jumpers away over XYZ."

Always keep in mind that this airport is non-towered, so you're in charge of separation. Communicate with the jump plane effectively and you'll be just fine.
 
Originally learned at a USAF AFB with C-141's, F-4's and lots of other transients and 10000' runways. After the Aero Club was shut down, I moved to an untowered 3500'' strip. Much more relaxing. Run around the pattern for a couple of weeks and you'll be fine.

Cheers
 
WannFly said:
I have been based out of KFAR and have been training on really long runways (9k). now that I own an aircraft, I have started doing something I have never done in my life .. its called budget :p . an opportunity opened up for a city hanger in a nearby uncontrolled airfield and I am switching there. to make some of you jealous.. my new hangar fees will be $100 instead of $315, I chose to save the money and buy gas :).
now the transition....

About KFAR:
-- awesome FBO and great service. they will fill up the tanks and push / pull Kate out of hangar
-- for non-pilots the FBO experience is great, the passenger lounge is awesome
-- 6 runways, with 2 being 9000 ft..., 150 ft wide I can float all I want. if the winds are challenging, I have options
-- instrument approach, PAPI etc
-- controlled, Class Delta
-- taxi times at times is too long and more often than not there is just way too much traffic. pattern work becomes challenging and time consuming when I have to give way for a king air followed by a couple of 747

New Home base - D54
-- 2 runways, 3300 feet, 50 ft wide
-- no instrument, not even PAPI/VASI
-- passenger lounge is .. well lousy as compared to KFAR FBO
-- meat bombs dropping all year long
-- uncontrolled
-- I have landed/took there exactly once and there is a darn tower that got attention when turning base to final
-- next to nothing time to taxi unless there are meat bombs dropping
-- winds could be challenging for a student at times...
-- I don't know how much night flying I will do to begin with, but I want to, and as a student or a minted pilot the idea of landing at night without a glideslope and 3300 ft/ 50 ft runway kinda bothers me.

for all you experienced folks.... any thoughts on how to prepare myself for this change? I am sure with time I will get used to this like everything else. I am sure I will get pretty good at xwind take off and landing and short field takeoff and landings too (though 3300 ft might not even count as a short field)... but is there anything I can do to prepare myself for this change while Kate is getting her annual?
Click to expand...

I learned at, and still primarily fly out of an airport with a 2800 ft x 40 ft wide strip, (pretty tightly) surrounded by trees on all four sides, where I did my first solo once upon a time. Have confidence and spend some time with a CFI if you need to, you will get used to it and I think grow to prefer it. Night can be a little tricky, just don't be intimidated or afraid to spend a little time with a CFI even though you have your ticket.
 
TRocket said:
I learned at, and still primarily fly out of an airport with a 2800 ft x 40 ft wide strip, (pretty tightly) surrounded by trees on all four sides, where I did my first solo once upon a time. Have confidence and spend some time with a CFI if you need to, you will get used to it and I think grow to prefer it. Night can be a little tricky, just don't be intimidated or afraid to spend a little time with a CFI even though you have your ticket.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I don't have my ticket yet, so CFI is my best friend :). but good to know the background you solo-ed in. gives me hope :)
 
WannFly said:
mm... rubber boots?
Click to expand...

The place gets a bit soggy at times. Never really floods above propeller height. Can't argue with the better price on the hangar.

I did my primary and instrument training out of KFAR. I can't say that I ever had significant waits or delays due to the tower. But then we mostly went out to Kindred, Casselton, Moorhead and at KFAR, we used 13/31 which kept us out of the way.
 
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My first real cross-country after I got my ticket was to D54. It was gusty, right down the runway, and the wind dropped out on me on short final just over the sewer lagoon. My heart skipped a beat that I'll never forget. Nice little airport. I'm not sure how your driving time will compare with getting to Hector Field, but your total time from parking the car to takeoff will be significantly less at West Fargo. The terminal is pleasant, actually it's what I compare all small airport terminals against, and you're more likely to meet interesting pilots and hear cool war stories at a small airport like that. You're going to love it. It's a shame it's not a half mile further west to be well clear of the Class D airspace rather than right on the line, especially since Fargo seems to think that it's a Class C (and probably should just be made a Class C but they'd actually lose airspace compared to the TRSA so probably they don't want to do that). But other than that, it's a great little airport.
 
WannFly said:
I have been based out of KFAR and have been training on really long runways (9k). now that I own an aircraft, I have started doing something I have never done in my life .. its called budget :p . an opportunity opened up for a city hanger in a nearby uncontrolled airfield and I am switching there. to make some of you jealous.. my new hangar fees will be $100 instead of $315, I chose to save the money and buy gas :).
now the transition....

About KFAR:
-- awesome FBO and great service. they will fill up the tanks and push / pull Kate out of hangar
-- for non-pilots the FBO experience is great, the passenger lounge is awesome
-- 6 runways, with 2 being 9000 ft..., 150 ft wide I can float all I want. if the winds are challenging, I have options
-- instrument approach, PAPI etc
-- controlled, Class Delta
-- taxi times at times is too long and more often than not there is just way too much traffic. pattern work becomes challenging and time consuming when I have to give way for a king air followed by a couple of 747

New Home base - D54
-- 2 runways, 3300 feet, 50 ft wide
-- no instrument, not even PAPI/VASI
-- passenger lounge is .. well lousy as compared to KFAR FBO
-- meat bombs dropping all year long
-- uncontrolled
-- I have landed/took there exactly once and there is a darn tower that got attention when turning base to final
-- next to nothing time to taxi unless there are meat bombs dropping
-- winds could be challenging for a student at times...
-- I don't know how much night flying I will do to begin with, but I want to, and as a student or a minted pilot the idea of landing at night without a glideslope and 3300 ft/ 50 ft runway kinda bothers me.

for all you experienced folks.... any thoughts on how to prepare myself for this change? I am sure with time I will get used to this like everything else. I am sure I will get pretty good at xwind take off and landing and short field takeoff and landings too (though 3300 ft might not even count as a short field)... but is there anything I can do to prepare myself for this change while Kate is getting her annual?
Click to expand...

I learned at a field that as 3000 x 75, no VASI / PAPI, trees at both ends, and had skydivers. You'll get used to it. After my first visit to Class D, 6500 x 150, out in the middle of what looked like a couple hundred acres of flatness, I was glad I learned where I did--if I could get in and out of there, then I could get in and out of most anywhere!

Having PAPI lights is nice, but not having it will force you to concentrate on your sight picture and landing attitude. Jumpers aren't usually a problem, just fly out a couple miles and come back in, they'll be on the ground; if the D is close enough, make a quick touch and go there, just don't try that at your new home.

Remember, land in the first third of the runway! Sounds like that'll be before or around Stripe #5. You will also learn speed control, which is a good thing. But even so, Cessna's are quite forgiving. My CFI took me to a nearby unobstructed 5000 x 50 field until I got good at landing before letting me try to land at home. When I moved almost immediately into the Mooney is when I learned real speed control. Now I'm at a field 3150 x 75 with a full length taxiway, and it's great--I hardly use any brakes, and make the 2000' turnoff in both directions.

Give it a try, you'll like it. You will also become a better, more careful pilot (which is a good thing).

Happy landings!

P.S.--another benefit is time--I can be in level cruise at 7500', power set and leaned, less than 15 minutes after engine start . . .
 
As long as you have at good Mx and fuel options...I love the casualness and speed of being based at an uncontrolled field. We can drive everywhere but the taxiways and runways and folks are always out and about.

We get slammed busy on the weekend and meat bombs are dropping non stop...managing the occasional chaos and learning how to deal with it is well worth the freedoms a smaller field allows.
 
iamtheari said:
My first real cross-country after I got my ticket was to D54. It was gusty, right down the runway, and the wind dropped out on me on short final just over the sewer lagoon. My heart skipped a beat that I'll never forget. Nice little airport. I'm not sure how your driving time will compare with getting to Hector Field, but your total time from parking the car to takeoff will be significantly less at West Fargo. The terminal is pleasant, actually it's what I compare all small airport terminals against, and you're more likely to meet interesting pilots and hear cool war stories at a small airport like that. You're going to love it. It's a shame it's not a half mile further west to be well clear of the Class D airspace rather than right on the line, especially since Fargo seems to think that it's a Class C (and probably should just be made a Class C but they'd actually lose airspace compared to the TRSA so probably they don't want to do that). But other than that, it's a great little airport.
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my driving time is about the same, in fact might be little less if I take 94 + county roads instead of 29 + county roads. there are a couple of pilots I know there already and they are pretty cool guys, more importantly, my mechanic is there :p

there is a discussion about turning KFAR into Class Charlie... no idea when that's going to happen though.
 
Hank S said:
I learned at a field that as 3000 x 75, no VASI / PAPI, trees at both ends, and had skydivers. You'll get used to it. After my first visit to Class D, 6500 x 150, out in the middle of what looked like a couple hundred acres of flatness, I was glad I learned where I did--if I could get in and out of there, then I could get in and out of most anywhere!

Having PAPI lights is nice, but not having it will force you to concentrate on your sight picture and landing attitude. Jumpers aren't usually a problem, just fly out a couple miles and come back in, they'll be on the ground; if the D is close enough, make a quick touch and go there, just don't try that at your new home.

Remember, land in the first third of the runway! Sounds like that'll be before or around Stripe #5. You will also learn speed control, which is a good thing. But even so, Cessna's are quite forgiving. My CFI took me to a nearby unobstructed 5000 x 50 field until I got good at landing before letting me try to land at home. When I moved almost immediately into the Mooney is when I learned real speed control. Now I'm at a field 3150 x 75 with a full length taxiway, and it's great--I hardly use any brakes, and make the 2000' turnoff in both directions.

Give it a try, you'll like it. You will also become a better, more careful pilot (which is a good thing).

Happy landings!

P.S.--another benefit is time--I can be in level cruise at 7500', power set and leaned, less than 15 minutes after engine start . . .
Click to expand...
Thanks. Class D is about 3 miles away, in fact D54 is right on the line.
 
Shawn said:
As long as you have at good Mx and fuel options...I love the casualness and speed of being based at an uncontrolled field. We can drive everywhere but the taxiways and runways and folks are always out and about.

We get slammed busy on the weekend and meat bombs are dropping non stop...managing the occasional chaos and learning how to deal with it is well worth the freedoms a smaller field allows.
Click to expand...

MX = my mechanic is there
Gas = Cheaper than KFAR even after discount
did I mention cheap hangar? :p

I am sure it will make me a better pilot, after moving from G1000 to a 6 pack, I have realized how little I actually look inside.. ASI is pretty much what I focus on most , ALT and may be a glance or two at the VSI, don't remember when I last checked the AI ... need to get the TC in my scan though. I think I hear more right rudder even in my sleep these days.
 
WannFly said:
Thanks. Class D is about 3 miles away, in fact D54 is right on the line.
Click to expand...

Our D was 4nm away. Great for a TnG or practice PAR or no gyro approach, a lifesaving thing for a VFR pilot; we need to practice it and so do the controllers.

If you have flight following, the jump pilot talks to them and gives warning to Approach and on UNICOM before letting them go, typically 2 minutes' warning. Turn away, visit the D, fly away from the field for 1 minute then turn back; the ones still in the air will be pretty visible by then.
 
iamtheari said:
I'm not sure how your driving time will compare with getting to Hector Field, but your total time from parking the car to takeoff will be significantly less at West Fargo. The terminal is pleasant, actually it's what I compare all small airport terminals against, and you're more likely to meet interesting pilots and hear cool war stories at a small airport like that. You're going to love it.
Click to expand...

Not true. It will probably take you significantly longer to get off the ground at the small airports because you end up stopping to talk to all your friends on the way to your hangar!
 
mondtster said:
It will probably take you significantly longer to get off the ground at the small airports because you end up stopping to talk to all your friends on the way to your hangar!
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ha ha very true
I just now hit 20 hrs as a student, and this is already happening. CFI gets irritated cause the pre-flight takes forever with everyone dickin around. But it is part of the fun.
 
And you can go look at the old abandoned yellow amphib sitting on the ramp there. Then, get the passport so you can start collecting stamps :)
 
Shawn said:
As long as you have at good Mx and fuel options...I love the casualness and speed of being based at an uncontrolled field. We can drive everywhere but the taxiways and runways and folks are always out and about.

We get slammed busy on the weekend and meat bombs are dropping non stop...managing the occasional chaos and learning how to deal with it is well worth the freedoms a smaller field allows.
Click to expand...
You're considering Watsonville a small field?

It may be nontowered, but it's not small. Not even close. It has the occasional jet, and three instrument approaches. It has two 5000 foot runways. It's bigger, and sometimes busier, than Palo Alto. For small, you go a few miles south to MB Academy. Even San Martin is a whole helluva lot smaller.
 
KaiGywer said:
And you can go look at the old abandoned yellow amphib sitting on the ramp there. Then, get the passport so you can start collecting stamps :)
Click to expand...
Yes, get the passport. Tons of fun. I just hit 30 stamps and need to do a safety seminar to get the T-shirt. The marginal cost of the free leather jacket is actually a bargain compared to the T-shirt. I may stop by and visit when I do my epic road trip in the J-3 to hit all the grass strips later this summer when I have a free weekend for it. I might stop by just to use the shower at West Fargo depending on how well the first half of the trip goes.
 
iamtheari said:
Yes, get the passport. Tons of fun. I just hit 30 stamps and need to do a safety seminar to get the T-shirt. The marginal cost of the free leather jacket is actually a bargain compared to the T-shirt. I may stop by and visit when I do my epic road trip in the J-3 to hit all the grass strips later this summer when I have a free weekend for it. I might stop by just to use the shower at West Fargo depending on how well the first half of the trip goes.
Click to expand...
If u are stopping by west fargo, let me know

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
WannFly said:
I am little concerned about when the DZ is active... how difficult is to do pattern work when they are dropping meat bombs? or do you not fly pattern when they are landing with all rt of way regs
Click to expand...

I used to CFI at 08A (Wetumpka AL) and they had a DZ there just to the right of runway 27 approach. A wild bunch they were. I was in the pattern one day w/ a student on about a 1/2 mile final and all of a sudden slightly above us to our left came 4-5 jumpers on their final to the DZ, moving left to right. Sometimes they (jumpers) can be pretty damn ignorant (cue James lol) and do some risky stunts like this. Lucky that they didn't get mixed up with our prop.
 
WannFly said:
Thanks. Class D is about 3 miles away, in fact D54 is right on the line.
Click to expand...
Yea, that gives you options for a couple of your concerns, crosswinds and night, if you're not feeling it you can always put it down over there and get a ride.
 
WannFly said:
I am little concerned about when the DZ is active... how difficult is to do pattern work when they are dropping meat bombs? or do you not fly pattern when they are landing with all rt of way regs
Click to expand...

Not a issue, been on both sides of that, just talk to the DZ pilots and tandem instructors. Shouldn't be a factor
 
As DZs go, they are not that active. Only one 182 so you have 25 minutes between drops and never more than 3 in the air. Keep your second radio on 120.4 so you hear their communication with approach. It's really not an issue to worry about.
 
Drop by the office and ask them where they drop. Avoid it. You'll probably find it's on the non-pattern side of the airport.

And of course listen on the radio for when they really drop.
 
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