Canadians; willing to work for peanuts at regional airlines

James331

James331

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James331
Kinda sad, wonder what the unions think about this, we have a larger number of qualified pilots compared to Canada, but due to the airlines not paying a respectable wage not many people want to fly for them, now somehow they are able to hire non citizens to get around paying enough to attract American pilots???

Didn't realize 121 pilots were covered under NAFTA.

Sounds like it's time to call your congress critters up, and maybe also let this bottom feeder airline too 920-739-5123


"pilotrecruiting <pilotrecruiting@airwis.com>
RE: Sponsoring of Canadian Pilots

Thank you for your email. We are currently accepting some visas and could possibly offer the required assistant to sponsor your visa. If you need a H1B visa, this is done in April each year. Although our candidates for 2018 have already been selected, to be considered for 2019, please apply between October and December 2018. Please keep note the following:

1. You must successfully complete an interview for consideration as an First Officer with Air Wisconsin Airlines
2. At time of hire you must possess all FAA certifications and rating required by the FAA to operate as a commercial pilot
3. Prior to your start, you must obtain all legal work authorization documents qualifying your eligibility for work sponsorship
4. If you have not completed your ATP knowledge exam, you start training in our in-house CTP course that will provide you with the additional requirements (per FAA) to complete the ATP Knowledge exam
5. Your training can begin with as little as 1454 total flight time with all subcategory of time completed to the standard (Please visit our Pilot Calculator at www.airwis.com to see how much time you would need to gain)

A requirement of the position is the ability to travel in and out of the United States as we do fly to Canada. For a full list of requirements please see below. If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks!

Katrina Leavitt
Recruiting Coordinator | Air Wisconsin Airlines"
 
I’m not sure I understand your point, or question???
 
Kritchlow said:
I’m not sure I understand your point, or question???
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Ditto. The regionals have had historically crappy pay for the last, oh, 30 years or so. So, this is a news flash? Calling up your congressman or the airline will accomplish what, exactly??

And James, if you wanna get indignant towards the regionals, try getting ****ed at Mesa; they're pretty much bottom of the barrel these days with lotta foreigners working there. Judging from what I hear using the "Air Shuttle" callsign, they don't have too many 'Muricans left flying there...
 
I grossed ~80K as a 1.5 year FO at a regional and had anywhere from 15-20 days off a month. Some months I picked up a lot of stuff so it put me down to 9-11 days off. With the amount of hours our reserve captains in NYC credit, one can easily gross over 100K on 2nd year captain pay. I’m not complaining.
 
Well when they are using foreign workers to fly for an American company, just to get around paying Americans a proper wage, that's BS, and congress needs to make sure these airlines can't hand out visas when there are a larger number of qualified pilots in THIS COUNTRY.



jbDC9 said:
Ditto. The regionals have had historically crappy pay for the last, oh, 30 years or so. So, this is a news flash? Calling up your congressman or the airline will accomplish what, exactly??

And James, if you wanna get indignant towards the regionals, try getting ****ed at Mesa; they're pretty much bottom of the barrel these days with lotta foreigners working there. Judging from what I hear using the "Air Shuttle" callsign, they don't have too many 'Muricans left flying there...
Click to expand...

And this needs to be very public, especially in this climate where there is a chance people might do something to stop this type of BS from happening, it's simple have YOUR ELECTED officials say no visas for airline jobs, especially with how many ATPs are here vs other countries. We don't have the visa system to undermine Americans, especially in fields where we dominate the rest of the world.

I mean your argument about mesa being worse, that like telling a woman not to go to the police for a domestic violence complaint because her neghibor gets her arse beat much worse. Like really, that's the argument, "well someone else is worse"

Come on now, how about let's try for the change we want to see in the industry.
 
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Your conclusion about an innocuous email seems a little severe. Did you consider the possibility the airline has not received an adequate number of 2019 applicants and is enlarging their search area?

The email says they are accepting "some" visas, it doesn't sound like a major effort.
 
James331 said:
Well when they are using foreign workers to fly for an American company, just to get around paying Americans a proper wage, that's BS, and congress needs to make sure these airlines can't hand out visas when there are a larger number of qualified pilots in THIS COUNTRY.
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They are getting paid the same as any other pilot that gets hired. Same pay scale as everyone else at the company.

This isn’t new. It’s been going on as long as I have been in the industry. And it happens in more than just the airline industry.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
They are getting paid the same as any other pilot that gets hired. Same pay scale as everyone else at the company.

This isn’t new. It’s been going on as long as I have been in the industry. And it happens in more than just the airline industry.
Click to expand...

Yep same pay, same contract. I was hired back in '89. We had guys from Canada, England, Ireland, Australia, and probably a few other countries. Nothing new. Typical uninformed James and his grind towards the airlines. Seems to go out of his way, hmm wonder why...
 
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Where was the outrage, and the call for letters to congress when:
  • Irwin closed the Nebraska factory that made vise grip locking pliers and moved it to China? Literally 1/2 the town of DeWitt worked there.
  • Wal Mart told their suppliers to outsource their production to less expensive parts of the world or lose Wal Mart as a customer?
  • Big Pharma outsourced their R&D and API manufacturing to China and India?
  • And many others
 
3393RP said:
Your conclusion about an innocuous email seems a little severe. Did you consider the possibility the airline has not received an adequate number of 2019 applicants and is enlarging their search area?

The email says they are accepting "some" visas, it doesn't sound like a major effort.
Click to expand...
Why would you want to think that when you can turn it into a negative political diatribe?
 
mscard88 said:
Yep same pay, same contract. I was hired back in '89. We had guys from Canada, England, Ireland, Australia, and probably a few other countries. Nothing new. Typical uninformed James and his grind towards the airlines. Seems to go out of his way, hmm wonder why...
Click to expand...

Maybe you might be the one who needs a education on supply and demand, and when we have more pilots than other countries we shouldn't be giving visas for these jobs, if these companies want to serve the American market they can hire American pilots or GTFO.


Cap'n Jack said:
Where was the outrage, and the call for letters to congress when:
  • Irwin closed the Nebraska factory that made vise grip locking pliers and moved it to China? Literally 1/2 the town of DeWitt worked there.
  • Wal Mart told their suppliers to outsource their production to less expensive parts of the world or lose Wal Mart as a customer?
  • Big Pharma outsourced their R&D and API manufacturing to China and India?
  • And many others
Click to expand...

You're right, we should just be meek and not say anything, I mean somewhere there's something worse.


Spoiler alert, the only way the meek have come close to inheriting the earth is in little wood boxes.
 
When o worked at republic there was a pilot in my base the commuted from Italy. He was an Italian National. I worked with an Indian National at a charter job in Texas. crop dusting I have worked with Australians and people from New Zealand. As I think about it almost every flying job I’ve had for the last 20 years I worked with foreign nationals on visas.
 
James331 said:
Maybe you might be the one who needs a education on supply and demand, and when we have more pilots than other countries we shouldn't be giving visas for these jobs, if these companies want to serve the American market they can hire American pilots or GTFO.




You're right, we should just be meek and not say anything, I mean somewhere there's something worse.


Spoiler alert, the only way the meek have come close to inheriting the earth is in little wood boxes.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with it James as it's legal. Seems you might need to let Schumer know how you feel about legal immigration.
 
mscard88 said:
I have no problem with it James as it's legal. Seems you might need to let Schumer know how you feel about legal immigration.
Click to expand...

Because it's legal lol

Legal vs illegal lol!
just a matter of how large your check book is and your level of influence.


And I very much do let the people who serve us know how I feel.
When good people say nothing about bad policy, that's how society has ended up in some rather bad times throughout history.

Look, if there is a profession where the number of Americans qualified is very low, sure pass around some visas, but when there are plenty of qualified Americans, that's a whole nother unacceptable story.
 
H1b visas require a significant payment to the govt by the hiring company. There are other conditions and requirements that go gar beyond rate ofnpay. It's not the simple end around you imply it is.
 
James331 said:
Maybe you might be the one who needs a education on supply and demand, and when we have more pilots than other countries we shouldn't be giving visas for these jobs, if these companies want to serve the American market they can hire American pilots or GTFO.
Click to expand...
I'm one of those pilots in the USA population. At 250 hours, ASEL, no IFR rating, do you think I'm qualified for those jobs? How many of us who frequent this forum are qualified? What proportion of the US pilot population are qualified? Your statements may be correct, but you haven't made your case.

James331 said:
You're right, we should just be meek and not say anything, I mean somewhere there's something worse.

Spoiler alert, the only way the meek have come close to inheriting the earth is in little wood boxes.
Click to expand...
Well, where was your outrage when 1/2 of the good people of DeWitt, Nebraska, lost their jobs? What did you say? WTF did you do? Anything?
How about when you heard that your child's science teacher used to be part of a team synthesizing compounds for a cancer cure, but that was outsourced? What did you do then?

Your silly little letter to the congressman won't work unless it is written on a million dollar check- they only listen to that. And the airlines (and other companies) will continue to outsource/hire immigrants as long as they make money by doing so. And most Americans take the attitude I read (perhaps incorrectly) in your reply: "it's not my workplace, and look for the cheapest products"

So....what can one do?
Do our best to "buy American". You posted the name of the airline- Air Wisconsin. Take the next step- I'll help...for most of us, they are "American Airlines" (ironic) and "United Airlines". So fly "Delta" now.
I'll drive past the Walmart and shop at a place that (to the best of my knowledge) doesn't practice their aggressive outsourcing push.
I'll by locking pliers instead of "vise-grip". Even if I need to get the Chinese knockoff at Harbor Freight because I can't find the USA equivalent, I can at least reduce the amount of money they get in profit.
Everyone wants the government to do something, but this is a case where people can vote every time they go to the store. And for those of us who still have a manufacturing job, try to make the best product possible so American products are the best!
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I'm one of those pilots in the USA population. At 250 hours, ASEL, no IFR rating, do you think I'm qualified for those jobs? How many of us who frequent this forum are qualified? What proportion of the US pilot population are qualified? Your statements may be correct, but you haven't made your case.


Well, where was your outrage when 1/2 of the good people of DeWitt, Nebraska, lost their jobs? What did you say? WTF did you do? Anything?
How about when you heard that your child's science teacher used to be part of a team synthesizing compounds for a cancer cure, but that was outsourced? What did you do then?

Your silly little letter to the congressman won't work unless it is written on a million dollar check- they only listen to that. And the airlines (and other companies) will continue to outsource/hire immigrants as long as they make money by doing so. And most Americans take the attitude I read (perhaps incorrectly) in your reply: "it's not my workplace, and look for the cheapest products"

So....what can one do?
Do our best to "buy American". You posted the name of the airline- Air Wisconsin. Take the next step- I'll help...for most of us, they are "American Airlines" (ironic) and "United Airlines". So fly "Delta" now.
I'll drive past the Walmart and shop at a place that (to the best of my knowledge) doesn't practice their aggressive outsourcing push.
I'll by locking pliers instead of "vise-grip". Even if I need to get the Chinese knockoff at Harbor Freight because I can't find the USA equivalent, I can at least reduce the amount of money they get in profit.
Everyone wants the government to do something, but this is a case where people can vote every time they go to the store. And for those of us who still have a manufacturing job, try to make the best product possible so American products are the best!
Click to expand...

Exactly my point

Never knew about Dewitt because people didn't speak up enough.
 
Personally I think pilots should make at least 50k a flight. It’s only fair
 
James331 said:
Exactly my point

Never knew about Dewitt because people didn't speak up enough.
Click to expand...
What about the rest of them? The other companies besides Irwin? This stuff goes on everyday. I'd rather the government not micromanage a business and tell them what is best. We encourage companies to send these jobs overseas, or hire people to come here and do the jobs because we want the cheap products- the US citizen votes with their money. And they vote to send jobs to outsiders. Then, when their job goes away, they run crying to the government, and they still will shop at Walmart.
 
Maybe if all the middle eastern and other foreign airlines would fire all of their American pilots, we wouldn’t have to hire foreign pilots here.
 
You kidz are cray.

You can't have peanuts on the airlines. There could be someone with an allergy.

The pilots should be working for free booze on the airline. Much more attainable goal to work toward.

[Edit: I may have misunderstood this thread]
 
Cap'n Jack said:
What about the rest of them? The other companies besides Irwin? This stuff goes on everyday. I'd rather the government not micromanage a business and tell them what is best. We encourage companies to send these jobs overseas, or hire people to come here and do the jobs because we want the cheap products- the US citizen votes with their money. And they vote to send jobs to outsiders. Then, when their job goes away, they run crying to the government, and they still will shop at Walmart.
Click to expand...

Micromanage, no, say if you're running a airline in America, and with plenty of qualified American pilots, the government will refuse to issue visas for hiring cheap pilot labor, that's not micro managing at all, it's just refusing visas to bottom feeders.

SkyDog58 said:
Maybe if all the middle eastern and other foreign airlines would fire all of their American pilots, we wouldn’t have to hire foreign pilots here.
Click to expand...

Perfect example of where visas DO make sense, the mid east has VERY few native pilots, they don't really even have a GA scene, especially compared to the US.

And.. if the airlines here had to deal with supply and demand based on their offerings to AMERICAN pilots, they'd pay enough that people wouldn't be flying in the Mid East, because God knows if the pay and benifits were the same most all American pilots would much prefer to stay in the US vs going over there.

CC268 said:
Personally I think pilots should make at least 50k a flight. It’s only fair
Click to expand...

All jokes aside, you'll know when it's fair pay as you'll have no problem filling your cockpit with pilots.

I think the magic number for a ATP in a type rating level aircraft is 100k clean (as in protected CBA pay without counting come and go bonuses or anything) a year.
 
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Ravioli said:
You kidz are cray.

You can't have peanuts on the airlines. There could be someone with an allergy.

The pilots should be working for free booze on the airline. Much more attainable goal to work toward.

[Edit: I may have misunderstood this thread]
Click to expand...

I take a large bag of peanuts with me on most flights. If the stews don’t serve peanuts due to an allergic person on board, I just eat my own.
 
James331 said:
Micromanage, no, say if you're running a airline in America, and with plenty of qualified American pilots, the government will refuse to issue visas for hiring cheap pilot labor, that's not micro managing at all, it's just refusing visas to bottom feeders.



Perfect example of where visas DO make sense, the mid east has VERY few native pilots, they don't really even have a GA scene, especially compared to the US.

And.. if the airlines here had to deal with supply and demand based on their offerings to AMERICAN pilots, they'd pay enough that people wouldn't be flying in the Mid East, because God knows if the pay and benifits were the same most all American pilots would much prefer to stay in the US vs going over there.



All jokes aside, you'll know when it's fair pay as you'll have no problem filling your cockpit with pilots.

I think the magic number for a ATP in a type rating level aircraft is 100k clean (as in protected CBA pay without counting come and go bonuses or anything) a year.
Click to expand...
You haven't yet shown there are plenty of "qualified American Pilots".

Do you think it's a good idea for the government to tell @Jay Honeck or @Tom-D who they can hire for their businesses ( so long as they are legal; not picking on you guys, I know you run businesses, I've no idea who you hire)? If so, why not also stop the IT corporations, pharmaceutical, manufacturing, and other companies that outsource or obtain visas for cheap labor. If not, why should any business be singled out?
 
Cap'n Jack said:
You haven't yet shown there are plenty of "qualified American Pilots".

Do you think it's a good idea for the government to tell @Jay Honeck or @Tom-D who they can hire for their businesses ( so long as they are legal; not picking on you guys, I know you run businesses, I've no idea who you hire)? If so, why not also stop the IT corporations, pharmaceutical, manufacturing, and other companies that outsource or obtain visas for cheap labor. If not, why should any business be singled out?
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There are people with atp ratings that are unwilling to work for the airlines. Several of the guys in my new hire class atvrepublic left Aviation for other career fields. With all of them it was a pay issue. Not saying there are tens of thousands qualified pilots out there but there are more than a couple hanging around.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
There are people with atp ratings that are unwilling to work for the airlines. Several of the guys in my new hire class atvrepublic left Aviation for other career fields. With all of them it was a pay issue. Not saying there are tens of thousands qualified pilots out there but there are more than a couple hanging around.
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Thank you for that. Now how about the rest of us? Why should I support this when I see no support of other professions being treated the same way?
 
Cap'n Jack said:
You haven't yet shown there are plenty of "qualified American Pilots".

Do you think it's a good idea for the government to tell @Jay Honeck or @Tom-D who they can hire for their businesses ( so long as they are legal; not picking on you guys, I know you run businesses, I've no idea who you hire)? If so, why not also stop the IT corporations, pharmaceutical, manufacturing, and other companies that outsource or obtain visas for cheap labor. If not, why should any business be singled out?
Click to expand...

I never said that, American companies can hire any American to work in America, and unless there is a MAJOR lack of talent for said profession no visa.


Thought I was clear on that.


And I forgot where the numbers were for how many CPLs/ATPs/CFIs, but I'll eat my damn boot if there is a country with more pilots than us.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Thank you for that. Now how about the rest of us? Why should I support this when I see no support of other professions being treated the same way?
Click to expand...
That sounds more like pouting than a reasoned opinion.
 
James331 said:
Because it's legal lol

Legal vs illegal lol!
just a matter of how large your check book is and your level of influence..
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter what you think. It is legal and has been going go for a long time. Until the law is changed it will continue.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Thank you for that. Now how about the rest of us? Why should I support this when I see no support of other professions being treated the same way?
Click to expand...
I’m not taking sides in this debate. It will become political very quickly.

I was merely pointing out there are qualified pilots not working at the airlines because of pay/quality of life.
 
Not sure how it is today but back in the 80"s I was thinking of moving to Australia. A friend who was an Australian citizen told me don't even try, they won't give you a visa to work there.
 
James331 said:
Maybe you might be the one who needs a education on supply and demand, and when we have more pilots than other countries we shouldn't be giving visas for these jobs, if these companies want to serve the American market they can hire American pilots or GTFO.
Click to expand...

But, but... they’re immigrants with actual merit, and the Canadians don’t have guns. Win -win for ‘Merica!!!!
 
I thought there was a developing global pilot shortage? Shouldn't that be pushing up pay and perks?

Retiring baby boomers, fewer military trained pilots, flight training units unable to keep instructors thus impacting student output (regionals stealing instructors with fewer hours now), youngsters no longer starry eyed about careers in aviation,...
 
GRG55 said:
I thought there was a developing global pilot shortage? Shouldn't that be pushing up pay and perks?

Retiring baby boomers, fewer military trained pilots, flight training units unable to keep instructors thus impacting student output (regionals stealing instructors with fewer hours now), youngsters no longer starry eyed about careers in aviation,...
Click to expand...

Pay is going up. James is misinformed as usual.
 
Cooter said:
That sounds more like pouting than a reasoned opinion.
Click to expand...
No, unless you like the government telling people how to run their businesses. I'm certain you didn't read my earlier replies, otherwise you wouldn't have made the reply that you did. You would then have seen the background behind my comment. I'd rather keep the government out of most private enterprise. I'd prefer not to have the government tell you who you can hire. I'd prefer we buy from American businesses when practical who hire American workers. It gets ugly when government legislates things we should do for ourselves as a society.

I do support James' complaint about hiring people from outside.
 
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