Career Change to Aviation (CFI)

[Scott_M]

I've been out of flying for about 20 years. I now have money to go along with my desires to fly. I have always been solid on the book knowledge of aviation and a bit lacking on the hand-on manipulation skills, mostly due to long periods between flights. I'm assuming the knowledge will return after some concentrated study. I have my Private ASEL, and Instrument, nearly 200 TT. I love instrument flying. I'm assuming I can pass a 2nd Class Medical. I'm 56 years old, single with no debt, and 2-3 years of current monthly expenses sitting in my checking account ($75-100k). I'm in the Nashville, TN area.

My plan is find a busy Part 61 or Part 141 school with a steady stream of students. One might say I want to find a good place to work as a CFI-II and do my flight training for Commercial and CFI-II with that school, and then work for them. I briefly worked at American Flyers in south Florida during the 1990s and it seemed almost all of their CFIs were hired from the ranks of freshly graduated students. There is an ATP (brand name) school nearby and a competitor at the same field. I haven't heard very much good about ATP. I do recognize the benefits of Part 141 and like the organization that should come from them.

What questions should I ask potential schools/employers, and whom in the school should I ask? Every "boss" will claim his business is perfect for all customers. My personality pushes me away from the "jump in and see what happens" approach and my Scottish heritage wants me to have a solid and realistic game-plan before I start start "shredding" hundred dollar bills and see where I end up.

My first idea is that CFI-II is the "target" just because I don't know what else to aim for. I'm thinking night cargo might be a better fit, but I don't know how to get there and my personality is more introverted so I have no contacts. I can live on $40 - 50K/year and I have previously worked nights for almost 2 decades. I hear burn-out is common among CFIs, so maybe it's not the goal I should aim toward.

I'd appreciate any constructive comments, criticism, or revisions.

 

[Clip4]

A Class 3 medical is all that is needed to instruct. Most schools have more opportunity to teach private students. A community college or university may provide you the most revenue opportunity. You will be very challenged to earn $40k and without any benefits (health insurance or PTO) at most places + you are going to have to be available work 7 days a week to do that. Weather, broken aircraft, and student cancellations will kill your best laid plans.

There is no reason to talk employment until you have the certificates. Until then you are just another student wanting the dream.

At age 56, $75k in savings, 200 hours, no flying experience the last 20 years, and needing a Commercial and CFI certificate, I’d pass aviation as a occupation.

 

[SethV]

If you enjoy teaching, its a great way to fly. No need to enroll in a big school. You are already getting close to commercial mins. Get that done, work on the CFI, which is mostly self study anyway. Part time CFI is also an option if you want to keep your day job.

I prefer to independent contract CFI vs working for a school. Rate is 3x better and its easy to set my own schedule. I do it part time and its more than enough to pay for my wife's 3 horses. So its not bad - horses make airplanes look cheap! We spend more on them every year than our SR22!

 

[BladeSlap]

A Class 3 medical is all that is needed to instruct. Most schools have more opportunity to teach private students. A community college or university may provide you the most revenue opportunity. You will be very challenged to earn $40k and without any benefits (health insurance or PTO) at most places + you are going to have to be available work 7 days a week to do that. Weather, broken aircraft, and student cancellations will kill your best laid plans.

There is no reason to talk employment until you have the certificates. Until then you are just another student wanting the dream.

At age 56, $75k in savings, 200 hours, no flying experience the last 20 years, and needing a Commercial and CFI certificate, I’d pass aviation as a occupation.

If he already has the hours getting his commercial and CFI won’t be that big of a deal, just studying.

Money wise, I think he could hit 50k and still have a couple days off a week if he is smart about it and picks a good school

Medical, if he has to get one, why not get a 2nd class, it’s basically the same as a 3rd but he could also do ferry flights, tours, etc.

 

[schmookeeg]

I can think of no better way to ruin a love of flying than turning it into a job.

 

[Craig]

I'd suggest dropping Nate (denverpilot) a note and talk with him a bit. He essentially did the same thing a few years ago, until some medical issues sidelined him for a while.

 

[jordane93]

It will be tough to do 40K full time. When I was full time instructing, I was working almost 7 days a week and maybe made 40K. I still lived at home and went to a cheap state school so I didn’t really have a lot of other expenses which made it bearable.

 

[Zeldman]

I was working almost 7 days a week and maybe made 40K. I

Wow....darn rich kids....

When was this.?? I instructed from Aug96 to Feb98 and made a total of 28K. I thought I was doing good because I lived in my old Rv on the airport so no rent, and the airport had a small restaurant on field where I got lunch free. But there is no free lunch because I had to make myself available for fueling aircraft 24 hours a day. (I did have one day off a week)

 

[Gary Ward]

I've been out of flying for about 20 years. I now have money to go along with my desires to fly. I have always been solid on the book knowledge of aviation and a bit lacking on the hand-on manipulation skills, mostly due to long periods between flights. I'm assuming the knowledge will return after some concentrated study. I have my Private ASEL, and Instrument, nearly 200 TT. I love instrument flying. I'm assuming I can pass a 2nd Class Medical. I'm 56 years old, single with no debt, and 2-3 years of current monthly expenses sitting in my checking account ($75-100k). I'm in the Nashville, TN area.

My plan is find a busy Part 61 or Part 141 school with a steady stream of students. One might say I want to find a good place to work as a CFI-II and do my flight training for Commercial and CFI-II with that school, and then work for them. I briefly worked at American Flyers in south Florida during the 1990s and it seemed almost all of their CFIs were hired from the ranks of freshly graduated students. There is an ATP (brand name) school nearby and a competitor at the same field. I haven't heard very much good about ATP. I do recognize the benefits of Part 141 and like the organization that should come from them.

What questions should I ask potential schools/employers, and whom in the school should I ask? Every "boss" will claim his business is perfect for all customers. My personality pushes me away from the "jump in and see what happens" approach and my Scottish heritage wants me to have a solid and realistic game-plan before I start start "shredding" hundred dollar bills and see where I end up.

My first idea is that CFI-II is the "target" just because I don't know what else to aim for. I'm thinking night cargo might be a better fit, but I don't know how to get there and my personality is more introverted so I have no contacts. I can live on $40 - 50K/year and I have previously worked nights for almost 2 decades. I hear burn-out is common among CFIs, so maybe it's not the goal I should aim toward.

I'd appreciate any constructive comments, criticism, or revisions.

I agree, flight instructing could be a tough way to make a living. So many schedule changes and you fly in the worst conditions on all days of the week. You need to be available since there will be many cancellations. That would drive me crazy. It would be like working 24/7 for what?

I thought about the instructors I see at my airport. I am landing after a morning flight and the conditions are getting terrible up there(hot and bumpy) and off they go into it.

No thanks...

 

[NorthEast Ohio]

Step one: get in shape. The journey you are about to embark on is not made for 56-year-old bodies. Do some weight training to help cope with the stress of primary students trying to kill you all day. Add-in cardio to counteract effects of being crammed motionless in a training aircraft.
Step two: you mentioned night cargo — get there — get your 500 hours or whatever the bare minimum is to get that part 135 job. At least you know you’ll be flying that night, and every night, thunderstorms, hail, blizzard’s be damned.
Step three: get 1500 hours and go to a bottom feeder commuter airline. The equipment is maintained, so you won’t die. You still won’t make any money, but at least you’ll have a flight attendant who will hand you a can of Diet Coke before every leg.
Step four: if you’re lucky, sometime before you retire, Congress will pass the age 67 mandatory retirement age (because that’s what it is in Japan right now) and you will have the opportunity to fly a couple of years at the majors - and that’s when the big bucks roll in.

 

[sarangan]

I've been out of flying for about 20 years. I now have money to go along with my desires to fly. I have always been solid on the book knowledge of aviation and a bit lacking on the hand-on manipulation skills, mostly due to long periods between flights. I'm assuming the knowledge will return after some concentrated study. I have my Private ASEL, and Instrument, nearly 200 TT. I love instrument flying. I'm assuming I can pass a 2nd Class Medical. I'm 56 years old, single with no debt, and 2-3 years of current monthly expenses sitting in my checking account ($75-100k). I'm in the Nashville, TN area.

My plan is find a busy Part 61 or Part 141 school with a steady stream of students. One might say I want to find a good place to work as a CFI-II and do my flight training for Commercial and CFI-II with that school, and then work for them. I briefly worked at American Flyers in south Florida during the 1990s and it seemed almost all of their CFIs were hired from the ranks of freshly graduated students. There is an ATP (brand name) school nearby and a competitor at the same field. I haven't heard very much good about ATP. I do recognize the benefits of Part 141 and like the organization that should come from them.

What questions should I ask potential schools/employers, and whom in the school should I ask? Every "boss" will claim his business is perfect for all customers. My personality pushes me away from the "jump in and see what happens" approach and my Scottish heritage wants me to have a solid and realistic game-plan before I start start "shredding" hundred dollar bills and see where I end up.

My first idea is that CFI-II is the "target" just because I don't know what else to aim for. I'm thinking night cargo might be a better fit, but I don't know how to get there and my personality is more introverted so I have no contacts. I can live on $40 - 50K/year and I have previously worked nights for almost 2 decades. I hear burn-out is common among CFIs, so maybe it's not the goal I should aim toward.

I'd appreciate any constructive comments, criticism, or revisions.

Even the young 20 something don't survive a full time CFI job for too long. You would be crazy to consider that. How long can you live off vending machine food, and put up with students with bad attitudes, BO, and the ones who try to kill you in the air? If you are currently in a professional career, consider going half time, and then doing instructing as a part time activity. That way you have something else to fall back on.

 

[texasclouds]

I can think of no better way to ruin a love of flying than turning it into a job.

I get paid to fly jets that I’d never be able to afford to fly myself. The flying is great!

 

[Scott_M]

Even the young 20 something don't survive a full time CFI job for too long. You would be crazy to consider that. How long can you live off vending machine food, and put up with students with bad attitudes, BO, and the ones who try to kill you in the air? If you are currently in a professional career, consider going half time, and then doing instructing as a part time activity. That way you have something else to fall back on.

I am in the least professional business and desperately want out. I'm trying to find SOMETHING in aviation.

 

[Albany Tom]

If you said "least ethical", I'd think insurance, pharma, or government IT contractor. Not sure about least professional. If you want more professional, but aren't worried about ethics, you could try going into insurance, pharma, or government IT contracting. If you want to have a bit of ethics, you could try financial advising, tarot card reading, or sales.

Is there any way you can teach what you do, rather than actually do it?

 

[sarangan]

I am in the least professional business and desperately want out. I'm trying to find SOMETHING in aviation.

Most flight instructors I know who enjoy what they do and do a great job are the ones who have another career, or are retired.

 

[Racerx]

Now if you applied and got a DPE gig you'd be talking some $$$

 

[Scott_M]

If you said "least ethical", I'd think insurance, pharma, or government IT contractor. Not sure about least professional. If you want more professional, but aren't worried about ethics, you could try going into insurance, pharma, or government IT contracting. If you want to have a bit of ethics, you could try financial advising, tarot card reading, or sales.

Is there any way you can teach what you do, rather than actually do it?

I've spent 25-30 years in trucking and have enough money to get out. I can't stand the contempt with which everyone in society treats me once they find out my job, or while I do my job. I'd get more respect, or at least less disrespect, if I was a janitor at a slaughterhouse. Teaching people my job pays $10-15/hr instead of the $50-80k/yr while being gone and enjoying never seeing your home and eating nothing but fast-food. I'd jump off a bridge before working in retail or sales and would starve if I had to depend on my social network skills. I'm fairly introverted but can pretend to be normal when necessary.

I have 3 degrees from one of the prestige aviation universities and aviation felt like a home since the first time I found it. I just never made money with my degrees and licenses in aviation even though it was my identity. I need some ideas of how to work in the industry. My Scottish mind can't really justify spending my cash for just a hobby as expensive as flying and staying in my industry means my time off is more a theoretical possibility than anything else.

 

[Albany Tom]

Ah. I think you're listening to the wrong people. Good friend of mine was a lifetime truck driver. He started in the Air Force in England of all places, then worked for "parcel" in his words, with his last gig their taking "pups" from Latham to NYC every night. After he retired from UPS, I think he was pushing 70, he kept driving until he couldn't pass the medical. The only thing he every complained about was pulling doubles in the snow on the NYS Thruway. He believed that they shouldn't send out doubles in the snow. Mack gave him an award for more or less wearing out 2 or 3 tractors, IIRC.

Sounds like driving instruction is quite a bit lower pay than even CFI, so maybe it could work. But for both I don't know what the demand is, or the security.

 

[snglecoil]

Scott, I left a 26 year corporate gig to do what I should have done 26 years ago. I’m not far behind you in age. I unfortunately have to agree that CFI is no way to make any sort of living. Not that it can’t be done, but it is rare. The hours are long. The pay is a joke. The physical and mental drain is real…and yet I’m still loving every minute of it even if (or maybe because) CFI isn’t the end goal.

 

[Scott_M]

Ah. I think you're listening to the wrong people. Good friend of mine was a lifetime truck driver. He started in the Air Force in England of all places, then worked for "parcel" in his words, with his last gig their taking "pups" from Latham to NYC every night. After he retired from UPS, I think he was pushing 70, he kept driving until he couldn't pass the medical. The only thing he every complained about was pulling doubles in the snow on the NYS Thruway. He believed that they shouldn't send out doubles in the snow. Mack gave him an award for more or less wearing out 2 or 3 tractors, IIRC.

Sounds like driving instruction is quite a bit lower pay than even CFI, so maybe it could work. But for both I don't know what the demand is, or the security.

I have more than 2.5 million miles, and almost 30 years, of experience in my former industry doing everything and working all areas of the country and every possible schedule. I hate it. What I hate about it is getting worse. Traffic, lack of safe parking, and public driving inability has never been worse and is the primary complaint common to 3/4 of experienced drivers in the industry. I don't hate it because I've only worked in one distasteful sector, but the distasteful or unpleasant features are common to every flavor of work in the industry. My past industry doesn't reward professionalism. It is driving professionals out of the business to be replaced by recent immigrants and recently released convicted felons who think $35-45K per year and living in an 8 X 10 box 350 days a year is like winning the lottery. My monthly expenses are insanely low with a newish/reliable car, almost paid-off mortgage at half the current rate, etc. I could work part-time at McDonald's and keep increasing my nest egg, but I need a professional challenge and at least a possibility of some respect while doing my work. The only challenge I have in my last industry is how much longer can I go before one of the smartphone addicts, making a Tik Tok videos while they drive, eat, apply makeup next to me can stay in their lane? Being treated daily like a suspected hobo/serial killer and living like a stray dog isn't as much fun as it sounds. The money to be earned teaching the recent immigrants or felons how to do it is 1/3 - 1/2 what just doing the job pays.

 

[Albany Tom]

I didn't mean your viewpoint wasn't valid, I can't comment on that. I meant that anyone that doesn't think driving is a respectable job doesn't understand the job.

 

[Scott_M]

I didn't mean your viewpoint wasn't valid, I can't comment on that. I meant that anyone that doesn't think driving is a respectable job doesn't understand the job.

I appreciate your point. EVERYONE says they respect that job, or the people doing it. NOBODY, present company excluded, acts as if they respect it. On the road you're treated as an obstacle, at customers you are treated as the next hassle in line, and socially you might as well admit to smoking crack behind a Middle School. I appreciate your comments, and everyone else's. I need a reality-check and am open for all advice. Nothing you wrote offended me and I am desperate not to offend to anyone.

 

[noahfong]

Scott, I think you should pursue what you want to do and sounds like you're well positioned to do it. Start going for your commercial and then CFI/II. I suggest interviewing schools and instructors primarily for YOUR training. And you can consider their answers to determine whether you want to work for them (or along side them) when you get your ratings. Like some of the others, I have heard lousy things about some schools like ATP, both from a student and instructor perspective. However you decide, train around some syllabus and objectives so you can get these ratings in short time, like within 4-6 months.

Here's the thing: you can never tell where all this can take you. 56 is not too old for aviation. You can wind up with a flying job along the way. You can teach for while and wind up with a flying job, etc. And you'll never know unless you head down that path.

I would encourage you to do it because I was once in your shoes. I got my instrument rating when I was 56; commercial at 58. Got my CFI/II when I was 59. Still had my day job but taught a little and got a gig flying traffic watch. Didn't have any long range plans, just wanted to retire as an airport bum. But after I got 1500 hours friends and family convinced me to go to the airlines. I was really hestitant but I did my multi and MEI. I was almost 63 by then. I applied and got hired by a great regional and flew CRJs out of SFO until I had to retire at 65. This was 4 years ago. Best job I ever had and I am so thankful my family and friends didn't let me toss it away.

You never know where it could lead you.

 

[woodchucker]

Another option is to join a club that has a large number of members. My club has 70+ signed on and the club CFIs are kept as busy as they wish to be. And mostly NOT with primary students so you are not actively trying to be murdered (sarcasm) each lesson.

 

[neilki]

I've been out of flying for about 20 years. I now have money to go along with my desires to fly. I have always been solid on the book knowledge of aviation and a bit lacking on the hand-on manipulation skills, mostly due to long periods between flights. I'm assuming the knowledge will return after some concentrated study. I have my Private ASEL, and Instrument, nearly 200 TT. I love instrument flying. I'm assuming I can pass a 2nd Class Medical. I'm 56 years old, single with no debt, and 2-3 years of current monthly expenses sitting in my checking account ($75-100k). I'm in the Nashville, TN area.

My plan is find a busy Part 61 or Part 141 school with a steady stream of students. One might say I want to find a good place to work as a CFI-II and do my flight training for Commercial and CFI-II with that school, and then work for them. I briefly worked at American Flyers in south Florida during the 1990s and it seemed almost all of their CFIs were hired from the ranks of freshly graduated students. There is an ATP (brand name) school nearby and a competitor at the same field. I haven't heard very much good about ATP. I do recognize the benefits of Part 141 and like the organization that should come from them.

What questions should I ask potential schools/employers, and whom in the school should I ask? Every "boss" will claim his business is perfect for all customers. My personality pushes me away from the "jump in and see what happens" approach and my Scottish heritage wants me to have a solid and realistic game-plan before I start start "shredding" hundred dollar bills and see where I end up.

My first idea is that CFI-II is the "target" just because I don't know what else to aim for. I'm thinking night cargo might be a better fit, but I don't know how to get there and my personality is more introverted so I have no contacts. I can live on $40 - 50K/year and I have previously worked nights for almost 2 decades. I hear burn-out is common among CFIs, so maybe it's not the goal I should aim toward.

I'd appreciate any constructive comments, criticism, or revisions.

Firstly, good for you!
There' are folks in my Major Airline newhire class this month older than you. Should you wish to pursue an airline job -especially at this point in the cycle you stand a very good chance indeed.
CFI to Regional is a pretty well documented path, Regional pay is much, much better than it was a handful of years and I for one enjoyed teaching (and still do.)
Best of luck.
PM should you want to discuss.

 

[Chuck Cali]

I've been out of flying for about 20 years. I now have money to go along with my desires to fly. I have always been solid on the book knowledge of aviation and a bit lacking on the hand-on manipulation skills, mostly due to long periods between flights. I'm assuming the knowledge will return after some concentrated study. I have my Private ASEL, and Instrument, nearly 200 TT. I love instrument flying. I'm assuming I can pass a 2nd Class Medical. I'm 56 years old, single with no debt, and 2-3 years of current monthly expenses sitting in my checking account ($75-100k). I'm in the Nashville, TN area.

My plan is find a busy Part 61 or Part 141 school with a steady stream of students. One might say I want to find a good place to work as a CFI-II and do my flight training for Commercial and CFI-II with that school, and then work for them. I briefly worked at American Flyers in south Florida during the 1990s and it seemed almost all of their CFIs were hired from the ranks of freshly graduated students. There is an ATP (brand name) school nearby and a competitor at the same field. I haven't heard very much good about ATP. I do recognize the benefits of Part 141 and like the organization that should come from them.

What questions should I ask potential schools/employers, and whom in the school should I ask? Every "boss" will claim his business is perfect for all customers. My personality pushes me away from the "jump in and see what happens" approach and my Scottish heritage wants me to have a solid and realistic game-plan before I start start "shredding" hundred dollar bills and see where I end up.

My first idea is that CFI-II is the "target" just because I don't know what else to aim for. I'm thinking night cargo might be a better fit, but I don't know how to get there and my personality is more introverted so I have no contacts. I can live on $40 - 50K/year and I have previously worked nights for almost 2 decades. I hear burn-out is common among CFIs, so maybe it's not the goal I should aim toward.

I'd appreciate any constructive comments, criticism, or revisions.

You'll soon have your commercial. Since you're living in Nashville and considering your goals my suggestion would be to CONSIDER, working for Cirrus Aircraft as one of their corporate pilots. Their corporate team is primarily responsible for flying brand new Cirri from Duluth to Knoxville. Keep in mind Cirrus delivers at least one new airplane a day. 365 days a year. That's a lot of flying. As an employee, you can enjoy the benefits of subsidized flight training in the Cirrus Flying Club. There you can get your instructor ratings all the while moving up in their hierarchy of factory flight instructors. No I don't work for Cirrus. But I used to. At 56 you'll enjoy working with the young crowd at the Vision Training Center.

Best of luck.

 

[FlyingJohn]

I'm in a similar spot. I'm 60, over 500TT, all Cirrus, have my commercial, Instrument and am now working on CFI-I with the goal of working at the local FBO instructing as I ease into retirement. I don't need the money, but i enjoy teaching. There are opportunities for Part 135 charter at my FBO as well, its an active Cirrus Training Center.

 

[FlyingJohn]

You'll soon have your commercial. Since you're living in Nashville and considering your goals my suggestion would be to CONSIDER, working for Cirrus Aircraft as one of their corporate pilots. Their corporate team is primarily responsible for flying brand new Cirri from Duluth to Knoxville. Keep in mind Cirrus delivers at least one new airplane a day. 365 days a year. That's a lot of flying. As an employee, you can enjoy the benefits of subsidized flight training in the Cirrus Flying Club. There you can get your instructor ratings all the while moving up in their hierarchy of factory flight instructors. No I don't work for Cirrus. But I used to. At 56 you'll enjoy working with the young crowd at the Vision Training Center.

Best of luck.

I'd love to fly for Cirrus Need a few more hours but that would be for me a cool gig.

 

[ColoPilot]

Brainstorming here -- but instead of a CFI, would you consider a non-flying aviation job? It sounds like you really want to get out of your current gig, but the CFI ranks are filled with people who are only there to build hours to get to the airlines, so the pay is low, benefits are scarce, long hours etc. What about working at an airline in a ground position or even at an FBO? You might make more money than as a CFI, get better benefits (insurance, vacation) and you'd still be around aviation, even if not flying? If you get your commercial, you might be able to network around an FBO and find an occasional flying job like ferrying.

 

[Morgan3820]

I have more than 2.5 million miles, and almost 30 years, of experience in my former industry doing everything and working all areas of the country and every possible schedule. I hate it. What I hate about it is getting worse. Traffic, lack of safe parking, and public driving inability has never been worse and is the primary complaint common to 3/4 of experienced drivers in the industry. I don't hate it because I've only worked in one distasteful sector, but the distasteful or unpleasant features are common to every flavor of work in the industry. My past industry doesn't reward professionalism. It is driving professionals out of the business to be replaced by recent immigrants and recently released convicted felons who think $35-45K per year and living in an 8 X 10 box 350 days a year is like winning the lottery. My monthly expenses are insanely low with a newish/reliable car, almost paid-off mortgage at half the current rate, etc. I could work part-time at McDonald's and keep increasing my nest egg, but I need a professional challenge and at least a possibility of some respect while doing my work. The only challenge I have in my last industry is how much longer can I go before one of the smartphone addicts, making a Tik Tok videos while they drive, eat, apply makeup next to me can stay in their lane? Being treated daily like a suspected hobo/serial killer and living like a stray dog isn't as much fun as it sounds. The money to be earned teaching the recent immigrants or felons how to do it is 1/3 - 1/2 what just doing the job pays.

I am late to the thread. But for what it’s worth I admire and appreciate good truck drivers.

Back to the thread content though, I have an acquaintance who is a CFII with the his own plane. He does a pretty good job getting people their instrument rating. They come to him. From all over. He offers a compressed accelerated training program. And since everybody in the plane is a licensed pilot, his insurance is really low compared to primary instruction. He stays booked.

 

[Scott_M]

Brainstorming here -- but instead of a CFI, would you consider a non-flying aviation job?

Yes, I'd consider a non-flying position. I mentioned CFI/II because when I was in aviation there was an endless need for CFI, CFI was one of the most common paths to move from Commercial license to something more permanent. I worked at FBOs during college in FL. I briefly worked as a quasi-Maintenance Controller for a 5-727 Part 135 airline. I just don't know the aviation industry anymore and need help finding a target job and deciding on a roadmap to get there. Thank you for the reply