CFI Insurance

[Jocww]

I am a newly minted CFI and while the club I teach at will have me under their policy. I am also applying to a few other places, but they are requiring me to have my own insurance. I have seen the two big ones NAFI, and SAFE. I also see AOPA has their own as well. My question is which one is best to get. I dont have all my wings done to get the big discount from SAFE. They claim to be better than the other two, but of course they are going to claim that. So opinons and thoughts please.

Thank you

 

[Clip4]

1st, I encourage you not to accept a club’s statement you are covered for instructing under their policy and I would want to read that policy and make that determination.

Starr, Avemco, and AIG are the companies used by SAFE, NAFI, and AOPA. The SAFE policy is the most comprehensive and covers the most a wide range of aircraft from UAVs to multi engine sea planes with an option for pressurized aircraft. So I suppose reasonably they can claim they are the best.

As a new CFI instructing primary students, there really isn’t that much difference between the 3. What you are really paying for is lawyers to represent you in the event of an accident and give up enough money for people to leave you be.

What you may notice in the pricing and limits is aviation insurance companies are very willing to insure damage to stuff and not very willing to insure against injury. Stuff is easily replaced and usually insured by another company. It is a negotiation. People are another story. They aren’t easily replaced.

I suggest you carry hull coverage of 33% of the value of the aircraft you expect to fly and elect bodily injury to the maximum the policy allows. Previous instruction liability is a feature I like in a policy.

 

[midlifeflyer]

1st, I encourage you not to accept a club’s statement you are covered for instructing under their policy and I would want to read that policy and make that determination.

Starr, Avemco, and AIG are the companies used by SAFE, NAFI, and AOPA. The SAFE policy is the most comprehensive and covers the most a wide range of aircraft from UAVs to multi engine sea planes with an option for pressurized aircraft. So I suppose reasonably they can claim they are the best.

As a new CFI instructing primary students, there really isn’t that much difference between the 3. What you are really paying for is lawyers to represent you in the event of an accident and give up enough money for people to leave you be.

The only caution I would add is to avoid AVEMCO unless it’s through NAFI membership. The non-NAFI policy for some reason excludes instructor malpractice. The NAFI version does not.

And if you don’t already know (and care), NAFI and SAFE membership have a 1/3 Foreflight discount.

 

[Jocww]

I do like that they carry the instructor malpractice/liability. So out of the 3 I am really looking at SAFE and a little bit at NAFI and lastly AOPA. I am still waiting to hear back if I should get an umbrella policy that has my house and cars. Not sure if that would help in aircraft related incident. I will see if I can get the 33% coverage. Although for the planes outside of the club they arent too terribly expensive they are both 152s.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I do like that they carry the instructor malpractice/liability. So out of the 3 I am really looking at SAFE and a little bit at NAFI and lastly AOPA. I am still waiting to hear back if I should get an umbrella policy that has my house and cars. Not sure if that would help in aircraft related incident. I will see if I can get the 33% coverage. Although for the planes outside of the club they arent too terribly expensive they are both 152s.

The typical umbrella policy excludes general aviation. If you can get one that does, great.

 

[brcase]

I do like that they carry the instructor malpractice/liability. So out of the 3 I am really looking at SAFE and a little bit at NAFI and lastly AOPA. I am still waiting to hear back if I should get an umbrella policy that has my house and cars. Not sure if that would help in aircraft related incident. I will see if I can get the 33% coverage. Although for the planes outside of the club they arent too terribly expensive they are both 152s.

There are many people way more qualified to answer these questions than I , but here is my amateur take on it.

One of dirty secrets of injury insurance and part of the reason health insurance is so expensive is when someone injured, their health insurance will take the major hit for medical bills. Then the insurance company will go after any injury insurance any involved parties have, Usually but not always this money get split 3 ways between the injured party, the Lawyers, and the Medical insurance company.
If have a client that you know does not have medical insurance, you may want to counsel them and/or not fly with them as they are essentially uncovered for any major medical injury.

Again strongly recommend professional advice.
But generally your primary house and your 401K are protected from litigation. So your liability/injury insurance should be enough to cover any remaining assets you have to make it more attractive for a litigant to take the insurances money and run rather than go after your assets and have the insurance company use your insurance money to defend you.

Brian

 

[tlglenn]

Make sure your policy will cover you when your student is soloing under your signature.

 

[Pinecone]

There are many people way more qualified to answer these questions than I , but here is my amateur take on it.

One of dirty secrets of injury insurance and part of the reason health insurance is so expensive is when someone injured, their health insurance will take the major hit for medical bills. Then the insurance company will go after any injury insurance any involved parties have, Usually but not always this money get split 3 ways between the injured party, the Lawyers, and the Medical insurance company.
If have a client that you know does not have medical insurance, you may want to counsel them and/or not fly with them as they are essentially uncovered for any major medical injury.

Again strongly recommend professional advice.
But generally your primary house and your 401K are protected from litigation. So your liability/injury insurance should be enough to cover any remaining assets you have to make it more attractive for a litigant to take the insurances money and run rather than go after your assets and have the insurance company use your insurance money to defend you.

Brian

That is my experience. My health insurance paid all the bills. They split the $100,000 limit with me, 80/20. They kept the 80% obviously.

 

[schmookeeg]

Most CFIs I know who are just starting out have the cash reserves of a tortilla. Are you insuring against a judgement that will never be pursued?

 

[Jim_CAK]

The only caution I would add is to avoid AVEMCO unless it’s through NAFI membership. The non-NAFI policy for some reason excludes instructor malpractice. The NAFI version does not.

And if you don’t already know (and care), NAFI and SAFE membership have a 1/3 Foreflight discount.

Thanks Mark. I am looking at CFI insurance thru NAFI.

 

[Clip4]

Most CFIs I know who are just starting out have the cash reserves of a tortilla. Are you insuring against a judgement that will never be pursued?

Even if you are upside down in debt and totally not liable in a lawsuit, you still need a lawyer to defend you and they don’t work for free.

3- 20 years is the time limit to collect that judgement depending on the jurisdiction, provided you don’t declare bankruptcy to discharge it.

 

[Clip4]

There are many people way more qualified to answer these questions than I , but here is my amateur take on it.

One of dirty secrets of injury insurance and part of the reason health insurance is so expensive is when someone injured, their health insurance will take the major hit for medical bills. Then the insurance company will go after any injury insurance any involved parties have, Usually but not always this money get split 3 ways between the injured party, the Lawyers, and the Medical insurance company.
If have a client that you know does not have medical insurance, you may want to counsel them and/or not fly with them as they are essentially uncovered for any major medical injury.

Again strongly recommend professional advice.
But generally your primary house and your 401K are protected from litigation. So your liability/injury insurance should be enough to cover any remaining assets you have to make it more attractive for a litigant to take the insurances money and run rather than go after your assets and have the insurance company use your insurance money to defend you.

Brian

Your house may be totally protected, partially protected, or not protected variable with each state. As examples, NJ and PA none of your homes value is protected. In KY, only $5000 is protected. IRAs, 401ks, social security, disability and defined pensions are protected. Wages and bank accounts are not protected and a creditor can get a charging order against a partner of an LLC.

If anyone has information on Domestic Asset Protection Trusts and if the courts are recognizing them please post.

 

[DesertNomad]

I am a newly minted CFI and while the club I teach at will have me under their policy. I am also applying to a few other places, but they are requiring me to have my own insurance. I have seen the two big ones NAFI, and SAFE. I also see AOPA has their own as well. My question is which one is best to get. I dont have all my wings done to get the big discount from SAFE. They claim to be better than the other two, but of course they are going to claim that. So opinons and thoughts please.

Thank you

Your CFI checkride counts for wings credit. Your DPE will have to approve it, but it should get you to the next level of Wings.

 

[Jocww]

Your CFI checkride counts for wings credit. Your DPE will have to approve it, but it should get you to the next level of Wings.

I wish I had known that. I am not going to head back to MCA to get them to sign it. My friend also said to look into Global insurance. So I will be looking into them as well. But will probably get the SAFE insurance.

 

[tlglenn]

I wish I had known that. I am not going to head back to MCA to get them to sign it.

WINGS is done online through faasafety.gov so you don't have to physically go to the DPE.

 

[Jocww]

WINGS is done online through faasafety.gov so you don't have to physically go to the DPE.

Thank you for this information!!! I just sent it out for my commerical so hopefully that fullfils the flying portion. It seems to do basic and advanced. Do you know if the CFI will fulfill my Masters?

 

[tlglenn]

Thank you for this information!!! I just sent it out for my commerical so hopefully that fullfils the flying portion. It seems to do basic and advanced. Do you know if the CFI will fulfill my Masters?

Look at the individual credit descriptions. It should tell you.

 

[BrianM]

I chose to get my insurance through SAFE. They seem to have the best coverage and pricing was substantially better than AOPA. I do some multi instruction so that made the SAFE policy substantially better.