Cessna 172H deal - Your thoughts?

[Dan Thomas]

While the Continental C145 and look to see if it is really is an O 300 not much difference, the bottom ends are really good, but if you need all that engine work done, I would buy six new cylinders and have a top OH, have the mags OH'd etc.

That 172H will have an O-300-C or -D. not a C-145. TCDS.

If the mags are the originals from 1967, they will hardly be worth overhauling. They will need bearings and seals and just about everything else. They will likely have numerous outstanding ADs on them, unless they were replaced because of an AD at some point. From the O-300 TCDS:


Look at that. They might have the TCM/Bendix mags, but they're likely original. They might have the Slick 664s, which are throwaway mags. Not likely to have the Case mags. I'd sure hope not. In any case, if they're original they're likely junk. I speak from experience.

Who told all that work was $15,000 is trying to get in your wallet, these airplanes are not that hard to work on, get a new mechanic. You can buy the stuff needed and have an A&P do the work, better yet find a guy that will let you help and learn how to maintain your plane,

Shop rates aren't $25 an hour, and not many mechanics want to spend time training an owner how to gyp him out of work, and have still the liability presented by the signature. This stuff is not that simple, and without training, mistakes are made. Are you a trained mechanic?

 

[Pinecone]

I don’t think you’ll be able to install all of those items for 7-10k.

Agreed. Or I would question the competency of the shop.

I got a quote on a G3X, GFC-500, and audio panel install. The labor salone was $22,000. Plane already have a GT650 and GTX345.

As others have said, that panel is overkill for a C-172. So another thought, buy it, and sell the avionics in the boxes. 750 is worth $15,000 used. 650 somewhere north of $10K. G700 is strange, as that is the autopilot for the G1000 suite, not the G500. I would think it would be a GFC-500 or 600. GFC-500 is about $7,000 new. GTX345 would be worth installing for the ADSB-B out and IN.

So you could get back $30K plus from selling the stuff, to cover the cost of getting the aircraft back together.

I also question the >1000 hours since the 60s. That is like 15 hours per year.

 

[cmsuav8r]

Rent for the next 3 years and save money for the plane you really want to buy.

 

[RossG2000]

Well guys, I went through with it. I got the price negotiated down substantially and had a good mechanic/avionics nerd help me sort out the parts, estimate installation, etc.

Final avionics list:
Garmin G500 PFD
Garmin GTN750 #1 WAAS Navigator
Garmin GTN650 #2 WAAS Navigator
Garmin GMA35 Remote Audio Panel/Intercom
Garmin GTX327 ATC Transponder
Garmin GDL88 ADS-B Transceiver
Garmin GFC500 2-axis Autopilot with Trim Option
Garmin G5 Standby Flight Instrument

Still a few things to sort out before we sign paperwork. At this point, it's conditional on a test this weekend. Pending that goes well, it will be mine.

I do have a couple of questions on the avionics side if anyone has some knowledge on them. I'll save that for future posts.

 

[Rgbeard]

Congratulations!

 

[somorris]

Congratulations, Ross!

 

[O2 Birddog]

Hello all,

Have an opportunity to purchase a super low (<1000) time 172H. I've personally inspected the plane and sent it to pre-buy inspection which came back very good with an excellent airframe report (no damage, no corrosion). It needs about $10,000-$15,000 per the pre-buy report (new magnetos, partial engine rebuild for valves and such, ignition harness, new spark plugs, brakes, tires, etc.), not including the interior work laid out below.

Here's where it gets difficult. The plane's panel/interior is almost entirely out of it. A complete set of new Garmin avionics are in boxes and would come with the plane. I don't even have the complete list* (they're working on that) but I know it includes Garmin G500 PFD, Garmin 750, 650, GTX 327, GDL 88, GMA35, G5 as backup PFD, GFC 500 autopilot and other stuff that I haven't dug into yet. The plane will have no steam gauges except a select few for engine. I've been quoted between $7000-$10000 to install all of this. Again, still waiting on the exact list of items. I have a shop that's willing and ready to do it. I'm willing to assume that it's a low, preliminary estimate and that will grow by $5k-$10k by the time it's all said and done.

The price of the plane currently being asked comes with all the avionics but not the install. I've gotten one preliminary estimate for installation. I'd be all in for about $105,000 (plane, avionics, installation, annual, pre-buy, pre-buy items all addressed) etc. At that point I'd be tempted to also throw an EI MVP50 into it, which I'd estimate at $10,000 all said and done. Call it $105k-$120k.

My question is, does it make sense to put this kind of money into a 60's 172 ($105k-$120k)? I am not super experienced in aviation; however, I'm familiar with automotive and marine industries where you can easily "over-restore" and put way more money in than what you can get out. My worry is not flipping the plane or selling it any time soon; however, I don't want to be making a horrible financial decision. My hopes would be to upgrade to something like a Cessna 400 or Mooney in 3-5 years (maybe).

I've been following the 172 market for the past few months, and on and off for about a year or two. Like almost every product, prices have skyrocketed. Does that translate into true values? Or is this a bubble? I see many 1960-1980 172's with many more hours and much less equipment going for 100,000-150,000 depending on the unit/condition etc.

TLDR; is having between $105,000-$120,000 all said and done into a 60's 172 a bad idea for a low total time and advanced avionics plane?

Thanks

*Updated in recent posts.

Not the direction I'd go myself but you're going to end up with an engine that should be good for upwards of a thousand hours with up to date modern avionics at that price.

If paint, upolstry, interior plastics etc are even a six or seven out of ten It would seem you've still got quite a deal.

Personally I would want to have the original six pack of "steam gauges" to go along with the modern digital equipment just for an added layer of safety in case of electrical issues.

 

[Capngrog]

... once the work starts and they see the cam etc.

Aircraft engines, such as the one installed in the 172 don't enjoy long periods of inactivity. The protective coating of oil on internal parts tends to dissipate over time, only to be replaced with surface rust. Although it may appear benign, surface rust can have a negative effect on hardened wearing surfaces such as cam lobes, lifters etc. In other words, a complete teardown would probably be in order, not just a top overhaul. Remember the old adage: "Rust/rot never sleeps".

When was the last annual? When was the airplane last flown? Unless there is documentation that the engine had been run regularly, it more than likely sat for extended periods of time.

I'm no A & P mechanic, but I hang out with a couple on a regular basis, and we've discussed problems that usually arise when an engine has not been run on a regular basis.

Just my opinion.

 

[O2 Birddog]

Well guys, I went through with it. I got the price negotiated down substantially and had a good mechanic/avionics nerd help me sort out the parts, estimate installation, etc.

Final avionics list:
Garmin G500 PFD
Garmin GTN750 #1 WAAS Navigator
Garmin GTN650 #2 WAAS Navigator
Garmin GMA35 Remote Audio Panel/Intercom
Garmin GTX327 ATC Transponder
Garmin GDL88 ADS-B Transceiver
Garmin GFC500 2-axis Autopilot with Trim Option
Garmin G5 Standby Flight Instrument

Still a few things to sort out before we sign paperwork. At this point, it's conditional on a test this weekend. Pending that goes well, it will be mine.

I do have a couple of questions on the avionics side if anyone has some knowledge on them. I'll save that for future posts.

I missed this. Congrats if the plane fits the mission I doubt you'll be disappointed.

 

[MajorTurbulence]

Well guys, I went through with it. I got the price negotiated down substantially and had a good mechanic/avionics nerd help me sort out the parts, estimate installation, etc.

Final avionics list:
Garmin G500 PFD
Garmin GTN750 #1 WAAS Navigator
Garmin GTN650 #2 WAAS Navigator
Garmin GMA35 Remote Audio Panel/Intercom
Garmin GTX327 ATC Transponder
Garmin GDL88 ADS-B Transceiver
Garmin GFC500 2-axis Autopilot with Trim Option
Garmin G5 Standby Flight Instrument

Still a few things to sort out before we sign paperwork. At this point, it's conditional on a test this weekend. Pending that goes well, it will be mine.

I do have a couple of questions on the avionics side if anyone has some knowledge on them. I'll save that for future posts.

Whatever performance issues you have with the airframe and engine combination, the truth is that if that equipment is installed correctly, it would transform the aircraft substantively and give you immense satisfaction with its capabilities. Being able to fly IFR with GPSS is amazing. Technically, I believe this aircraft would be a TAA per the FAA. Personally, I would prefer an engine monitor and fuel flow tied into my GPS which would make it a real travel machine in spite of its diminished cruise speed.
Congrats

 

[O2 Birddog]

Whatever performance issues you have with the airframe and engine combination, the truth is that if that equipment is installed correctly, it would transform the aircraft substantively and give you immense satisfaction with its capabilities. Being able to fly IFR with GPSS is amazing. Technically, I believe this aircraft would be a TAA per the FAA. Personally, I would prefer an engine monitor and fuel flow tied into my GPS which would make it a real travel machine in spite of its diminished cruise speed.
Congrats

I talked to a guy this last week who recently flew to Seattle commercial with a buddy so they could ferry a Tomahawk to Texas. It took them about five days.

I asked him what it was like making that trip at 100kts and he said, "it isn't about getting there, it's about the journey and we had a blast".

It isn't all about speed and with modern avionics you can have just as reliable an aircraft as anyone, slow down, and just enjoy the sight seeing like they did.

 

[RossG2000]

A few questions for you guys.

Should I install a FlightStream 210 module or just buy a FS 510 card instead?

I'm thinking about doing an engine analyzer while it's all taken apart. JPI EDM 900 or EI MVP50P are the two choices. I'm looking at about $10k installed for either.