CFI's - Logging in ForeFlight

A

AndyTowPilot

Pre-Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
42
Display Name
Display name:
Andy
Calling Fellow CFI's!

Is anyone logging their students' flights in foreflight for them and signing digitally? I know it is possible and I have played with it a bit, but I am hoping for best practices.

It seems that the student must enter the flight and then request your signature. Is there any way to "Push" a fully completed and signed flight entry to them? I much prefer to fill out all of the activities we did in the comments to assure it is worded to match the regs. I know you can reject and send revisions back and forth but it seems like a lot of extra work.

Thanks!
Andy
 
I've done it when the student sends a request. I'm not a ForeFlight user but do have a FF account that I have to log into to sign a logbook. I can also add comments at that time. I tell the student in advance how many hours, landings etc. and I basically just verify correct information. I really liked it at checkride time as the 8710 record of pilot time was already accurately filled out.

I think there is a way to "push" but at the same time it teaches the student that logging is his responsibility when he submits a request.

I've also digitally signed on the spot flight reviews.

I'm not sure I'm doing it the optimal way, but it works.
 
If you are with the student, enter the flight, add comments, then sign right on his/her iPad. Once signed no mods to the entry unless the signature is removed. You can share the logbook entry to your Foreflight log if you want.
 
None of my students currently use FF, but I would definitely use this functionality if they did.
 
Thanks everyone for responses - any ideas on pushing a log entry to a student?
 
I'm not a CFI, nor do I use FF, but couldn't you just use the student's ipad during debrief and make the entry yourself?
 
AndyTowPilot said:
Calling Fellow CFI's!

Is anyone logging their students' flights in foreflight for them and signing digitally? I know it is possible and I have played with it a bit, but I am hoping for best practices.

It seems that the student must enter the flight and then request your signature. Is there any way to "Push" a fully completed and signed flight entry to them? I much prefer to fill out all of the activities we did in the comments to assure it is worded to match the regs. I know you can reject and send revisions back and forth but it seems like a lot of extra work.

Thanks!
Andy
Click to expand...
What you have found us how Foreflight handles it. No "push" and no automatic entry of the flight in your own logbook. You can "push" endorsements but not ordinary dual flights. You can, of course, physically enter the flight on their iPad or iPhone.

Personally, I think the Foreflight logbook has some limitations because it is simply not their core function. More of a convenience. MyFlightBook, for example, can do what you want but logbook is only what it does.
 
Rgbeard said:
Are paper logbooks THAT dead? I sure like mine.
Click to expand...

I use paper, but that probably explains why I'm confused as to why they aren't just filling out the form in person. :cool:
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I like paper logs, and backup with scanners to PDF files.

I would *NOT* depend solely on any electronic medium with out complete backups of some kind, and at that I'd probably print the backups anyway.

I know first-hand how easy it is for a company to go under and abandon their subscriber base.
 
Flight instruction is a service business. If a student, the customer, wishes to use a electronic logbook, then there's nothing wrong with trying to accommodate a reasonable request. Seems like that's what the OP is trying to do.
 
Rgbeard said:
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I like paper logs, and backup with scanners to PDF files.

I would *NOT* depend solely on any electronic medium with out complete backups of some kind, and at that I'd probably print the backups anyway.

I know first-hand how easy it is for a company to go under and abandon their subscriber base.
Click to expand...
On the YMMV front, I've been digitally logging since the days of DOS. Originally, of course, in tandem with paper. I've watched the development through the years. At this point my only logbook is electronic. I went full digital for my own logging about 9 years ago. I kept my paper logbook for entries requiring someone else's signature for another few years until I was satisfied with its validity in the eyes of the FAA. I still keep paper, but only as an option for instructors who feel uncomfortable with digitally signing. The last two signatures in my logbook are from 2017 and 2019.

I've been using a digital log from the same company since 2006. in addition to being hosted on the app's site is backed up to my own cloud nightly, so I'm not particularly concerned about the company going under. I figure it's more secure from loss or destruction than my paper one.

I'm not trying to convince you. There's nothing inherently wrong with the decision to use paper. Or the decision to go digital. There's only personal preference.
 
SkyChaser said:
I use paper, but that probably explains why I'm confused as to why they aren't just filling out the form in person. :cool:
Click to expand...
There is really no reason not to fill it in right there, whether paper or plastic. As is usual with these things, computerization adds some efficiencies. How important they are varies with the person, There are a few potential ones. If I can create an entry in my student's logbook remotely, I can do it later at leisure and make it more complete in terms of ensuring it meets requirements. There's also more "space" to write. Not that big a deal. But the second efficiency - which the OP is also asking about - is avoiding the need for creating a separate entry for the instructor's own records.
 
Walboy said:
Flight instruction is a service business. If a student, the customer, wishes to use a electronic logbook, then there's nothing wrong with trying to accommodate a reasonable request. Seems like that's what the OP is trying to do.
Click to expand...

Sure, if the student wants to pay my hourly rate to acquaint myself with the electronic logbook they have chosen and want me to use.
 
Last edited:
Clip4 said:
Sure, if the student wants to pay my hourly rate to acquaint myself with the electronic logbook they have chosen and want me to use.
Click to expand...

Really? Do you also charge them for lesson prep you do the night before? If you spend 30 minutes going over lazy 8's by yourself because you haven't taught them in a while, you charge them an additional half hour?

What if they have a type of HSI in that you've never used, do you charge them for you reading through the manual prior to the flight?

"Sorry, I don't do flights with any equipment or software I'm unfamiliar with, unless you will pay me for my time to become familiar with them."

At least the way I see it, my job as an instructor is to learn the equipment for any flight I accept. That's part of the cost of doing business. Or, I can turn down the flight. That's my choice.
 
I have to say that while I love electronic logbooks as a pilot, I hate them as an instructor. Number one reason is autocorrect on the comments. HSI become HIS, for example. Number two reason is having to switch within the keyboards to get dashes or commas or other punctuation. Number three reason is that each app has the field in a different order, with a different way of entering the time, and a different signing method.

It's much much quicker to just write in a paper logbook.
 
RussR said:
I have to say that while I love electronic logbooks as a pilot, I hate them as an instructor. Number one reason is autocorrect on the comments. HSI become HIS, for example. Number two reason is having to switch within the keyboards to get dashes or commas or other punctuation. Number three reason is that each app has the field in a different order, with a different way of entering the time, and a different signing method.

It's much much quicker to just write in a paper logbook.
Click to expand...
Charge them extra to sign their eLog like @Clip4 :D

(That's nothing. I can't type accurately if my life depends on it so I hate typing on a phone or tablet, period. Plus I use both iOS and Android which have quite different secondary level keys and ways of getting to them. But I don't mind. So stop whining!)
 
midlifeflyer said:
What you have found us how Foreflight handles it. No "push" and no automatic entry of the flight in your own logbook. You can "push" endorsements but not ordinary dual flights. You can, of course, physically enter the flight on their iPad or iPhone.

Personally, I think the Foreflight logbook has some limitations because it is simply not their core function. More of a convenience. MyFlightBook, for example, can do what you want but logbook is only what it does.
Click to expand...

Good point. I am a fulltime software guy and that makes total sense. Logging is not their core competency.

Walboy said:
Flight instruction is a service business. If a student, the customer, wishes to use a electronic logbook, then there's nothing wrong with trying to accommodate a reasonable request. Seems like that's what the OP is trying to do.
Click to expand...

^This. I am huge on customer experience no matter what service I am providing.

Clip4 said:
Sure, if the student wants to pay my hourly rate to acquaint myself with the electronic logbook they have chosen and want me to use.
Click to expand...

^To my point above, I respectfully see it differently. As another person mentioned, I should be responsible to be studied up on student equipment and requested maneuvers/procedures. I do not instruct at a flight school - only in owner's airplanes. To that end, it is my plan to show up prepared to work on the student's equipment. Anything I learn is to MY benefit. Electronic logs, glass panels, everything!. They ARE the customer.
 
Clip4 said:
Sure, if the student wants to pay my hourly rate to acquaint myself with the electronic logbook they have chosen and want me to use.
Click to expand...
Since in this case you are the student doing continual learning to keep current, you should be the one paying your student to teach you how to use F Flight, IPad, etc.
 
Shouldn't the CFI be the one teaching the students how to use all of the latest logging technologies?
 
WDD said:
Shouldn't the CFI be the one teaching the students how to use all of the latest logging technologies?
Click to expand...
Not really. There are too many choices out there. If a student asks for my recommendation, I'll give it. If the student chooses one I happen to know, I'll help. If it's one I don't know, it's not my choice, although if it allows me to set up a free account, I will usually learn it enough to help. But I don't expect that from most CFIs any more than I expect them to know how to use every EFB out there.

No, I'm not agreeing with Clip4. I will sign anyone's electronic logbook. That takes very little time to learn how to do and doesn't require the CFI to actually use it. And no, I don't put it in the same category as teaching flight instruments and avionics. AFAIK, no one has ever busted a clearance/instruction, gotten a pilot deviation, or lost control trying to figure out how to use their logbook.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Not really. There are too many choices out there. If a student asks for my recommendation, I'll give it. If the student chooses one I happen to know, I'll help. If it's one I don't know, it's not my choice, although if it allows me to set up a free account, I will usually learn it enough to help. But I don't expect that from most CFIs any more than I expect them to know how to use every EFB out there.

No, I'm not agreeing with Clip4. I will sign anyone's electronic logbook. That takes very little time to learn how to do and doesn't require the CFI to actually use it. And no, I don't put it in the same category as teaching flight instruments and avionics. AFAIK, no one has ever busted a clearance/instruction, gotten a pilot deviation, or lost control trying to figure out how to use their logbook.
Click to expand...

I am not saying I won’t sign an e-logbook. I am saying I am not spending my time for free figuring the system you selected.

YOU make it easy and it will get done. The easiest way is for YOU to make the entries and the CFI endorse them all at one time at the end of training. YOU need to present the procedure to get that done and make it easy for the CFI.

Dog ate paper logbook and your IPAD fell in the lake, and the Cloud god can’t find your e-records, I have will have the information backed up for you in my logbook and your training folder.
 
Last edited:
Rgbeard said:
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I like paper logs, and backup with scanners to PDF files.

I would *NOT* depend solely on any electronic medium with out complete backups of some kind, and at that I'd probably print the backups anyway.

I know first-hand how easy it is for a company to go under and abandon their subscriber base.
Click to expand...

I don't want to admit how many times I've purchased digital media only to have the service go under. My log book is far more important than some downloads of Foreigner or Blondie so if I'm still upset about losing those...

I figure my logbook is worth something like 40K and I'm still low time. I couldn't imagine losing one that will get you that gig you've been working for most of your life.

Paper is king, digital is my second choice and mostly for fun and ease of pulling reports but scanned and secured printouts are a must.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top