Can I still be a pilot?

Lindberg said:
Thank you for proving my point.
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And what point was proven other than my arrest being expunged was complete and utter nonsense and that I apparently have a conviction? Is that what you mean by "proving your point"?
 
And am I the only one that is now expecting the op to start threatening people by internet?
 
Weekend Warrior said:
And you don’t seem to get it. I personally don’t care what is or is not on your record. And for crimes like “threatening people by telephone” neither does the faa as long as you report it to them. But you are saying BECAUSE there is no jail time, no probation, etc, it’s not on my record. W R O N G
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I never said that either. I just don't get why people keep saying I was convicted when no of the above what I said didn't even happen.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
And what point was proven other than my arrest being expunged was complete and utter nonsense and that I apparently have a conviction? Is that what you mean by "proving your point"?
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Please respond to my 2 replies to you.
 
Weekend Warrior said:
That durn internet
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well agree to disagree you wanna believe that bs then you can. I never said it was off my record I was implying about the part about the conviction, but ok yes I was convicted even though like I said I didn't go to jail, was never on probation or didn't even paid a fine. Don't know how that makes sense. Hell you probably think I'm lying my ass off about all of this.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
You don't get it either do you? A lawyer never told me anything like that I was saying that I don't see how I was convicted when I didn't even serve no jail time, didn't pay a fine, nor was I put on probation. The judge never said anything like that to me either.
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So what words *did* the judge use?
Did he or she use the word "acquitted"? Or "dismissed"? Or "a guilty plea has been accepted"? Or what?
This would really help to clarify the matter.

Not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the first two mean there was not a conviction, but the last one means there was (even though the word "conviction" isn't used). Right?
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
well agree to disagree you wanna believe that bs then you can. I never said it was off my record I was implying about the part about the conviction, but ok yes I was convicted even though like I said I didn't go to jail, was never on probation or didn't even paid a fine. Don't know how that makes sense. Hell you probably think I'm lying my ass off about all of this.
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Ok then let me rephrase: if you are saying that BECAUSE there was no jail time, THEN there was no conviction, that is also wrong. It doesn’t mean YOU were convicted or not.
 
kath said:
So what words *did* the judge use?
Did he or she use the word "acquitted"? Or "dismissed"? Or "a guilty plea has been accepted"? Or what?
This would really help to clarify the matter.

Not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the first two mean there was not a conviction, but the last one does (even though the word "conviction" isn't used). Right?
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Judge referred me to this diversion program I had to do for a few months. In result the charge was "Noelle prossed" and in addition to that after that I got a letter saying that I was eligible to get my arrest expunged since I completed the diversion program. I sent in the paperwork and got a copy or the expungement order. And before you say anything a diversion isn't the same as probation.
 
Seems as thought if op can't stay calm while getting feedback on an internet forum perhaps op would have trouble handling an emergency situation with some semblance of calm.
 
Just because I'm "that kind of guy" I'd like to ask @Rolloofthenorm why the hell they did a "diversion program" in association with a non-arrest / non-crime / non-conviction.

Also, what part of "ever been arrested" is confusing? You think you saw a judge to get your magic eraser at your own behest, or were you arrested? That's a yes.
 
Ravioli said:
Just because I'm "that kind of guy" I'd like to ask @Rolloofthenorm why the hell they did a "diversion program" in association with a non-arrest / non-crime / non-conviction.

Also, what part of "ever been arrested" is confusing? You think you saw a judge to get your magic eraser at your own behest, or were you arrested? That's a yes.
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You clearly missed what I said so I'm not explaining myself.
 
Since weather has grounded my lunch flight plans and windows updates are preventing me from using xPlane for fun, this thread is the best thing I have going this morning.. (sad, I know)
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
You clearly missed what I said so I'm not explaining myself.
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I believe the correct radio call would be, "Boston Approach, Cirrus 4Q2, you clearly missed what I said so I'm not explaining myself." ATC nor the FAA will have any issues with that attitude, provided it's prefaced with the correct identifiers.

An admittedly snarky way of suggesting that your biggest hurdle, at least as evidenced in this thread, to a pilot's certificate, may not be whether or not you have to disclose your arrest (you do). It'll be the way you handle yourself.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
You clearly missed what I said so I'm not explaining myself.
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I CLEARLY read that you were arrested. The answer to "have you ever been arrested" is YES.
I CLEARLY read you completed a diversion program. The answer to "have you ever been convicted" is YES.
I CLEARLY read your question as to whether that effects your ability to become a pilot. The answer to that is probably no.

You've had replies from Lawyers, Law Enforcement Officers, and others who "may have had previous arrests" and you continue to argue the point.

My personal reference point: I was arrested when I was 18. The case was "dismissed in furtherance of justice." [Note: DISSMISSED] Guess what, it still shows in CBP records, I report Yes to "Have I ever been arrested" and No to "Have I ever been convicted."
 
Ravioli said:
I CLEARLY read that you were arrested. The answer to "have you ever been arrested" is YES.
I CLEARLY read you completed a diversion program. The answer to "have you ever been convicted" is YES.
I CLEARLY read your question as to whether that effects your ability to become a pilot. The answer to that is probably no.

You've had replies from Lawyers, Law Enforcement Officers, and others who "may have had previous arrests" and you continue to argue the point.

My personal reference point: I was arrested when I was 18. The case was "dismissed in furtherance of justice." [Note: DISSMISSED] Guess what, it still shows in CBP records, I report Yes to "Have I ever been arrested" and No to "Have I ever been convicted."
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Well from my understanding a diversion program isn't the same as a conviction either. Here is what I found: "PTI (pre-trial intervention) doesn't require the charge to be pled to prior to participation, thus there is never a conviction. In fact, successful completion of PTI results in the charge being dismissed and expunged from your record".
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Well since you want to sit up here and tell me that my arrest wasn't expunged then go right ahead
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You definitely have comprehension problems. I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING OF THE SORT.
I said your statements were INCORRECT in general. I don't give a damn about whether you were convicted or not, expugned or not. What I'm stopping is you extrapolating incorrectly your situation to people in general who might believe your statements were correct and suffer for it.


I find it very funny that people are sitting up here saying I was convicted and my record isn't expunged when I have talked to multiple people about the issue.
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I didn't say that. I can't vouch for others. Vent your frustrations at them but what I said was 100% true. What we're disagreeing with is these statements you made:

Here in South Carolina "expunged" applies to arrests which is not strictly true. Your arrest record may be expunged along with the other records in the process, but just because you were arrested doesn't automatically qualify you for an expunction. You either, as I pointed out, must be found not guilty, get officially nolle prosqui'd, or go through a PTI.

All I'm going to say to that is since there was no jail time at all then there's no conviction. This is ludicrously incorrect. The vast majority of convictions do not result in jail time, but they are still convictions.

The fact that you insist on picking fights here indicates a strong tendency of a psychiatric disorder (I'm tending toward NPD).
 
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Ravioli said:
I CLEARLY read that you were arrested. The answer to "have you ever been arrested" is YES.
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Arrests only matter on the medical if they are from an incident involving drugs or alcohol. Making harassing phone calls doesn't count.
I CLEARLY read you completed a diversion program. The answer to "have you ever been convicted" is YES.
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South Carolina PTIs do not result in convictions. If that is what happened, the answer is NO. Not only is it not a conviction, it doesn't involve any guilty plea or other admission of guilt.

As far as MEDEXPRESS goes, he likely can answer NO based on what he said.
As far as job applications go (with small exception), he can answer NO.
CBP issues are a different story. They are allowed to ask things that others are forbidden from law from asking including whether you committed any crimes that you were not prosecuted or convicted of.
 
Ravioli said:
Also, what part of "ever been arrested" is confusing? You think you saw a judge to get your magic eraser at your own behest, or were you arrested? That's a yes.
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I think this may reflect part of the confusion here. Note that the question on the FAA form, 18v, having to do with arrests, only has to do with arrests that are for drunk driving, drug, or traffic related.

The OP’s arrest, as he stated early in this thread, was for a misdemeanor crime of harassment in a telephone call. Therefore he does NOT have to answer yes to 18(v).

Question 18 (w) asks about convictions for misdemeanors or felonies. If the OP was told he was not convicted by his lawyer or the judge, it does seem reasonable to answer no to this question.

As suggested, it might be wise to obtain a Federal background check to see how it is recorded or review the copies of the expunction paperwork to see what they actually say if one wants to cautious. Particularly because after investigation it is unlikely that the FAA would deny the medical because of a misdemeanor conviction for telephone harassment, IF the record stated that, whereas lying on the 8500-8 is a felony and FAA instruction is to report even expunged records (though there may be some basis to challenge that if one has the time, money, and is willing to take the risk).
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Well from my understanding a diversion program isn't the same as a conviction either. Here is what I found: "PTI (pre-trial intervention) doesn't require the charge to be pled to prior to participation, thus there is never a conviction. In fact, successful completion of PTI results in the charge being dismissed and expunged from your record".
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Maybe the POA community doesn’t have all the facts, but PeterNSteinetzs’ answer seems to me to be possible.
But too, instead of arguing about everyone’s belief on how many angels could dance on the head of a pin someone with more knowledge than me could try and help Rollo out here?

Is there not a way to test the theories? He seems on the verge of packing it in anyway and just forgetting about being a pilot because he feels defeated before he even starts. Is there some way he could actually find out before investing time and money in lessons if it can lead to a PPL?

As for attitude, Rollo, I agree with the person upstream that mentioned how difficult and the attitude that one needs to learn to fly. It is very difficult and one has to learn to parse tricky questions to even pass the exam. Has to read, and not just go with what one thinks the question is, but reread and figure out if you assumed something that wasn’t in the question. Likewise one has to be a good deal humble to take in the lessons in flying. Often an instructor can feel like a drill instructor, and get on your case about what you think is not that important, but you have to be able to take criticism and also accept it or even embrace it. At the same time you have to build confidence in your abilities. It’s like threading the eye of a needle.

I hope you can get some advice and use it, find out.
 
Palmpilot said:
I notice that the OP has been subjected to a lot of personal attacks in this thread.
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I noticed that also. I believe he has also by and large refrained from returning that in kind. Which sort of argues against the hypothesis of his being psychologically incapable of handling stresses in the cockpit.
 
Ravioli said:
@Rolloofthenorm - Maybe I wasn't clear. I asked what the diversion program for "illegal use of a telephone" entails.
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What more do you need to know? Its a diversion program nothing more nothing less. Honestly it sounds like you're trying to get information out of me that is completely irrelevant.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
I noticed that also. I believe he has also by and large refrained from returning that in kind. Which sort of argues against the hypothesis of his being psychologically incapable of handling stresses in the cockpit.
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Well, if he noticed the reception and self-corrected then that is a good sign.
 
Deelee said:
...It is more like being a sponge and absorbing an insane amount of knowledge...
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When I decided to become a pilot, I felt intimidated by the amount of stuff that needed to be learned. I dealt with this by telling myself that I only needed to learn one thing at a time. It worked!
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
What more do you need to know? Its a diversion program nothing more nothing less. Honestly it sounds like you're trying to get information out of me that is completely irrelevant.
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Certainly irrelevant to the question of the FAA medical form. Perhaps just curiosity since it is an unusual crime and Ravioli was apparently arrested at 18 for something.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Certainly irrelevant to the question of the FAA medical form. Perhaps just curiosity since it is an unusual crime and Ravioli was apparently arrested at 18 for something.
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Speaking of medical I have a history of depression
 
Palmpilot said:
I notice that the OP has been subjected to a lot of personal attacks in this thread.
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That would be me. And I stand by it. He seems incapable of following simple logic and was impatient and rude from the first response.
 
Salty said:
That would be me. And I stand by it. He seems incapable of following simple logic and was impatient and rude from the first response.
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I think others were piling on.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Perhaps just curiosity since it is an unusual crime and Ravioli was apparently arrested at 18 for something
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The question was preceded by "But now I'm curious..." And I'm 53, so my little scrap with the law was 35 years ago, and I get to answer the questions accordingly forever.
 
Palmpilot said:
I think others were piling on.
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Me too, to an extent. I don't need someone that's impatient and rude behind me in the pattern. That said, if he's capable of self-correction, then that's a good sign of required maturity.
 
alfadog said:
Me too, to an extent. I don't need someone that's impatient and rude behind me in the pattern. That said, if he's capable of self-correction, then that's a good sign of required maturity.
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Have you seen any sign whatsoever of a willingness to self-correct? I sure haven't.
 
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