Can the rotor guys weigh in on this?

[Kritchlow]

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/p...ssenger-reaches-control-lever-shocking-moment

Soecifically…
1) Passenger up front in a fixed wing seems a whole lot more benign than in a rotor.
Thoughts?

2) I always thought the Capt sat right seat in a rotor. Not that it matters much, but the lever would be more out of reach for the passenger.

3) Is there not a safety mechanism for the brake to be disabled in the air? Not that you’d want to try it… tantamount to trying to pull the gear up on the ground.

4) Why did the Capt appear to adjust the handle in flight? Almost an invitation imo.

Thanks

 

[3393RP]

He pushed up on the rotor brake lever to make sure it was in the stowed position.

 

[Kritchlow]

He pushed up on the rotor brake lever to make sure it was in the stowed position.

Okay… wouldn’t you do that BEFORE fight?
I really don’t know. I’m not a rotor guy expert.
Perhaps it’s a recurring item to make sure??

 

[Kritchlow]

Okay… wouldn’t you do that BEFORE fight?
I really don’t know. I’m not a rotor guy expert.
Perhaps it’s a recurring item to make sure??

Wouldn’t there be some sort of lock on the handle? Perhaps not automated, but lock the handle as part of a pre take off check?

 

[midwestpa24]

Okay… wouldn’t you do that BEFORE fight?
I really don’t know. I’m not a rotor guy expert.
Perhaps it’s a recurring item to make sure??

Maybe the passenger touched it before the video started so he was making sure it was stowed, when they grabbed it again?

 

[Bell206]

2) I always thought the Capt sat right seat in a rotor.

Depends on the type and configiration. Some have STCs to move PIC to left side. However, the one in the vid is an EC130 which was factory with LH pilot and was designed for the tourist industry. There are 2 pax seats up front next to the pilot. So there is a 2nd pax next to the one in the video.

3) Is there not a safety mechanism for the brake to be disabled in the air?

No. There are some that have a mechanical lockout when the throttles are in the same quadrant, but most dont. Some also have indicator light(s).

4) Why did the Capt appear to adjust the handle in flight?

My guess she touched the handle prior and he was ensuring she didnt move it. Then she touched it again. My bet the video was edited for effect.

 

[Velocity173]

1) Anytime a passenger is up front fixedwing or rotor, there’s a threat of them touching things that they shouldn’t be touching. Can’t for the life of me figure out why you’d have a tourist up front. Especially after the NYC Hudson accident where the passenger shut off the fuel valve with their foot.

2)PIC can sit in any seat in a helicopter unless it’s single pilot and RFM states a specific seat. In the 130, the PIC sits left. If a B407 was used, the controls are set up right but a passenger could still easily reach the rotor brake from left.

3) Nope. You pull it in flight, a lot of strange noises, rotor droops and you fall out of the sky like a brick.

4) Not sure why the pilot grabbed the rotor brake inflight. I’ve never done that. The check is on the ground to ensure it’s latched. Ain’t like it loosens inflight. I agree, by doing that he sparked the interest of the passenger to do the same. Again, in my opinion, no commercial op should allow passengers to sit in a seat with access to controls.

Of course, there are rare cases where a passenger up front can be beneficial.

Accident Bell 407 N34BM, Wednesday 26 October 2022

On October 26, 2022, about 1711 central daylight time, a Bell 407 helicopter, N34BM, was destroyed when it was involved in an accident in the Gulf of Mexico, about 25 miles south of Morga...

aviation-safety.net

 

[Paul V]

Passengers just do weird stuff and need to be watched. I’ve fortunately never had anyone deliberately grab controls or push buttons but have had passengers inadvertently bump into the cyclic while swinging their arms. I had another passenger that kept falling asleep and falling onto the collective. I had to position my shoulder to keep her away.

This on top of the typical passengers stepping on the floats that clearly are marked “NO STEP” and slamming the doors like they are getting into a 1950’s truck.

 

[Kritchlow]

Thanks to all that responded. Seems like there “should be” an in flight lock out mechanism, or at least some sort of guard on the lever.

 

[Bell206]

Seems like there “should be” an in flight lock out mechanism

FYI: on this model there is a lock-out pin that locks the handle in the closed and open postion. So just grabbing it wont move the handle. But just to clarify even if she were to move the handle it would not cause the aircraft to immediately drop out the sky. The engine has more than enough power to over come the brake force. Now after a few minutes you'll probably have a nice fire going on with the brake similar to a wheel brake fire after a heavy landing on larger aircraft.

 

[Maxnr]

Most brakes use a simple hand operated hydraulic pump with a clip to hold it in place. The early Sikorsky 76's had a electrically operated hydraulic brake. Of course, its circuity plus weight on wheels (WOW) switch protected against in flight activation and activation above RPM idle limits.
The switch was on the console right next to the float arming switch. I had a new co pilot that was too cool to accept helpful pointers and often, blindly turned the Rotor Brake to "ON" short final. Finally, I asked him to verify "Floats armed" and he swallowed his gum when he saw what he did.

 

[k9medic]

1) Anytime a passenger is up front fixedwing or rotor, there’s a threat of them touching things that they shouldn’t be touching. Can’t for the life of me figure out why you’d have a tourist up front. Especially after the NYC Hudson accident where the passenger shut off the fuel valve with their foot.

2)PIC can sit in any seat in a helicopter unless it’s single pilot and RFM states a specific seat. In the 130, the PIC sits left. If a B407 was used, the controls are set up right but a passenger could still easily reach the rotor brake from left.

3) Nope. You pull it in flight, a lot of strange noises, rotor droops and you fall out of the sky like a brick.

4) Not sure why the pilot grabbed the rotor brake inflight. I’ve never done that. The check is on the ground to ensure it’s latched. Ain’t like it loosens inflight. I agree, by doing that he sparked the interest of the passenger to do the same. Again, in my opinion, no commercial op should allow passengers to sit in a seat with access to controls.

Of course, there are rare cases where a passenger up front can be beneficial.

Accident Bell 407 N34BM, Wednesday 26 October 2022

On October 26, 2022, about 1711 central daylight time, a Bell 407 helicopter, N34BM, was destroyed when it was involved in an accident in the Gulf of Mexico, about 25 miles south of Morga...

aviation-safety.net

RIP JT... Great guy and a good friend.

 

[Velocity173]

RIP JT... Great guy and a good friend.

Did they ever determine what the medical issue was? Incapacitated pilot training is a hot topic at work these days.

 

[k9medic]

Believed cardiac.