Cell Phone Use while Driving

gprellwitz

gprellwitz

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
12,774
Location
Romeoville, IL
Display Name
Display name:
Grant Prellwitz
Okay, we've all heard that using the cell phone or, even worse, texting, while driving will KEEL YOU DEAD! But, we're pilots, right? We're TRAINED to multitask, especially if we're Instrument Rated! What do you have to say about the use of cell phones, for either voice or text, while driving? Does instrument training enter into it? Does It matter if it's hands-free? Is it more or less distracting than having screaming, bickering kids in the car with you? Or is having anything other than the traffic around you foremost in mind a Death Sentence? Sound Off!
 
The cell phone becomes a secondary issue for me when driving. People can attest to me telling them to repeat what they were saying while I was driving because my attention was focused on driving and not talking, and I blocked out what was being said to me. I've always been able to block out voices when I needed more attention at whatever it was I am doing. Whether it be driving, flying, computer work, a puzzle, anything really...auditory is on the bottom of my senses totem pole.
 
Driving can't really be compared to flying when it comes to multitasking... driving is like being on final the whole time.

In fact, it's like being on final with some knucklehead idling on the runway in front of you, a much faster aircraft screaming in on a 10-mile final behind you, and someone turning against traffic to cut you off. And none of them notice the danger because they're all too busy "multitasking". :D

The saddest thing of all is that I just don't see as many people reading while driving these days... it's the dumbing-down of America, I tell ya...:D

I can certainly talk while driving (Bluetooth headset makes it pretty easy, even with a stickshift to deal with), but anything that involves looking at the phone or pushing buttons is best left to long, lonesome straightaways... or I'll wait until I have to stop at a red light or something.
Never had a close shave while playing with my phone in the car, but I have found myself sitting at a green light more than once. :blush:
 
gprellwitz said:
Okay, we've all heard that using the cell phone or, even worse, texting, while driving will KEEL YOU DEAD! But, we're pilots, right? We're TRAINED to multitask, especially if we're Instrument Rated! What do you have to say about the use of cell phones, for either voice or text, while driving? Does instrument training enter into it? Does It matter if it's hands-free? Is it more or less distracting than having screaming, bickering kids in the car with you? Or is having anything other than the traffic around you foremost in mind a Death Sentence? Sound Off!
Click to expand...

Does it matter that during the years cellphone usage increased
from zero to a large percentage of the driver, national accident
rates were flat or dipped slightly?

(source: from the national highway safety somethingorother
statistics on accident rates)

I would have expected that accident rates would have increased
significantly. Since they didn't, I believe that the people having
accidents while talking on the phone would have had accidents
anyway due to other distractions. A bad driver is stilll a bad
driver.
 
Bob Noel said:
Does it matter that during the years cellphone usage increased
from zero to a large percentage of the driver, national accident
rates were flat or dipped slightly?

(source: from the national highway safety somethingorother
statistics on accident rates)

I would have expected that accident rates would have increased
significantly. Since they didn't, I believe that the people having
accidents while talking on the phone would have had accidents
anyway due to other distractions. A bad driver is stilll a bad
driver.
Click to expand...
I had some one tell me at a bar a few weeks ago that years ago he had never seen cellphone accidents like there are now. I pointed out to him that 'years ago' there were no cellphones. He didn't get it.

Distracted drivers will be distracted by whatever shiny object they have access to. Be it cellphones, stereos, make up, newspapers, etc. They will find something in the car to keep their attention off of the task of driving.
 
rottydaddy said:
Driving can't really be compared to flying when it comes to multitasking... driving is like being on final the whole time.
Click to expand...

Being on final is easy. It's hand flying in a cloud while copying a new clearance, finding it on the charts, entering it into the GPS, etc. that's a bigger deal.

Similar to flying: Drive, navigate, communicate. In that order. I have no issues with it.
 
Bob Noel said:
Does it matter that during the years cellphone usage increased
from zero to a large percentage of the driver, national accident
rates were flat or dipped slightly?

(source: from the national highway safety somethingorother
statistics on accident rates)

I would have expected that accident rates would have increased
significantly. Since they didn't, I believe that the people having
accidents while talking on the phone would have had accidents
anyway due to other distractions. A bad driver is stilll a bad
driver.
Click to expand...

All this may be true...I still dislike driving near most drivers talking on their cell phones or ortherwise being distracted. They compensate by driving slower than the rest of traffic (gives them more lead time); stopping more slowly, and stopping well short of the stop line (sometimes before the light sensor so it takes much longer for the red light to come on for us). Since they have one hand on the wheel and another hand holding the phone, there's no hand for the turn signal- so they just stop and turn, or simply change lanes with no warning.

Accidents may be down...but driving near these people is still annoying.
 
smigaldi said:
Distracted drivers will be distracted by whatever shiny object they have access to. Be it cellphones, stereos, make up, newspapers, etc. They will find something in the car to keep their attention off of the task of driving.
Click to expand...

Good point. I think car GPS units can be as big a distraction as cell phones if not used properly.

That said, I don't like to be around drivers yakking on their cell phones. But I'm for mandatory skills testing for driver license renewals, too...


Trapper John
 
I drive and text....

I swerve, but after 5 years (or longer, wow, I'm getting old) no accidents.
 
Grant: Like you, I can multi-task. Back when flying helos we had several radios, had to navigate on a map, were coordinating the movement of the unit and might be subject to ground fire. So, I thought I was good with a cell phone and haven't had an accident with one.
But, I have missed turns or exits, have found myself drifting out of a lane, and someone riding with me pointed something out a couple times of which I wasn't aware.
So, I try to use it discretely in the car. I try not to take what might be an engaging call--like a business issue that is demanding or a personal call that might be stressful. Don't call in traffic. I will call on the freeway with it's not real busy and I have a way to go. Probably still not a perfect solution, but I see driver after driver wandering around out of their lane or not paying full attention because they are on a cell phone.

Yesterday, there was a guy in the wrong lane blocking traffic behind him trying to make a right turn from the middle lane. Signal on, fully stopped, fully engaged on his cell while people behind him honked and fumed. I try not to be like that.

Best,

Dave
 
Trapper John said:
Good point. I think car GPS units can be as big a distraction as cell phones if not used properly.

That said, I don't like to be around drivers yakking on their cell phones. But I'm for mandatory skills testing for driver license renewals, too...
Click to expand...

My buddy who owns a collision shop really likes the GPS things. Says they are almost as good for business as cell phones.
 
So when you get pulled over in the great city of Chicago for using a cell phone, just tell him you're an instrument-rated pilot. He'll let you go :yesnod:

And, those 2 brilliant pilots who MISSED Minneapolis for 150 miles were instrument rated, and distracted by their laptop. Doesn't say much for the ability to multitask...
 
The human brain inherently does a poor job of multitasking, and once someone gets engrossed in a conversation, it is difficult for them to remain focused enough on the driving to react to a change in the driving scenario.

Empirically, we have all seen highway drivers who drive in the left lane at 50mph, or who cannot manage to stay in their lane. Sure enough, once you get next them.... the person is engrossed in a phone call.

There have been many studies that show that hands free isn't much better than handsets. The problem is not the physical holding of the phone... it is the phone call stealing the brains cycles.

Although I have not seen any studies, I am certain that texting or emailing while driving is about 100x worse than phoning while driving. Nowadays - literally 90% of the time I see bad driving... sure enough, the person is texting/emailing on their cell phone.

Since it happens SO frequently, people must not adequately understand the risks, nor understand how impaired they are while texting/emailing on the phone. All it takes is one person ahead to come to an un-necessary stop, and they're gonna smash into the back of them. Possibly changing their lives (or ending it) forever.

In contrast... in aviation, we can multitask because second-by-second vigilence is not required. If we let go of the yoke for 5 or 10 seconds, or even longer, there is a pretty good chance we will stay approximately on the same heading and attitude. More importantly, there is very little chance that another plane cuts in front of us while flying.



gprellwitz said:
Okay, we've all heard that using the cell phone or, even worse, texting, while driving will KEEL YOU DEAD! But, we're pilots, right? We're TRAINED to multitask, especially if we're Instrument Rated! What do you have to say about the use of cell phones, for either voice or text, while driving? Does instrument training enter into it? Does It matter if it's hands-free? Is it more or less distracting than having screaming, bickering kids in the car with you? Or is having anything other than the traffic around you foremost in mind a Death Sentence? Sound Off!
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Funny, I JUST came to this thread after reading this from USAA (my insurer):

https://www.usaa.com/inet/ent_blogs...ewsroom&postkey=usaa_backs_legislation_to_ban

NHTSA actually does show that people using cell phones increases accidents (see links in bibliography of file below), but interestingly shows there is no significant difference between hands-free or hand-held cell phone use accident stats... for that reason, I find it funny for USAA to support legislation banning handheld but allowing hands-free use.

I won't even get into the topic of whether or not the Federal government should get involved in what some feel should be State's decisions, lest this get sent into SZ.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfile...ver Distraction/Wireless_Device_Biblio2k5.pdf

Research paper: Cell Phone Communication and Driver Visual Behavior: The Impact of Cognitive Distraction
 
Last edited:
Why just Cell Phones? Why not:

-smoking while driving (ever drop a lit cigarette and go fumbling for it?)
-drinking coffee while driving (ever drop hot coffee in your lap)
-eating while driving
-programming a GPS while driving
-trying to find a radio station you like while driving
-putting on makeup/shaving while driving
-spouses in the car with you:D
-screaming kids ("Don't make me stop this car!!!!")

Any and all of these can be distractions.
 
bstratt said:
Why just Cell Phones? Why not:

-smoking while driving (ever drop a lit cigarette and go fumbling for it?)
-drinking coffee while driving (ever drop hot coffee in your lap)
-eating while driving
-programming a GPS while driving
-trying to find a radio station you like while driving
-putting on makeup/shaving while driving
-spouses in the car with you:D
-screaming kids ("Don't make me stop this car!!!!")

Any and all of these can be distractions.
Click to expand...

Don't forget:
-Lane changes while driving
-Talking to a passenger while driving
-Thinking about something else while driving

Make it all illegal!
 
TangoWhiskey said:
NHTSA actually does show that people using cell phones increases accidents
Click to expand...
Cellphone usuage does increase accidents. But if you look at more of the research you will find that many driving distractions increase accidents. But none of them stand out over the others. That is to say that all distractions increase the likelihood of accidents by a similar percentage.

The question asked is why cellphone use is being singled out as a distraction when eating, smoking, reading, playing with the stereo all also equally raise the chances of an accident. Where is the no CD-players in car lobby? Why are there no one fighting to eliminate eating while driving and passing laws to have you pulled over for chomping on your bagel during the morning commute?

So what created the anti-cellphone movement?

Also should we be banning more distractions, making better drivers, or realizing that this is just something that we all have to learn to live with.
 
rottydaddy said:
Driving can't really be compared to flying when it comes to multitasking... driving is like being on final the whole time.

In fact, it's like being on final with some knucklehead idling on the runway in front of you, a much faster aircraft screaming in on a 10-mile final behind you, and someone turning against traffic to cut you off. And none of them notice the danger because they're all too busy "multitasking". :D
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.
 
smigaldi said:
So what created the anti-cellphone movement?
Click to expand...

But cell phones today are far more than just phones...and some activities that you can perform with these "phones" are more hazardous than others. Texting, for instance...


Trapper John
 
I answered my cell phone on final once.

There were studies done and it showed that talking to a passenger in the car had the same distraction effect that talking on a cell phone did. The only advantage talking to the passenger had was the passenger (assuming not blind) could see, and help warn of, any traffic issues.
 
Trapper John said:
But cell phones today are far more than just phones...and some activities that you can perform with these "phones" are more hazardous than others. Texting, for instance...


Trapper John
Click to expand...
Police have full laptops in their vehicles and are typing license plate info and other things into them. They are talking on the radio and driving. Many times without anymore driver training than a citizens yet, no one is talking about removing all the technology form police cars, even though they too have seen an increase in their accident rate.

GPS, dispatch systems, etc. all consist of technology that requires interaction. The texting phenomenon is relatively new and most of these studies that come out are only dealing with voice calls. What I am saying is that there is not enough data to show that increase complexity of cellphones is the root cause of there issue. I am also repeating that for incidents of accidents cellphones cause as many as eating, smoking, using the stereo, etc of your car. Yet no one is speaking of banning those in automobiles.

We still have not even gotten to the one issue that is causing more accident than all of those distracting actions combined. That would be driving while fatigued.
 
Flying and driving are very different as others have said. I can let go of the controls in the plane and do something else and if I wander slightly off course for a second or two, no biggie. If I do that in the car on I-95 I could be under an 18 wheeler in a heartbeat.
 
rottydaddy said:
Driving can't really be compared to flying when it comes to multitasking... driving is like being on final the whole time.
Click to expand...

Final is easy. I was thinking more along the lines of running a narrow river below treetop level with bridge crossings (go under, not over) every mile. How many pilots are willing to say down there and take their eyes off that environment for 20 seconds, or more realistically, 45 minutes?

IMO, the cellphone=safe mindset is subjective. Just because the so called driver got from point A to point B safely without seeing a single separation conflict, doesn't mean that person didn't run 3 other vehicles off the road or caused others to aggressively maneuver to avoid impact.

It doesn't matter whether it's a cellphone, tv, gps, newspapers, doing makeup, dinner, screaming at the kids in the back seat, closing their eyes or doing a puzzle in the trunk.

Driver training? Yea right. Driving is a right, not a privilege in this country. No training or experience is required nor encouraged.


Hang up, look out the windows, and drive.
 
Anthony said:
Flying and driving are very different as others have said. I can let go of the controls in the plane and do something else and if I wander slightly off course for a second or two, no biggie. If I do that in the car on I-95 I could be under an 18 wheeler in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

Why would that be? Is you car so out of alignment that you must hold the steering wheel to prevent the car from veering off course?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Being on final is easy. It's hand flying in a cloud while copying a new clearance, finding it on the charts, entering it into the GPS, etc. that's a bigger deal.

Similar to flying: Drive, navigate, communicate. In that order. I have no issues with it.
Click to expand...

I used to think that way, but I don't anymore. For two reasons:

1. Our talking to ATC during flight is "on topic" and related to our flying task.

2. As Anthony mentioned, the margin for error. Flying IFR we have a large protected airspace around us (unless we're not paying attention to terrain/obstacles). The next lane on the road isn't very far away.

Because of these two reasons, I keep my cell phone use in the car to an absolute minimum.
 
jtheune said:
Why would that be? Is you car so out of alignment that you must hold the steering wheel to prevent the car from veering off course?
Click to expand...

You can have a correctly aligned vehicle, but road crown, wind, curve superelevation versus travel speed and other factors come into play.


Trapper John
 
I used to wear a CVC helmet with three frequencies and tank intercom all yakking at the same time while in the commander's hatch of an M-1 Tank.

Talking on the cell while driving ain't no big deal. I do it every day during a 1:20 commute from/to work on a fairly congested, high speed interstate (I-79, where the state speed limit is 70, but de facto is 80)
 
Anthony said:
Flying and driving are very different as others have said. I can let go of the controls in the plane and do something else and if I wander slightly off course for a second or two, no biggie. If I do that in the car on I-95 I could be under an 18 wheeler in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...
I think you are right on with this. When you are driving there is often a car or an obstacle within 5-10 feet of you. How many times does that happen in an airplane?
 
I find driving harder than flying, personally. Probably that's because I live and drive in the New York City metro area, where knuckleheads are all over the roads. (Yeah, there are a few in the air, too, but far fewer.)

I also have a CDL and used to drive tankers (propane deliveries, toxics, and other HAZMATs), which is a different world from that of driving cars. Driving trucks requires (and helps drivers develop) much better skills in the areas of observation, focus, behavior prediction, and general driving. Sometimes I entertain passengers by accurately predicting what other drivers are going to do. It's just a knack you develop when driving something that is essentially a bomb on wheels and which takes a loonnnng time to stop at highway speeds.

Nonetheless, I still find it extremely unnerving to use a handheld phone while driving. I don't have any problem using hands-free phones while driving, whether they be of the headset or speakerphone variety. I find them no more distracting than talking to a person sitting next to me. I usually use the Onstar phone for outgoing personal calls because it has excellent voice recognition and number storage and seems to handle ambient noise better than my cell. For business calls I use the speaker feature on my cell phone because I don't want clients to have the Onstar number.

I wouldn't even try text messaging while at the wheel. I sometimes will read and answer text messages while at a red light or while stuck in traffic (usually by replying "driving ttyl"), but that's it. I have yet to get a truly important text message, anyway; and anyone who is able to text me obviously has my cell number and can call me if it's really that important.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
I find driving harder than flying, personally. Probably that's because I live and drive in the New York City metro area, where knuckleheads are all over the roads. (Yeah, there are a few in the air, too, but far fewer.)
Click to expand...

Good point -- it really depends on the context. Driving in Manhattan at 1600 on Friday is different than I-90 West of Butte, MT.
 
Certainly some people are better at dealing with multiple conversations at the same time. Prior to 9/11 I would occasionally visit active towers and TRACONs. I was
always interested in the controller's ability to interrupt his/her conversation with me,
talk to the pilot that just called, and then pick up the conversation without a hiccup.
 
EdFred said:
There were studies done and it showed that talking to a passenger in the car had the same distraction effect that talking on a cell phone did. The only advantage talking to the passenger had was the passenger (assuming not blind) could see, and help warn of, any traffic issues.
Click to expand...

One difference I see in talking in person rather than on the phone is that lulls in conversation are acceptable in person--People feel that they need to keep talking while they are on a phone call.
________
Z500/Z550
 
Last edited:
TangoWhiskey said:
NHTSA actually does show that people using cell phones increases accidents (see links in bibliography of file below), but interestingly shows there is no significant difference between hands-free or hand-held cell phone use accident stats... for that reason, I find it funny for USAA to support legislation banning handheld but allowing hands-free use.
http://www.carleton.ca/hotlab/hottopics/PDF/trbovich_harbluk.pdf
Click to expand...

The accident statistics don't show accident rates have increased.
All the studies show increased risk, but that hasn't translated into
increased rates. What am I missing?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Being on final is easy. It's hand flying in a cloud while copying a new clearance, finding it on the charts, entering it into the GPS, etc. that's a bigger deal.

Similar to flying: Drive, navigate, communicate. In that order. I have no issues with it.
Click to expand...

A good point, but what I mean is that unlike hand flying in a cloud, there's less margin for error. In a car, you generally can't afford to diverge even 10 feet from your present "heading"without hitting something, and you often have to make changes in power and heading. Come to think of it, it's a lot more demanding of one's attention than being on final. I guess a better analogy would be taxiing, faster than normal, on a busy, complex system of narrow taxiways with many obstructions, while fiddling with things while trying to taxi safely. Most of us "master multitasker"-type pilots know better than to "drive" an airplane like that. It's amazing how many drivers don't get it, considering the speeds involved.

But yes, it's a matter of priorities. First things first. And careless drivers don't necessarily need a mobile gadget to distract them; there used to be plenty of lousy drivers out there long before the advent of cellphones, GPS, PDAs, pagers and onboard video displays.
but again, I'm not talking about talking while driving, I'm talking about texting, dialing, and generally twiddling with toys instead of concentrating on the important task.
That's why I love my in-ear dealie: I can answer or hang up by simply touching it, and I don't have to worry about shifting while on the phone. Makes a huge difference!! I avoid dialing while driving, unless it's a very opportune moment, but being able to handle incoming calls hands-free is pretty easy and very handy when the call is important. I'm not distracted by conversation while driving... no different than talking to someone sitting in the car with you.
But many drivers can't even manage that- when I see a driver gesticulating with one hand out the window and their head turned towards the person next to them as they talk, I give them a very wide berth.
 
Last edited:
rottydaddy said:
....

when I see a driver gesticulating with one hand out the window and their head turned towards the person next to them as they talk, I give them a very wide berth.
Click to expand...

I guess you avoid the Italian neighborhoods altogether.

(I'm of Italian descent, so I'm allowed to say that. :D )

-Rich
 
I've been driving, talking, texting, and e-mailing on a cell phone since day one of my driving. I have yet to ever have an accident. Are there times where using the cell phone is too much workload for me? Sure. I don't use it then.
 
RJM62 said:
I find driving harder than flying, personally. Probably that's because I live and drive in the New York City metro area, where knuckleheads are all over the roads. (Yeah, there are a few in the air, too, but far fewer.)
Click to expand...

I still talk on my cell phone while driving in Manhattan. I just make sure to hide it when cops are looking.
 
Driving is much closer to formation flying than being on final.

Head and eyes need to be on the primary task.

That said I still dial and answer the phone before turning it over to my wife who is legally blind. I don't text but will check my email when stopped at a light.
 
Is there evidence that hands-free actually reduces accident rates?

As with everything else, it's about not being careless (wanted to say stupid, but.... :)). Don't text or call when it's too busy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top