Cessna 414 down near John Wayne - 5 Dead

FormerHangie said:
Engines have been known to partially fail, I. E., only operate at partial power.



What is the engine out procedure for a turbofan powered aircraft?
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Depends. Takeoff or cruise?
 
Kritchlow said:
That’s not exactly a single engine airliner.
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That wasn’t my point. The point is people would get used to it just like they did with etops. Years ago many wanted four engines or they wouldn’t get on. The Cessna caravan is used a a airliner, one engine.
 
chemgeek said:
I'll wait for some facts. Been through this before for a plane departing our airport a few years ago. Low altitude airborne LOC resulting in stall-spin crash into a field on a perfectly nice day with an apparently perfectly functioning airplane. The speculation was rampant, but pretty much totally inaccurate and uninformed.

The NTSB folks will figure out some things that will hopefully help understand this incident, which on the surface seems somewhat inexplicable. Unfortunately, when the airplane experiences significant damage due to impact, some things, like which parts were or were not functioning and control settings, may not be able to be determined precisely. But the NTSB investigators are pretty good at this. If they do an initial briefing, we might learn something, but the final report will take 12-14 months, probably.
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The NTSB varies from very good to irrational.
 
Paulie said:
That wasn’t my point. The point is people would get used to it just like they did with etops. Years ago many wanted four engines or they wouldn’t get on. The Cessna caravan is used a a airliner, one engine.
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When I say “airliner” I mean part 121 ops.
I realize I didn’t make that clear, but I think most would not consider a C208 as an airliner, even if somehow it was operated 121.
 
One thing that kind of bugs me about this is that the way he chose to fly the trip kind of required him to come down fast. He flew it at 10500 and functionally direct, I'm guessing to avoid the LAX Bravo. To do that, and still get into SNA, you have to lose a ton of altitude in a very short time and space.

sarangan said:
If the airplane was only 2 miles from SNA, he would have been talking to the controller. I assume this recording not been found on liveATC?
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As SNA is a Class C, it is possible he was still talking to SoCal. From personal experience, they don't always hand traffic over right at the inner ring.

Kenny Phillips said:
Yes, we hear about twins with one-engine-out augering in due to poor flying. But you must keep in mind that if a twin lands with only one engine running, there is no record of it.
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Aren't all engine outs supposed to be reported?

Paulie said:
That wasn’t my point. The point is people would get used to it just like they did with etops. Years ago many wanted four engines or they wouldn’t get on. The Cessna caravan is used a a airliner, one engine.
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Kritchlow said:
When I say “airliner” I mean part 121 ops.
I realize I didn’t make that clear, but I think most would not consider a C208 as an airliner, even if somehow it was operated 121.
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I've paid money to fly on Caravans plenty of times. Never considered them an airliner. Also, ETOPS and ESOPS are completely different things. Lose an engine on a twin airliner and the plane will perform perfectly fine, and still even fly on autopilot. Lose a single engine and you end up a glider, and may be thousands of miles from a suitable landing site. Or may just be on takeoff.
 
Kritchlow said:
When I say “airliner” I mean part 121 ops.
I realize I didn’t make that clear, but I think most would not consider a C208 as an airliner, even if somehow it was operated 121.
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And as we all know...

§121.159 Single-engine airplanes prohibited.
No certificate holder may operate a single-engine airplane under this part.
 
N1120A said:
One thing that kind of bugs me about this is that the way he chose to fly the trip kind of required him to come down fast. He flew it at 10500 and functionally direct, I'm guessing to avoid the LAX Bravo. To do that, and still get into SNA, you have to lose a ton of altitude in a very short time and space.
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I'm not sure if it affects your thoughts, but I noticed that "rtk 11" linked his flight aware path in post #6. He flew around the Bravo, to the west, out over the ocean. Moving the time scrubber, it looks like he started his descent near when he first got close to the LAX airspace. It looks to be about a 90-mile dogleg.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N727RP
 
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eetrojan said:
I'm not sure if it affects your thoughts, but I noticed that "rtk 11" linked his flight aware path in post #6. He flew around the Bravo, to the west, out over the ocean. Moving the time scrubber, it looks like he started his descent near when he first got close to the LAX airspace. It looks to be about a 90-mile dogleg.
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Yeah, I saw the routing. The whole routing/altitude suggests he was really concerned about that.
 
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