Cessna 310 true cost of ownership

k9medic

k9medic

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I am seriously considering moving up from the Cherokee 6 to a 310 and want to make sure that I am not going to get in over my head. In years past I flew a Q model and recall planning for 185kts and around 25 gph.

For the flight profile that I fly, with $75/ hour set back, I would spend about $16 more per flight than I do in my Cherokee 6. Unfortunately, that is the only apples to apples comparison that I have. The speed would shave 55 minutes off of my flight time in a zero wind situation.

I have a hangar that will fit the 310 so no changes there. Only other thing I can think of that would be an outlier would be the insurance and the average annual. My C6 averages around $1500-2000/ year at annual and the insurance is $900/ year total w/ no deductable. Both ground and in motion.

Any current 310 owners care to chime in?
 
Depending on the specific shop, your annual will probably go up 500-1000 or so after you catch things up.

Insurance will be very dependent on the hull value, your total/complex/multi/time in type. If you have decent times and 150-200K hull I’d guess around 3K a year.

We love our Q and I truly think it will be our forever plane. Good luck in your hunt. :)
 
Thanks guys. I know there are rarely new questions on someting like this but digging through hundreds of threads to find a couple of simple answers is tedious.

Don't we pilots always look for the easiest way?

3k a year for insurance hits hard in the pocket book. These are the things I am looking for. A small uptick in the annual is not that bad.
 
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You’ve got twice as many alternators, starters, fuel pumps, cylinders, etc to fix or replace as they wear out.
 
The Cherokee 6 most any shop can work on it. Make sure you find a shop that knows Cessna 310, the learning curve can be very expensive. I had a 310D over 30 years ago it was maintained in great shape before I bought it and over the years I owned it cost me very little, loved it great plane. Years ago insurance for low time twin pilots was not that high, now you are going to take a hit on that. Best advice buy the best one you can afford pay it now or pay it latter.
 
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My theory has always been that the fuel is the cheapest thing in an aircraft.

I can't plan on an actual "hourly rate" since hours change. Last year I flew 70 hours in the Cherokee 6. This year, thanks to covid, I have flown 12.

My planning normally is fixed costs, plus what ever...
 
k9medic said:
...Last year I flew 70 hours in the Cherokee 6. This year, thanks to covid, I have flown 12...
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as an OWNER, how has covid limited your flying hours? I can see as a renter, as some places were shut down for a while, but as an owner?
 
eman1200 said:
as an OWNER, how has covid limited your flying hours? I can see as a renter, as some places were shut down for a while, but as an owner?
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Employer imposed travel restriction. Kinda hard to go to the beach when its punishable by the UCMJ. Then theres also the self imposed assessment of not patronizing covid hotspots locally. These are at least two reasons my airplane has sat.

To your point, if I had an RV this wouldn't be true, as id be flying solo upside down every weekend. But I don't own an RV yet, so boring holes upright locally in a legacy spam can is just not high on the list with a young family at home.
 
k9medic said:
3k a year for insurance hits hard in the pocket book. These are the things I am looking for. A small uptick in the annual is not that bad.
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That's the reason I stopped looking at twins as a high time guy with low make model time in spam can twins. The premiums and assorted nickle and dime didn't pencil out for my low yearly use. Honestly, in your situation just get a lance.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Employer imposed travel restriction. Kinda hard to go to the beach when its punishable by the UCMJ. Then theres also the self imposed assessment of not patronizing covid hotspots locally. These are at least two reasons my airplane has sat.

To your point, if I had an RV this wouldn't be true, as id be flying solo upside down every weekend. But I don't own an RV yet, so boring holes upright locally in a legacy spam can is just not high on the list with a young family at home.
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I didn't ask you :) but, to your point, have you flown zero GENERAL AVIATION hours since covid?
 
I’ve got 100 or so hours in a 310 but that was 15 years ago. I would definitely need a refresher if not for insurance, but for me.

I have a lot of twin turbine time but that’s in helicopters. Not sure how or if that would correlate for a piston twin.


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k9medic said:
I’ve got 100 or so hours in a 310 but that was 15 years ago.
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Curious. Have the 310 costs gone up so much you couldn't talk to the guy that owned the 310 you flew back then and get his take on costs?
 
Are you a hands-on owner in terms of parts sourcing and owner-assisted MX? If not, and depending on the shop that does your work, you could see a very significant increase in annual inspection/annual maintenance expenses. In addition to 2x of every engine part, the systems tend to be more complicated overall (cabin heaters, etc.) and in some cases can be harder to access/replace (think engine control cables). That adds to labor costs. The Cherokee 6 is a relatively simple airplane; the 310, relatively, isn't.

The only way I keep my twin marginally affordable is by doing as much owner-assisted work as my A&P will tolerate, and I do virtually all of my own parts sourcing and troubleshooting. Also, be prepared for higher ramp fees (or a loss of waived ramp fees) when you travel, especially at the larger FBOs.
 
The previous 310 owner was an A&P/IA. Can’t compare costs that way.

For me, my current A&P/IA let’s me do a lot of work under his supervision. I have opened a few inspection plates in my time.


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eman1200 said:
I didn't ask you :) but, to your point, have you flown zero GENERAL AVIATION hours since covid?
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No I have flown, just a lot less due to covid. I was just answering ya on how covid has limited my flying as an owner. Cheers!
 
eman1200 said:
as an OWNER, how has covid limited your flying hours? I can see as a renter, as some places were shut down for a while, but as an owner?
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I purchased a plane specifically to fly to and from my house in the Bahamas. Last year I flew back and forth at least once a month with an average round trip of 5.7 hours.

In 2020, we were prepared to do the same thing and then COVID started. The Bahamas stopped a lot of movement into and out of the country back in March. Our last trip over was in July and the same day we landed back in the states the Bahamas went back on lockdown.

As a homeowner, I can go and stay at my house but I have to quarantinve for 14 days. No sense in that so my flying has been reduced significantly. I'm taking advantage of that though this month and putting in a new interior.
 
k9medic said:
I purchased a plane specifically to fly to and from my house in the Bahamas. Last year I flew back and forth at least once a month with an average round trip of 5.7 hours.

In 2020, we were prepared to do the same thing and then COVID started. The Bahamas stopped a lot of movement into and out of the country back in March. Our last trip over was in July and the same day we landed the Bahamas went back on lockdown.

As a homeowner, I can go and stay at my house but I have to quarantinve for 14 days. No sense in that so my flying has been reduced significantly. I'm taking advantage of that though this month and putting in a new interior.
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ugh, that sux.
 
What about a retract single like C-210 turbo or Bonanza? Are you thinking twin = safety? You fly a SEP now so no real downgrade in safety with a faster SEP. An engine failure over the ocean in a twin will most likely still end up in a ditch situation anyway.
 
Geosync said:
What about a retract single like C-210 turbo or Bonanza? Are you thinking twin = safety? You fly a SEP now so no real downgrade in safety with a faster SEP. An engine failure over the ocean in a twin will most likely still end up in a ditch situation anyway.
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I need 6 seats and have to have at least a 185kt cruise speed for it to even start to make sense to change planes. I don't know of a single in my price range that could do such a thing.

I disagree with a twin "most likely" ending up in a ditch situation anway.
 
I moved from a Cherokee Six 260 to a 310J then to a T310Q. I knew expenses would be MUCH higher but still a shock when you get the bill. My average annual on the Six was $1500 plus any repairs if any. 310J went up to $4000 plus repairs if any. T310Q is up to $6000 plus repairs if any. Insurance went up too by about 40%. I did do 30 hours of dual in type. Otherwise insurance might have been worse. Also set aside recurrent training expense depending on which insurance company you end up with.
Overall I only fly about 50-75 hours a year. Rough estimate without repairs I would say $10k per year for the Six, $20k per year 310J, $30k per year T310Q.
Last year the T310Q was about $45k for only about 20 hours of flying BUT plane was down for months due to exhaust AD replacement and parts on backorder, new interior plus poor weather and time down for ADSB install plus I was out of the country a few times for international travel.

It is a substantial jump in expenses. There are days where I miss the simplicity and cost of ownership of my Six. Then I take off from an airport at almost 2k per minute climb and do between 185-200 knots and get to my destination sometimes hours ahead of where I would have been in the Six and I find the expense tolerable. Mind you my wife and I use this as a traveling machine and the real gain in time and speed is only when we are going somewhere far. For example Iowa to Roswell, NM was practically an ALL day trip. Iowa to Cut Bank, MT was one stop. Had breakfast, departed and had a late lunch at destination.

By they way my SE ceiling in the T310Q is "13,500" and it makes rated power to about 17k. Really makes a big difference over high terrain.
It's all about mitigating risks. You add some when you go to a twin but you also reduce some. For me moving to a twin a few years ago made sense and still does today until I have to open the checkbook. That sometimes stings a bit.

Hope this helps in your decision making.
 
That’s awesome info! Thank you!!!

I don’t mess with any flights under 350nm so speed is my friend.

I really have no need to go over 8-9000’ so turbo doesn’t do me much.


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schmookeeg said:
This is true in my plane, when loaded to gross weight, for all oceans over ~8,500 feet MSL.
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Density altitude matters. 0 MSL at 29.92” is a bit over 8500’ DA when the conditions are 150F and 100% RH. Or just 110F if the altimeter setting is 26.05”.
 
Then I would look at a normally aspirated 310. I would recommend you find a J or later model. I like the larger baggage door on the Q and R models.

When we were concentrating on flying East of the rockies, the 310J had absolutely no issues flying from east of the rockies to the Atlantic coast. Cost of ownership drops quite a bit going with a normally aspirated 310 vs turbo engines. Buy a good, clean 310 and go long distance flying! The R has a nice nose baggage but doesn't fit well in most T hangars.

Keep us updated on what you end up doing.



k9medic said:
That’s awesome info! Thank you!!!

I don’t mess with any flights under 350nm so speed is my friend.

I really have no need to go over 8-9000’ so turbo doesn’t do me much.


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I bought the 310Q last year extremely cheap and paid for it in the past 1.5 years. I fly about 80 hours a year. In the past year I had and extensive annual due to a crack found at the nose gear trunnion which required a ton of manual labor, reskinning and paint to replace it. All 4 mags had to be replaced, the Pressure Decay Test AD on the heater, new brakes, all new fluid hoses (got rid of the hose AD) and much more. It was a $30k annual.

OH both props and it should’ve been $7500. Turned out to be $11k since I needed 2 blades. $4k in prop govs being OH. Should’ve only been $2k but mine had to be completely rebuilt. Both vacuum pumps replaced. $30k in avionics upgrades. The list goes on.

I love the plane and have too much “invested” to start over with a new one. My advice is to buy the Q model. So much less that can go wrong with it. It’s lighter and the 470’s are bullet proof. Add in the Turbos and de-ice and it just adds to the MTX bill.

For planning purposes, It’s about $35k for an engine OH, $46k for factory reman, $16k for interior, and $20k for paint. I’ve had recent quotes for all of these services. Plan on at least $10k a year for an annual and hope for the best.

Buy one that has all of the AD’s complied with, digital logbooks, new or OH heater, low time engines, ADS-B done, and NDH. Watch for spar cap corrosion, nose trunnion damage, bladder replacements, and glass.

Lots of great deals out there on 310’s but is seems nice of them meet all of that criteria. Most of them for sale all need avionics upgrades. There’s only one for sale that really stands out like a great buy right now and it’s a Colemill with 550’s. I’d be all over it if I were doing it all over again. A Colemill upgrade is about $150k.

http://www.controller.com/ListingsDetail/Detail.aspx?lp=CNT&OHID=195656961


Ours is going to be our forever plane hopefully even though it needs paint, interior, glass, and new engine in the next couple of years. I’ll be into it for about $200k and have a like new airplane. All plan to keep it in a hanger to extend its life. Keeping it outside is overall bad for any airplane in my opinion. Get rid of all of the original Scat tubing. It creates a ton of corrosion in the nose by retaining moisture and against the airplane skin.

Best of luck to you. You’ll love the 310 when you find the perfect one.


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Fracpilot said:
I bought the 310Q last year extremely cheap and paid for it in the past 1.5 years. I fly about 80 hours a year. In the past year I had and extensive annual due to a crack found at the nose gear trunnion which required a ton of manual labor, reskinning and paint to replace it. All 4 mags had to be replaced, the Pressure Decay Test AD on the heater, new brakes, all new fluid hoses (got rid of the hose AD) and much more. It was a $30k annual.

OH both props and it should’ve been $7500. Turned out to be $11k since I needed 2 blades. $4k in prop govs being OH. Should’ve only been $2k but mine had to be completely rebuilt. Both vacuum pumps replaced. $30k in avionics upgrades. The list goes on.

I love the plane and have too much “invested” to start over with a new one. My advice is to buy the Q model. So much less that can go wrong with it. It’s lighter and the 470’s are bullet proof. Add in the Turbos and de-ice and it just adds to the MTX bill.

For planning purposes, It’s about $35k for an engine OH, $46k for factory reman, $16k for interior, and $20k for paint. I’ve had recent quotes for all of these services. Plan on at least $10k a year for an annual and hope for the best.

Buy one that has all of the AD’s complied with, digital logbooks, new or OH heater, low time engines, ADS-B done, and NDH. Watch for spar cap corrosion, nose trunnion damage, bladder replacements, and glass.

Lots of great deals out there on 310’s but is seems nice of them meet all of that criteria. Most of them for sale all need avionics upgrades. There’s only one for sale that really stands out like a great buy right now and it’s a Colemill with 550’s. I’d be all over it if I were doing it all over again. A Colemill upgrade is about $150k.

http://www.controller.com/ListingsDetail/Detail.aspx?lp=CNT&OHID=195656961


Ours is going to be our forever plane hopefully even though it needs paint, interior, glass, and new engine in the next couple of years. I’ll be into it for about $200k and have a like new airplane. All plan to keep it in a hanger to extend its life. Keeping it outside is overall bad for any airplane in my opinion. Get rid of all of the original Scat tubing. It creates a ton of corrosion in the nose by retaining moisture and against the airplane skin.

Best of luck to you. You’ll love the 310 when you find the perfect one.


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So I’m looking at this 310Q in Mesa, AZ with the Colemill. I don’t know much about them but would they be a nice alternative to a T310R with my wife and 2 small children who would like to do some 2.5-3.5 hour stage length flights out west primarily? I’ve been looking at turbos for their useful load and single engine performance. Can the 310Q With Colemill conversion even hold a candle to a T310R?

If so, how would the cost of ownership differ between these two birds? I’d imagine the non turbo would be a bit better than the Turbo but with the Colemill conversion, perhaps it’s almost a wash?

Any insight would be awesome!
 
I just saw the link to the Colemill 310. Great looking airplane. The logs look pretty clean and thorough. Older avionics. After having my G5’s I don’t like having a plane without them.

I highly recommend you join our twin Cessna owners group. You can go into the forums and get a lot of questions answered there. https://twincessna.org/mobile/index.asp

One of the owners recently did the Colemill upgrade to his 310Q from the Turbo 520’s to the IO-550. He posted the numbers and yes it out performed the turbo 520’s in way of take off and single engine performance, cruise and critical altitude. It raised his SE ceiling to 10,000 MSL I believe. It’s also a lot less maintenance without the turbos. The IO-550 is a solid engine.

Your mission for 4 people and 3.5 hour range is very doable if you have the aux tanks bringing the total to 163 gal. I’ve flown mine 4.5 hours but I have IO-470’s. You’ll hit bladder limits before airplane range limits. The fuel burn isn’t much different than 470’s to the 550’s since whatever fuel gallons extra you burn, you usually are flying faster to make up the difference if we compared MPG.

If I had the $$, I’d convert mine to a Colemill. It’s about a $160k conversion cost.

Your family will love the 310. I know mine does. Good luck!


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k9medic said:
I am seriously considering moving up from the Cherokee 6 to a 310 and want to make sure that I am not going to get in over my head. In years past I flew a Q model and recall planning for 185kts and around 25 gph.

For the flight profile that I fly, with $75/ hour set back, I would spend about $16 more per flight than I do in my Cherokee 6. Unfortunately, that is the only apples to apples comparison that I have. The speed would shave 55 minutes off of my flight time in a zero wind situation.

I have a hangar that will fit the 310 so no changes there. Only other thing I can think of that would be an outlier would be the insurance and the average annual. My C6 averages around $1500-2000/ year at annual and the insurance is $900/ year total w/ no deductable. Both ground and in motion.

Any current 310 owners care to chime in?
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k9medic:I owned a Q model in the 1980s, having traded it for a Mooney.These are much more complicated/complex to maintain than any single, including a Cherokee Six.My first annual was $10k in~1985 for a well maintained 1973Q that needed engine cables,overhaul of cabin nose heater,& gear rerigging(all "consumables").Maintaining deicing boots, dual engines, dual alternators, weather radar,etc.comes at a high cost(when I sold in the 1990s I was paying about $500/hr overall expenses for flying 200hr/yr),so you need to have justification for your mission ie.engine redundancy,payload/range,rate of climb,terrain, etc.If you are looking to budget one of these babies then you are shopping for the wrong airplane.Seek a partner to share the fun.
GOOD POINTS:(1) These are very rugged(mine went thru severe turbulence a couple of times, including storms,that hardly went noticed by my wife);(2)Boots worked well while escaping wet snow/mod.ice;
(3)They all have impressive climb rate(>300 fpm on 1 engine if done right,1700fpm max climb) and surprising fuel efficiency(I regularly saw 175kts TAS on 23gph@60%power);(4)Endurance/payload is outstanding in most(~6hrs,~1600#);(5) The I0-470 VO Cont.engines run cool even in climb,and are much quieter than IO-520s on the -R model;(6)You can achieve surprisingly good cruise speeds at 14-15k ft.altitude(>150KTAS);(7)VGs(mandatory) & excellent brakes make landing these rocket ships easy;(8)They have great cabin width v a Baron, along with superb cockpit visibility& pilot ergonomics.
CAVEATS:Avoid high speed turns(gear does not tolerate);braking must be restricted to a "straight ahead"taxi profile; seek out a twin Cessna expert for gear maint.(nose gear a definite weak point that demands proper care); commit to regular practice of emergency procedures(this paid dividends when I had a cabin electrical fire requiring a "thrilling"emergency descent & landing);avoid turbo models($$)unless needed for high DA or high enroute operations(icing conditions notwithstanding).
These machines were the equal of a Beech Baron.Good luck.
 
Well some color to this old post... Here we are in August of 2021.

In July I sold my Cherokee 6 and went on the hunt for a Cessna 310 or a 320. In the interim, I have been borrowing a friends 310K. I forgot what it was like to fly fast!!!

I found a 320E that looked great in the pictures, made an offer and off to the mechanic it went. Unfortunately, the prebuy went south. Really south. The aircraft was not what was presented in the photos.

I am now under contract for a '73 310Q and as long as the oil analysis comes back good, I will close on or before 8/31
 
k9medic said:
Well some color to this old post... Here we are in August of 2021.

In July I sold my Cherokee 6 and went on the hunt for a Cessna 310 or a 320. In the interim, I have been borrowing a friends 310K. I forgot what it was like to fly fast!!!

I found a 320E that looked great in the pictures, made an offer and off to the mechanic it went. Unfortunately, the prebuy went south. Really south. The aircraft was not what was presented in the photos.

I am now under contract for a '73 310Q and as long as the oil analysis comes back good, I will close on or before 8/31
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Congrats!! We love our ‘73 310Q.
 
Yep. Best part is it doesn't have boots to mess with. I figure it is one less thing to mess with and with the AD making anything close to icing out of the question, it's a money saver.
 
k9medic said:
Yep. Best part is it doesn't have boots to mess with. I figure it is one less thing to mess with and with the AD making anything close to icing out of the question, it's a money saver.
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Like most advanced systems, it’s for sure a money saver to not have it. I live in the Midwest and regardless of AD’s, it works very well at shedding and provides more escape options. If I lived down south I wouldn’t want it. I’d be cruising back and forth to the Bahamas/Caribbean 80% of the time!
 
Radar Contact said:
Like most advanced systems, it’s for sure a money saver to not have it. I live in the Midwest and regardless of AD’s, it works very well at shedding and provides more escape options. If I lived down south I wouldn’t want it. I’d be cruising back and forth to the Bahamas/Caribbean 80% of the time!
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Agree that boots are high maint.for their rare use,and add to vac pump stress.I found hot props to be much more valuable.Without a doubt the landing gear was the biggest expense over several yr. of ownership. Rerig it yearly($$)or face risk of collapse.Also, on the Q, be sure to double check the cigarette lighter plug circ.breaker & wiring (remote SB?) behind the panel in order to avoid a fire.Cessna's autopilots are not the most reliable. The shop in Tulsa probably still repairs them. These planes are genuine ***** magnets.
 
k9medic said:
I am now under contract for a '73 310Q and as long as the oil analysis comes back good, I will close on or before 8/31
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Congratulations! I just put a few hours on the 310 last week after a dry spell (consisting of the phase 1 on my EAB) and it was awesome. Every time I fly the 310, I want to plan another long trip. Like, really long.
 
iamtheari said:
Congratulations! I just put a few hours on the 310 last week after a dry spell (consisting of the phase 1 on my EAB) and it was awesome. Every time I fly the 310, I want to plan another long trip. Like, really long.
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Careful, she will far exceed your bladder range. After my last 4.5 hour flight, I can certainly attest to it. I bring camping bags with me now that absorb the liquid if you had to use it.

Congratulations on your 310. We love our 74 310Q as well.


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