CFI vs other flying jobs

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Zak90

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Zak90
So im new to this whole thing here, my name is Zak and im 29 years old with 350tt trying to find a flying job for the last year or so. I started CFI training in March and took my CFI initial exam in August and bombed the oral (1st NOD) took it again on September 23rd and no joy (2nd NOD). Heres the thing... Im a very good stick and rudder pilot i can fly the hell out of a 172 or anything im able get my hands on but i suck dick at the technical crap or trying to explain how anything works. I was only really doing the CFI cause i had a job lined up and i was relying heavily on my flying skills to salvage my shotty ground game; but i never even got to the flying part. I did a small stint at county a while ago so any part 135 gig or beyond is not possible at the moment. I have literally no money left and am dying to find anything that pays. Any leads or info on jobs would be great. Willing to relocate anywhere in the US and willing to except any pay amount. Don't really wanna give up on flying but if i do i end up a personal trainer full time but i dont feel like wearing sweats and a tank to work every day yelling at high school/college kids to stop half repping 225 on bench and end up almost killing themselves. I strive for a little bit more than that in life. Any info or help greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
If you are willing to move, there are jobs out there.
 
Zak90 said:
So im new to this whole thing here, my name is Zak and im 29 years old with 350tt trying to find a flying job for the last year or so. I started CFI training in March and took my CFI initial exam in August and bombed the oral (1st NOD) took it again on September 23rd and no joy (2nd NOD). Heres the thing... Im a very good stick and rudder pilot i can fly the hell out of a 172 or anything im able get my hands on but i suck dick at the technical crap or trying to explain how anything works. I was only really doing the CFI cause i had a job lined up and i was relying heavily on my flying skills to salvage my shotty ground game; but i never even got to the flying part. I did a small stint at county a while ago so any part 135 gig or beyond is not possible at the moment. I have literally no money left and am dying to find anything that pays. Any leads or info on jobs would be great. Willing to relocate anywhere in the US and willing to except any pay amount. Don't really wanna give up on flying but if i do i end up a personal trainer full time but i dont feel like wearing sweats and a tank to work every day yelling at high school/college kids to stop half repping 225 on bench and end up almost killing themselves. I strive for a little bit more than that in life. Any info or help greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Oh my.
 
Isn’t jump pilot, banner towing, pipeline patrol a typical type of flying with this sort of background?
 
Clip4 said:
Oh my.
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That’s a lot of help.

I know it might be hard to remember, but you were once a young, novice instructor walking in his same shoes...
 
Ryanb said:
That’s a lot of help.

I know it might be hard to remember, but you were once a young, novice instructor walking in his same shoes...
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Seriously ? Do we know that @Clip4 was convicted of a crime and sentenced to jail time and failed his CFI checkride on the oral portion twice?
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Isn’t jump pilot, banner towing, pipeline patrol a typical type of flying with this sort of background?
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Ive been having a hard time finding something that takes you with 350. Most want above 500 and or multi, tailwheel, and previous experience.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Isn’t jump pilot, banner towing, pipeline patrol a typical type of flying with this sort of background?
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What type of background? Low time, yes

The first job is the hardest, mostly all networking. But how did you think your flying would get you through the CFI? Thats known as the hardest ride in ones career
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Seriously ? Do we know that @Clip4 was convicted of a crime and sentenced to jail time and failed his CFI checkride on the oral portion twice?
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Did I say he did?

I was referring to the idea that he was once a young, low time instructor looking for work. It’s clear this fella has a few roadblocks in his path, but simply saying ‘oh my’ isn’t very helpful in pointing someone in the right direction.
 
Ryanb said:
Did I say he did?
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Sorry if I misunderstood the “walking in his same shoes” part. It strikes me that the criminal conviction may be a significant issue in finding a job. I suspect that is what Clip4 was reacting to.

But I’ve never been on that job market, so perhaps it doesn’t matter that much ?

I will also note that I have no idea what the OP’s conviction was for. It may have been for some nonsense victimless crime, in which case I certainly hope it has minimal impact on the job search. I was just speaking objectively of the possible impact.
 
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PeterNSteinmetz said:
Sorry if I misunderstood the “walking in his same shoes” part. It strikes me that the criminal conviction may be a significant issue in finding a job. I suspect that is what Clip4 was reacting to.

But I’ve never been on that job market, so perhaps it doesn’t matter that much ?
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No worries and likely so. I should’ve been more clear.
 
Zak90 said:
So im new to this whole thing here, my name is Zak and im 29 years old...
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Nothing is out of reach if you really want it, but you need to start with growing up! If, like you say, you're willing to go anywhere in the US, there are plenty of jobs out there.

If you really want a flying job, there's those too for people just like you. The pay sucks and you'll be lucky if you can make a living, but you will get flight hours.

Learn to be a little more humble, study a little harder, realize and accept that 'you're not all that' and get on with a productive healthy lifestyle. Don't give up on the CFI, heck, some of us even managed to get past it, and it will help to open some doors for you if you're in the right place at the right time. Plus you have that whole, 'willing to go anywhere attitude' to back you.

Put a little more effort in and you'll make it.

Best of luck to you.

PS: jsfirm.com
 
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Ryanb said:
Did I say he did?

I was referring to the idea that he was once a young, low time instructor looking for work. It’s clear this fella has a few roadblocks in his path, but simply saying ‘oh my’ isn’t very helpful in pointing someone in the right direction.
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You do know that jail time today for a first offense is unusual? There is more to this guy than you realize.
 
Yeah CFI may be a way to a paying flying job, but if you don’t really want to teach, please don’t. We’ve all probably had the negative experiences with CFIs that really don’t want to be there.
 
I’m glad you have such a high opinion of your flying skills , there are jobs out there , you might try to get with a survey company that flys 172s.
 
James331 said:
As a research neurologist perhaps you could look into what would make you think think something at that level of stupid.
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That is an ad hominem attack, which is not only a logical fallacy, but in public fora, rude.

I'll let it pass this once if you want to actually comment on the content and point out why a person should not consider that a criminal conviction might impair someone's ability to get the job they want. I don't know about this market, but in many markets, convictions, even for nonsense crimes, are a problem.

Regarding failing twice, I have no experience. Generally, failing a test twice is not a good thing, but I know the CFI check ride is hard and maybe failing twice is not unusual -- please inform me.
 
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dmspilot said:
Relying on your flying skill on a CFI checkride is a bad strategy considering your flying skill is not what's being tested. Look at the PTS.
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Yes, I was just in some training for a CFI and was told that your ability to teach is what is being tested. It is assumed that you know how to fly to a commercial standard.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
That is an ad hominem attack, which is not only a logical fallacy, but in public fora, rude.

I'll let it pass this once if you want to actually comment on the content and point out why a person should not consider that a criminal conviction might impair someone's ability to get the job they want. I don't know about this market, but in many markets, convictions, even for nonsense crimes, are a problem.

Regarding failing twice, I have no experience. Generally, failing a test twice is not a good thing, but I know the CFI check ride is hard and maybe failing twice is not unusual -- please inform me.
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And stereotyping a huge lot of professional pilots on a aviation group was a compliment to your intelligence?

Getting back on track, failing a initial CFI is not uncommon, I passed mine but went in 75% expecting to fail and have to retest, now going into it thinking your flying skills were going to bail you out of not having the material down, on a ride where frankly shy of crashing the plane the air work isn’t as important as long as you could educate on how you messed the maneuver up, that’s odd.

Having a criminal conviction doesn’t help, not sure what it is or if it will show up on a background check, that’s something the guy is going to have to figure out, but if he actually went to jail that’s not a good sign at all, though he still might be able to do well at places that don’t run a background.

If I was going to make a suggestion to OP, first and foremost would be to engage brain and always move with purpose, even when it means moving a little slower.
Two check out Namibia, Botswana, etc, depending on the mood they have been open to greenhorn CPLs and the lifestyle is a little less stuck up compared to the US.

There are any threads on it, but this should start you off
https://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/433420-maun-botswana-essential-guide-65.html

Outside from that try to get into a DZ, offer to ferry planes on barnstormers and the like, etc etc
 
OK, so the banner tow / jump ad says they want 500 hours, a PHD, and the ability to **** gold on command. Does that mean that the pilot they end up hiring is going to meet all those requirements? Perhaps, perhaps not. That's what they want, not what they are willing to settle for. Send in your resume.
 
James331 said:
And stereotyping a huge lot of professional pilots on a aviation group
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Normally stereotyping refers to ignoring the particulars pertaining to an individual in favor of making judgements based on generalities.

I fail to see how this is an example of that. We don’t really know much about the OP other than he is 29 years old, may have very good stick and rudder skills (per self report), has been sentenced to some jail time, and failed the checkride twice.

You asked what of his background might indicate he would have a problem finding a job as a professional pilot?

I responded that the jail time and failing twice were two such items.

You then said that was a stupid thought.

In this last post it strikes me we agree that the jail time is likely to create some issues with finding a job.

About 10% of people might be expected to fail the checkride twice, so while not terribly rare it is less common and those results suggest the OP is in the bottom decile of CFI teaching ability.

So based on those facts and agreement, I honestly don’t see why such an opinion or evaluation is viewed as being so terribly offensive to other posters on an aviation board. It is unclear why a comment about the OP would be perceived as applying to more than the OP in the first place. Unless the majority or a substantial fraction of pilots here have been sentenced to jail time and failed their CFI checkrides two of more times. But I don’t believe that is the case.

But we really don’t know much about the OP and he could provide more information if he desires more accurate evaluation.
 
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I see now from my initial post here that someone might think I was trying to imply that people doing pipeline patrol, banner towing, or jump piloting had done jail time or failed their checkrides.

But that is technically an inversion of what I said. I said that people who had that background were more likely to be able to be that type of pilot.

I do not know the actual numbers here and would be happy to enlightened. I was under the impression that if you have that type of background you are more likely to be able to get that type of job.

Whether that implies that the population of such pilots is more likely to have a criminal background or have failed checkride repeatedly to an important degree would depend on the size of the respective populations and the distribution of those backgrounds in the population of pilots as a whole.
 
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If you have a dislike for "technical crap", "explaining how things work", and making sure students "don't kill themselves", then being a CFI is not for you. (That's 99.99% of the job.)
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Normally stereotyping refers to ignoring the particulars pertaining to an individual in favor of making judgements based on generalities.

I fail to see how this is an example of that. We don’t really know much about the OP other than he is 29 years old, may have very good stick and rudder skills (per self report), has been sentenced to some jail time, and failed the checkride twice.

You asked what of his background might indicate he would have a problem finding a job as a professional pilot?

I responded that the jail time and failing twice were two such items.

You then said that was a stupid thought.

In this last post it strikes me we agree that the jail time is likely to create some issues with finding a job.

About 10% of people might be expected to fail the checkride twice, so while not terribly rare it is less common and those results suggest the OP is in the bottom decile of CFI teaching ability.

So based on those facts and agreement, I honestly don’t see why such an opinion or evaluation is viewed as being so terribly offensive to other posters on an aviation board. It is unclear why a comment about the OP would be perceived as applying to more than the OP in the first place. Unless the majority or a substantial fraction of pilots here have been sentenced to jail time and failed their CFI checkrides two of more times. But I don’t believe that is the case.

But we really don’t know much about the OP and he could provide more information if he desires more accurate evaluation.
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So how long have you professorially been working in the industry?
 
kath said:
If you have a dislike for "technical crap", "explaining how things work", and making sure students "don't kill themselves", then being a CFI is not for you. (That's 99.99% of the job.)
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I’d also suggest considering how explaining how the technical crap works in two checkrides a year for the rest of your career is going to go.

The regionals may be desperate for warm bodies, but they still have to pass the checkrides.
 
Zak ask yourself what you want to do and why do you want to do it. You can overcome many things by hard work and demonstrating you have learned and applied your life experiences. As several folks have said above 99% of being a CFI involves things at which you are not good. Your conviction and having served time is going to give nearly all potential employers concern, especially in aviation where accountability and trust are paramount.

If you are going to make the necessary changes you can succeed. Your actions will form the lens through which you are viewed and evaluated. Actions, not words, will determine your ultimate level of achievement.

Luck favors the prepared so be prepared.
 
Zak90 said:
So im new to this whole thing here, my name is Zak and im 29 years old with 350tt trying to find a flying job for the last year or so. I started CFI training in March and took my CFI initial exam in August and bombed the oral (1st NOD) took it again on September 23rd and no joy (2nd NOD). Heres the thing... Im a very good stick and rudder pilot i can fly the hell out of a 172 or anything im able get my hands on but i suck dick at the technical crap or trying to explain how anything works. I was only really doing the CFI cause i had a job lined up and i was relying heavily on my flying skills to salvage my shotty ground game; but i never even got to the flying part. I did a small stint at county a while ago so any part 135 gig or beyond is not possible at the moment. I have literally no money left and am dying to find anything that pays. Any leads or info on jobs would be great. Willing to relocate anywhere in the US and willing to except any pay amount. Don't really wanna give up on flying but if i do i end up a personal trainer full time but i dont feel like wearing sweats and a tank to work every day yelling at high school/college kids to stop half repping 225 on bench and end up almost killing themselves. I strive for a little bit more than that in life. Any info or help greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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I don't know what you mean by "technical crap", but if you are referring to aviation technology, then I am afraid you might be looking at the wrong career. If I were a potential employer, I would not waste any time with someone who had issues with "technical crap" and "shotty ground game". Even if instructing was not your thing, failing the checkride twice is a warning flag, both to yourself as well as your employer.

You can't become good at something until you understand how it works, and you don't really understand how it works until you can explain it to someone.
 
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