Cessna Skymaster - good? bad? why or why not?

[FORANE]

http://r.ebay.com/WSCeFZ
1978 Cessna P337H Pressurized Skymaster

Pressurized, turbocharged, de-iced, good speed, midline thrust...
Seems like a comfortable, capable, somewhat efficient all weather cross country machine.

Tell me the good, bad and ugly.

 

[James331]

Holy skymasters batman! That's a lot of plane right there.


Always wanted to fly one, never have, but specs wise and cool factor wise seems like one heck of a plane, my only concern would be the care and feeing of both the turbo engines, especially the rear one, and the pressure system.

Seems like a lot more plane than most of the trainer twins folks buy.

 

[SkyDog58]

Looks like a good one to me. I have always wanted to fly a Skymaster and there aren't too many high wing twins out there. The few owner/pilots that I have talked to about them seemed to really love them.

 

[EppyGA]

Sold AS-IS Where-Is with no implied or express warranty as to suitability or airworthiness.

Isn't one of the rubs on the Skymaster that you could lose the rear engine and not know it if you're not paying close attention?

It is well equipped.

 

[Unit74]

Hard to buy a plane off eBay. That's like heading to a Tiajuana for some cheap, aehegmn, you know..... And then going raw dawg hoping you don't get the gift that keeps on giving. Your chance of getting burned is very high.

Or in other words, a prebuy is basically impossible unless the deal is made outside eBay. You win an auction, as is where is then find a complete show stopper and you are contractually obligated to pay up. Not to mention it's a pressurized bird!

My oh my......

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

Hard to buy a plane off eBay...

Or in other words, a prebuy is basically impossible unless the deal is made outside eBay. You win an auction, as is where is then find a complete show stopper and you are contractually obligated to pay up. Not to mention it's a pressurized bird!

My oh my......

Not really. An eBay motors bid will be a non-binding offer, and the start of further negotiations if needed.

Policy overview
A non-binding bid is a bid that shows a buyer's interest in purchasing an item, but it doesn't create a formal contract between the buyer and the seller.​

All bids made in the Real Estate and eBay Motors vehicles categories are considered non-binding.
​

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/non-binding-bid.html

 

[Unit74]

I stand corrected. Didn't know that. So basically bidding on the chance to talk to the seller. What a hanky way of doing it.

Kinda like TAP but you pay for the conversation chance instead of just making a phone call. Does the seller get a bidder list to,work through assuming the first guy backs out?

 

[James331]

Isn't one of the rubs on the Skymaster that you could lose the rear engine and not know it if you're not paying close attention?

It is well equipped.

I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to tell if you're paying any attention at all, I mean between your MP and tach not being in sync, your loss of EGTs, loss of airspeed, etc.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I hear mechanics love em....

 

[N659HB]

I hear they're loud as hell inside the cabin.

 

[Mason]

The seller wants a 10% non-refundable deposit right away.

 

[James331]

The seller wants a 10% non-refundable deposit right away.

I want a mini pony


Both ain't going to happen, but we move on

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

I stand corrected. Didn't know that. So basically bidding on the chance to talk to the seller. What a hanky way of doing it.

I doubt most bidders (or sellers) are aware of this. As I remember, the policy morphed over time to reduce the amount of legal activity eBay was dragged into by buyers and sellers not completing transactions on big ticket items.

Kinda like TAP but you pay for the conversation chance instead of just making a phone call. Does the seller get a bidder list to,work through assuming the first guy backs out?

It depends...

eBay Motors bidding policy
When you place a bid on a vehicle in an auction or submit an offer for a vehicle using Buy It Now or Best Offer, you're entering into a transaction and subject to the rights and responsibilities of our User Agreement and User Privacy Notice.

Under the terms of such a bid, you are expressly consenting to share your information with your seller under certain circumstances and consenting to the seller contacting you about your offer on the vehicle or similar vehicles for sale.

eBay Motors sellers who are high-volume sellers have access to bidder information for all bidders participating in a particular eBay Motors transaction. These dealers may contact you about the vehicle you bid on or to discuss additional inventory that might be of interest to you.​

 

[hotprops]

thats a nice one and about new as they come . i flew one for someone .a Riley rocket. with ac . only thing i would check is the usefull load .it if i remember corectly was less alot less than stated and it had most of the same goodies and options .i remember that with 3/4 fuel and me it was over gross ,and was not a great climber. was it weighed after all the mods and done correctly?. i knew of one more that with full fuel sitting on the ramp was over gross with nothing on board! they fly like a 182

 

[mscard88]

The seller wants a 10% non-refundable deposit right away.

Yeah well I wanted to win that C172 a few months. Didn't happen and this won't happen. Unless you're a fool!

 

[Pilawt]

Pros:

-- The obvious one, no OEI Vmc issues. For that reason they expected the safety record of the 336/337 to be stellar, but it didn't work out that way. Further proof that when man invents an idiot-proof system, nature promptly responds by producing a more resourceful idiot.

-- Great visibility.

-- Good cabin room for four, and easy cabin access. If you plan to use the optional third row of seats, get the external belly pod for baggage.

-- Good short/soft field performance.​

Cons:

-- Cabin noise and vibration.

-- Relatively slow and inefficient in cruise.

-- Complex systems -- convoluted control rigging; complicated gear system. Bottom half of the aft fuselage disassembles with a lot of drag when the gear is in transit. If you lose an engine on takeoff before the gear is up, leave it down until obstacles are cleared.

-- Won't fit in a standard T-hangar.

-- Rear engine cooling issues. But the 337 (retractable, 1965-80) was better in that regard than the fixed-gear 336 (1964). The 336 had no cowl flaps; just a cooling intake on top and an axial exhaust fan attached to the rear prop shaft. The 337 had a redesigned top intake scoop (looked like an upside-down P-51), and adjustable cowl flaps.



​

Isn't one of the rubs on the Skymaster that you could lose the rear engine and not know it if you're not paying close attention?

On takeoff the drill is to advance the throttle on the rear engine first to be sure it is awake. It's also tough to be sure the rear prop is clear when starting up.

 

[mscard88]

If ya chain the prop on the rear motor don't forget to remove it before firing it up!

Happened to a Venezuela Air Force pilot who was attending school at Maxwell AFB and bought one and had it reconditioned. Nice plane after it was done, and he was taking back to his country when he left. Cranked up and forgot that chain! Oops!

 

[Brad Z]

On takeoff the drill is to advance the throttle on the rear engine first to be sure it is awake. It's also tough to be sure the rear prop is clear when starting up.

Finally a real safety purpose for a external mounted GoPro camera.

 

[Brad Z]

I doubt most bidders (or sellers) are aware of this. As I remember, the policy morphed over time to reduce the amount of legal activity eBay was dragged into by buyers and sellers not completing transactions on big ticket items.

You may not be aware of the policy, but I disagree that most bidders and seller are. The policy has been in effect for quite some time: I know it was in effect in 2003 when my flying club sold our Cessna 150 on eBay.

 

[Stephanie B]

The seller wants a 10% non-refundable deposit right away.

As the song goes: "Just walk away, Renee..."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Zeldman]

I flew a Sky master for a short time. It was a Riley conversion with A/C. It was a 4 person plane, but other than that it wasn't bad. Flew fine in the flight levels, plus the conversion adds a little sound proofing to the cabin.

Just remember that for take off to add power to the rear engine first to confirm it is running.

 

[James331]

As the song goes: "Just walk away, Renee..."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some folks just don't know how to negotiate.

If I liked the plane that wouldn't stop me, nor would his deposit, I'd just put some work in and overcome and maneuver around those issues

 

[Unit74]

Seller is on Beechtalk if there are any questions. It's up in the aircraft for sale forum.

 

[GRG55]

Pros:

-- The obvious one, no OEI Vmc issues. For that reason they expected the safety record of the 336/337 to be stellar, but it didn't work out that way. Further proof that when man invents an idiot-proof system, nature promptly responds by producing a more resourceful idiot.

-- Great visibility.

-- Good cabin room for four, and easy cabin access. If you plan to use the optional third row of seats, get the external belly pod for baggage.

-- Good short/soft field performance.​

Cons:

-- Cabin noise and vibration.

-- Relatively slow and inefficient in cruise.

-- Complex systems -- convoluted control rigging; complicated gear system. Bottom half of the aft fuselage disassembles with a lot of drag when the gear is in transit. If you lose an engine on takeoff before the gear is up, leave it down until obstacles are cleared.

-- Won't fit in a standard T-hangar.

-- Rear engine cooling issues. But the 337 (retractable, 1965-80) was better in that regard than the fixed-gear 336 (1964). The 336 had no cowl flaps; just a cooling intake on top and an axial exhaust fan attached to the rear prop shaft. The 337 had a redesigned top intake scoop (looked like an upside-down P-51), and adjustable cowl flaps.

View attachment 50287 View attachment 50288

View attachment 50289​

On takeoff the drill is to advance the throttle on the rear engine first to be sure it is awake. It's also tough to be sure the rear prop is clear when starting up.

- the later models, like this example, had more sound insulation and are a bit quieter inside, the pressurized versions even more so, but you are still sandwiched between the engines.

- the pressurized versions, especially a good Riley, are sought after but those small stock engines are working hard if the plane is flown at high loads and few reach TBO without needing cylinder work along the way (but with poor piloting technique that can be said of any turbocharged engine regardless of make and model)

- there is validity to the reputation for needing mechanical care and feeding, like other Cessna twins the gear requires regular attention to rigging (should be done every annual) or it will be a problem.

- the ingress/egress is really good, that clamshell door/stair is great for loading kids and grandparents.

- like a lot of unusual planes the pilots that own them love them, and those that don't are suspicious - immediate hangar neighbour has owned one for more 20 years and with his help I researched them pretty thoroughly as a first twin; decided on the Aztec for a variety of reasons including the comparative simplicity of naturally aspirated IO-540s and much higher useful load.

 

[paflyer]

Seller is on Beechtalk if there are any questions. It's up in the aircraft for sale forum.

Was just going to say that. Anyway, the non-refundable deposit is, uh, non-traditional.

 

[GRG55]

Was just going to say that. Anyway, the non-refundable deposit is, uh, non-traditional.

Probably using eBay to generate traffic? Suspect the deposit is to discourage tire kickers. Probably a way to work around that if one is serious.

 

[kyleb]

Probably using eBay to generate traffic? Suspect the deposit is to discourage tire kickers. Probably a way to work around that if one is serious.

People who are trying to sell an airplane will find a way to sell the airplane if they have an interested/willing buyer...

 

[Shepherd]

Lots of crap from Mixmaster haters.
I fell in love with the plane in Vietnam, flying some volunteer FAC sorties.
I've flown a few versions here in the states, and I still love them.
They are noisy, and a number of maintenance items are a PITA and serious knuckle busters.
But:
The right bird, with the right engine upgrades, and the right airframe upgrades is a joy to fly.

 

[Shepherd]

Pros:

On takeoff the drill is to advance the throttle on the rear engine first to be sure it is awake. It's also tough to be sure the rear prop is clear when starting up.

My buddy, Mitch, had klaxon hidden inside the rear cowling. When he was ready to light up the rear engine, he would lean on the button, and seismic recorders 2 counties away would register the noise.

 

[mscard88]

We had them in Korea, as FACs, O-2s the Air Force version. OV-10s replaced them I think in '74, from a base in Thailand. Must have been a cool plane to tool around in Korea in. Enjoyed watching them beat up the pattern at Osan AB.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

The Skymaster always struck me as an answer to a question no one asked.

But they do look cool, with the twin booms and all.

 

[kayoh190]

^^^ I think they look cool too - seems I'm in the minority there.

 

[KaiGywer]

Add me to the list of people who thinks they're cool. I've always wanted to fly one, so if anyone has a hookup

 

[Unit74]

If the capabilities matched the cool, it would be a real winner. There are those who love them, and those who talk chit about them. Kinda like my Ttail Lance. And like my Lance, most who talk chit have never flown one.

 

[James331]

If the capabilities matched the cool, it would be a real winner. There are those who love them, and those who talk chit about them. Kinda like my Ttail Lance. And like my Lance, most who talk chit have never flown one.

It's a pressurized, radar equipped, FIKI plane, twin engine with turbo to get into the good winds, plus it doesn't have the same issues that most twins flown by hobby pilots have, and that's the VMC thing, easy loading and it's also got some ramp appeal, well minus that funky paint job.


Seems like a ton of capability to me.

 

[Unit74]

That's not a FIKI plane per the seller. But yea, has a lot of capability. Just don't fill it with gas and expect and load left.

 

[James331]

That's not a FIKI plane per the seller. But yea, has a lot of capability. Just don't fill it with gas and expect and load left.

Guessing it's just missing the hot plate, just something to look into ding him on the price.

As far as full fuel, this is true with many larger planes, I can't remember the last time I topped the tanks, that's kinda something made common practice by low time flight school CFIs and instilled into hobby pilots.

There are very few missions where I'd need or want to top my 80 gallon tanks, I like my plane, but got zero desire to sit in her nonstop for nearly 6 hours.

 

[Unit74]

Having full tanks doesn't bother me one bit. Having full tanks plus my entire family and bags and under gross doesn't either. Just sayin'.......

 

[James331]

Ya don't know whatcha don't know I guess.

But for me, if I have a 1hr flight, carrying a extra 300lbs or more around with me just doesn't make sense, and can prove more dangerous.

Also I see lots of folks who don't plan for crap just fill er' to the tabs and let er rip.

Huge disservice for students instructed this way, they don't learn fuel management and real world performance planning.

I used to default tanks to 1/4, rent dry, students would fuel for their mission, and plan to have it back on the ramp with 1/4 tanks, screw up and you ether have to go fuel up, or you give some fuel away.

 

[Catalo]

Ya don't know whatcha don't know I guess.

But for me, if I have a 1hr flight, carrying a extra 300lbs or more around with me just doesn't make sense, and can prove more dangerous.

Also I see lots of folks who don't plan for crap just fill er' to the tabs and let er rip.

Huge disservice for students instructed this way, they don't learn fuel management and real world performance planning.

I used to default tanks to 1/4, rent dry, students would fuel for their mission, and plan to have it back on the ramp with 1/4 tanks, screw up and you ether have to go fuel up, or you give some fuel away.

That's the bad thing about teaching for a part 141 university. Students don't have to do anything. Line service does it. There is always full fuel and with just two people its never an issue. With dispatch you dont get to have the students make a go or no-go decision because they won't dispatch the plane.