Carbon Fiber (CF) to Replace Plastic in Interior

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CherokeeGirl

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CherokeeGirl
Greetings.

I was wondering if this is something I can do myself (so long as I use an approved flame-retardant resin), if a shop needs to do it (not even sure where to find one), or if this simply isn't possible for a 40 year old plane.

CF isn't cheap compared to plastic, but when talking about aviation replacements it's less expensive when doing yourself. I can make a mold and make a one-off part for many interior covers and panels that will look nicer, be more rigid, wear down less over time, and be lighter than plastic replacement parts

I have read that carbon reacts with aluminum with moisture, but being interior and having many coats of resin on it seems sufficient to prevent that. I've called several shops that do aviation interiors, but no one I called works with CF or knows who does.

I looked at FAR §23.853 but didn't see anything that would keep this from happening.
Anyone here looked into or done it?
 
CherokeeGirl said:
I was wondering if this is something I can do myself
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Maybe. You're premise involves a number of different requirements/regs which you have not addressed as yet. For starters are you sure your aircraft was TC'd under Part 23 or CAR 3? Makes a difference. But safe to say with this path as stated you'll need at least a APIA to assist and more than likely a DER. Perhaps a discussion with your APIA first will get you up to speed on the requirements. But having installed a number of custom interiors with owners never used carbon fiber for various reasons.
 
What is the motivation behind using carbon fiber over fiberglass? How much work have you done with either?

As has already been pointed out, I'd start by asking your IA about the project. They should be able to help you determine the proper course of action.
 
I made replacement front armrests for my old 182RG out of the same foam, fiberglass and aluminum that I used when I was building my Velocity. Carbon Fiber is fine, but way overkill.
 
My exp Cub has carbon fiber interior and floor. My last Cub had Kydex interior and aluminum floor. I hate doing any kind of work to carbon fiber. Tasks as simple as drilling a hole make me itch for days. Nasty stuff. Kydex is way easier to work with.
 
If you just want the look of carbon fiber then go get the plastic parts dipped.
 
There is NWIH I would use carbon fiber unless I was looking for a clear coated carbon fiber finish, even then hydro dipping seems like a better solution.
 
I'm assuming the goal is to have the carbon fiber look. That will also be the biggest part of the problem with a project like this. I've done a lot of composite work and it is easy to make good parts when the surface will have some kind of finish coat on it. Especially if the part is not structural. If the goal is to have the carbon visible, that takes a lot of extra time to make things right.

The majority of the "carbon fiber" car parts that are for sale are just fiberglass with one or two layers of carbon fabric on them for the appearance. There is no way I would make someone a real carbon fiber hood or other component for the price you can buy the finished parts for; the materials alone would cost more and you haven't paid me for any labor time to make proper molds and finish the parts.

My suggestion to the OP would be to just make the replacement panels out of fiberglass mat and cheap resin if they're dying to do a composite project. Otherwise, just buy replacement panels. I bet it would take me the better part of a year to build all the molds and make the parts if I was working on it part time.
 
As bell said, and he knows the certification rules better than me, your dealing with a certified aircraft so you must have approved parts. I do not know of anybody that has pma or stc CF parts for the pa28. I doubt a shop that has the pma or stc could just sub CF under those documents. That leaves owner produced but that means having the approved data to make them. Best solution is having pma or stc parts dipped or rappd. That would fall under a finish witch would not need. Approval other than the log book entry for instillation.
 
Stewartb said:
My exp Cub has carbon fiber interior and floor. My last Cub had Kydex interior and aluminum floor. I hate doing any kind of work to carbon fiber. Tasks as simple as drilling a hole make me itch for days. Nasty stuff. Kydex is way easier to work with.
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Carbon to me doesn’t itch at all. Sounds like there might be some glass in there?

A new interior for the cessna is on my list. Was the cub interior raw kydex?
 
CherokeeGirl said:
Greetings.

CF isn't cheap compared to plastic, but when talking about aviation replacements it's less expensive when doing yourself. I can make a mold and make a one-off part for many interior covers and panels that will look nicer, be more rigid, wear down less over time, and be lighter than plastic replacement parts
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Just making molds will cost a lot of time and maybe money. You can't use the old parts as molds, or the new ones will be too big or too small.

Vantage Plane Plastics has PMA'd interior plastic stuff that's thicker and stronger than the original. The original stuff lasted 40 years; will you still own that airplane 40 years from now? It's easy to spend vast sums of money making stuff to last forever when there is no good reason to do so. There are better places to spend that money, like on more training to make you a better pilot, or on some decent radios, or better maintenance. Or a hangar.
 
You can get kydex overprinted with carbon fiber veneer. Easy to work with and great for molding to complex shapes. Stick it in the toaster for a few minutes, then lay on your original part and press-mold with towels, etc. Let cool and trim, drill, rivet, etc. I have made a few gun holsters and knife sheaths with it. No idea what the FAA thinks of it for airplanes though.

If all you want is the cosmetic effect on your existing plastic parts, you can get vinyl adhesive wrap with carbon fiber pattern.

Don't forget the blue glow light strips under the fuselage, for when you taxi up and down main street on Friday night. ;)
 
Ed Haywood said:
No idea what the FAA thinks of it for airplanes though.
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FYI: there are various specs of Kydex to include an aviation Kydex complete with burn tests. Its been used in aircraft interior for years. Whether you need the aviation spec or can use one of the other specs depends on how it's used in the aircraft. Have used it for various aircraft interior items in the past.
 
Ed Haywood said:
You can get kydex overprinted with carbon fiber veneer. Easy to work with and great for molding to complex shapes. Stick it in the toaster for a few minutes, then lay on your original part and press-mold with towels, etc. Let cool and trim, drill, rivet, etc. I have made a few gun holsters and knife sheaths with it. No idea what the FAA thinks of it for airplanes though.

If all you want is the cosmetic effect on your existing plastic parts, you can get vinyl adhesive wrap with carbon fiber pattern.

Don't forget the blue glow light strips under the fuselage, for when you taxi up and down main street on Friday night. ;)
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The cosmetic effect isn't important if it's only for an aesthetic. The desire to start with some non-structural pieces in the interior was to learn and perfect working with CF for future projects where size, complexity, and even structural necessity, come into play.
 
Thanks to everyone for all the info. I've learned a lot about induced galvanic corrosion with CF touching aluminum since starting this thread. Not a good day when your road bike falls apart, but probably your last day when this happens in an airplane.
 
CherokeeGirl said:
Thanks to everyone for all the info. I've learned a lot about induced galvanic corrosion with CF touching aluminum since starting this thread. Not a good day when your road bike falls apart, but probably your last day when this happens in an airplane.
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Don’t let your imagination stop you from using carbon. My Cub interior is all CF. Side panels and floor. All attached to nut plates in welded tabs. I have no corrosion concerns but I don’t plan to park it submerged in saltwater. And if something was to fail? It’d be a nut plate in a tab holding a non-structural interior panel. A friend up the road has a company that’s purpose is building carbon fiber airplane parts. Slats, fuel tank covers, engine cowls, cargo pods, interiors... very popular. No reported corrosion issues.
 
Stewartb said:
Don’t let your imagination stop you from using carbon. My Cub interior is all CF. Side panels and floor. All attached to nut plates in welded tabs. I have no corrosion concerns but I don’t plan to park it submerged in saltwater. And if something was to fail? It’d be a nut plate in a tab holding a non-structural interior panel. A friend up the road has a company that’s purpose is building carbon fiber airplane parts. Slats, fuel tank covers, engine cowls, cargo pods, interiors... very popular. No reported corrosion issues.
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Your Cub is also made of steel tubing, not aluminum. Big difference from the OP's airplane.
 
Every nut plate is attached with aluminum rivets and the rivets contact the CF. No sign of any corrosion. My autopilot servos and bracing are aluminum and attach in contact the CF. Cub wings are aluminum. Lots of CF tank covers flying. Nose bowls, too, including mine that attaches to an aluminum cowl. CF slats attach to aluminum leading edges. Lots of those around, too.
 
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