CFII before you CFI

MauleSkinner said:
But are you still arguing that you have to have the CFI-A in order to get that instrument time?
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what I am arguing is the typical puppy mill student who gets the II because the A then becomes an add on, which is where this thread started.
 
Clip4 said:
what I am arguing is the typical puppy mill student who gets the II because the A then becomes an add on, which is where this thread started.
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Ok...so if you’re not responding to my posts, I’d suggest not quoting them.
 
The instructor I used for my instrument rating took this route. Assuming he got his ratings just before 9/11/2001, from what I could read between the lines.

He ran accelerated instrument trainings and really enjoyed that.



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I get it, some folks may not want to teach others to fly but are ok with teaching pilots to fly instruments...
 
Fast Leroy said:
I get it, some folks may not want to teach others to fly but are ok with teaching pilots to fly instruments...
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That's were I was when I first did my flight instructor training. As I mentioned, the club did not have a complex single. I had gone elsewhere to do my commercial but didn't want to do that all over again for my CFI. I had had my instrument rating for some time and was very proficient. I flew with other instrument pilots as a safety pilot and knew I enjoyed helping others become better instrument pilots. So I set out to do my Instrument-Airplane as my initial flight instructor certificate, knowing that it might be a while before I did my single engine CFI add-on.

It worked out fine, because my club used a Cessna 150 to do primary instruction, and I had no interest in squeezing into one. I discovered I really enjoying teaching instruments and trained several other members of the club.
 
Shuswap BC said:
Some just enjoy it, they love to fly, share their vast experience, make their own hours, be home every night, and not a glorified bus driver like an airline pilot is. They can buy their own plane, or work with people who already own like myself. I pay her $50/hour, which is significantly more than the average working stiff makes. She owns a 172, but is more than happy to fly with me and others in whatever we own. Occasionally over the years, I have flown to her home airport, parked whatever I owned at the time, opting to get in some 172 time in her plane. She has social skill, experience, and common sense that nobody despite their designation has at age 19 to 24 which is the common instructor. Don't tell me about what the book says to do when icing up, tell me what you did the dozens of times you experienced it yourself. Dead stick to 1500 feet of grass should not even make the instructor sweat, but just fly with a smile, come in slightly high, add a side slip to scrub the last bit of altitude and straighten out at 30' agl and plop it down like it was a walk in the park. Mountain flying is nothing at all, just another normal day, as is the landing on a beach beside some lake. Perfectly flat lake landing is so smooth, or windy day with chop and a tricky taxi to the dock with waves slapping the floats and winds pushing the plane are all handled in stride. IFR in actual IFR is just the regular flight for them, not just 50 hours of hood time in severe clear. By the time I got my commercial I was a way better pilot than one of the instructors was at the school. We all have to make our own choices in life, look for a true teacher, and focus less on some letters in a log book. And you young people who are out there learning to fly, remember that instructor is not your boss, you're paying his salary, so speak up and make suggestions. If your airport has a short, infrequently used runway, with a nice crosswind happening while your going to fly, request it....not that fancy 80' wide by 5,000' long paved monstrosity that has a head wind, which teaches you nothing. A dozen touch and goes on the crosswind 2,100' runway is actually teaching you something. When time to do your solo xc, ask to pick your own destinations, make it an all day adventure, it requires a fuel stop, and a place to eat lunch, beautiful scenery, and when you land back at home days end you just added 6 or 7 hours to your log book. I requested my own xc, it was granted....i logged 7.2 hours, had a fabulous lunch, and fondly remember it still 31 years later. It was a 4 stop day, I got fuel twice because I would rather have more than enough. Sat out on a patio eating a burger, drinking a milkshake watching others come and go. Flew over a beautiful lake, remember watching the boaters and people water skiing, I dropped into slow flight so I would have more time to take it all in because I was only doing 60 knots and dragging flaps. One of my stops was 1800 feet of runway and it was crosswind that day, both ends mean if you screwed up there was no area to roll out into, just water to swim in after you crashed through the 4' tall fence. Be your own advocate and choose to make yourself a better pilot. If an airport is not too busy, when the tower gives you some instructions, say no, and ask for your choice. They are an advisory, not God, and 99.9% of the time they are happy to grant you your wish on a slow day. If they say use 15, ask for 23 instead, ultimately you are responsible for your own education, it doesn't matter if you are becoming a truck driver, surgeon, or pilot.
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That was fun just to read, thank you!
 
labbadabba said:
Has anyone done their CFII prior to doing their CFI? This essentially makes the initial CFI an Add-on. I guess a lot of the big 141s do this but I was kinda shocked that it was a thing but I guess it makes sense. I can get my Commercial Multi with a single add-on if I really wanted...
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I looked into this. Either way you go through the FSDO and you cover the FOI. The choice is about the rest of material, and what you think you would be better at explaining.

I think the reason the big pilot schools trend towards the CFII as initial, is that checkride is more focused on procedure and regulations than concepts. This is more reliably teachable to a large population in a classroom.

The CFI-Initial opens up more abstract topics like aerodynamics. I think a good examiner could easily rip a CFI candidate apart who had memorized the flight school talking points, but didn't have a full understanding of what is really going on when an airplane stalls, etc... Also there is flying all of the VFR maneuvers, chandelle, lazy 8.. etc... Instrument flying is less focused on stick and rudder skills, and more focused on procedure and process. Again, one of these is more teachable in a classroom.
 
Fast Leroy said:
I get it, some folks may not want to teach others to fly but are ok with teaching pilots to fly instruments...
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I've thought about getting a CFII for that very reason. I don't want to teach anybody to fly from scratch, but I wouldn't mind teaching instruments.
 
BrianNC said:
I've thought about getting a CFII for that very reason. I don't want to teach anybody to fly from scratch, but I wouldn't mind teaching instruments.
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What about the guy that wants an IPC and a flight review at the same time? Or a flight review and to knock the rust off?
I haven't looked it up. But can a CFII only do a flight review? If not, this is fairly limiting.

What about commercial training, complex/hp endorsements or general checkouts in "new to them" aircraft?

There is more out there than Private pilot candidates.
 
I don't have a strong opinion either way. If life circumstances or the situation at hand somehow suggests that one before the other is a more beneficial path, so be it.

The CFI-IA on its own is rather limiting, but it could be argued that a CFI-ASE (sans IA) is as well. The best case scenario, of course, is to have both; that is, if one is looking to do the full gamut of instruction.
 
ja_user said:
What about the guy that wants an IPC and a flight review at the same time? Or a flight review and to knock the rust off?
I haven't looked it up. But can a CFII only do a flight review? If not, this is fairly limiting.

What about commercial training, complex/hp endorsements or general checkouts in "new to them" aircraft?

There is more out there than Private pilot candidates.
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Still not worth another oral/checkride/studying to me. I know a couple of people with only a CFII and with their own plane that stay booked doing an accelerated instrument rating once or twice a month and IPCs. If I got it that’s what I’d shoot for.
 
This actually makes sense to me.

If I did take up a hobby of flight instruction, I could see teaching Instrument, but I don't think I'd enjoy primary instruction.
 
BrianNC said:
Still not worth another oral/checkride/studying to me. I know a couple of people with only a CFII and with their own plane that stay booked doing an accelerated instrument rating once or twice a month and IPCs. If I got it that’s what I’d shoot for.
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To each their own.. Just pointing out that it isn't just IFR or Private, which everyone seems to compare :)
 
I did CFII, then MEI and CFI last. Well, I guess ATP was technically last.
 
My instructor is also suggesting I do cfii before cfi. The reason being the material of cfi will be a little easier as an add on.
 
texasclouds said:
My instructor is also suggesting I do cfii before cfi. The reason being the material of cfi will be a little easier as an add on.
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It’s not easier, the same material is covered. It may feel easier since you’d have two checkrides of similar length instead of one really long and challenging one and one really short and easy one.
 
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