Can I still be a pilot?

Rolloofthenorm said:
Here in South Carolina "expunged" applies to arrests also I'm not going to explain myself again so believe whatever you want to believe. I know what was said and what happened when I went to court.
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I am not licensed to practice in your state, so I will allow that your state may have its own unique legal definition of the word "expunged." But you asked the question why we assumed you had been convicted. I told you the answer. I am not running you down for using that term. But I will say that you seem quite rude as well as ungrateful to people that have tried to provide you free assistance in response to your questions.
 
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Under Texas State Law, an order of expunction is only available to persons who have been acquitted by a judge or jury in a criminal trial, persons whose charges have been dismissed and the applicable waiting period has elapsed, or persons arrested but never indicted or charged by information. I believe most states follow suit.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
out of pocket? theres no financial aid you can get?
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Rollo, just so you know, you don’t have to plunk down the money all in one lump sum. He was talking about how much it would cost total. Usually if you join a flying club there is a member fee, and some others, and you pay as you go, renting the airplane and instructor time. Costs differ with different clubs.

if you are really interested you could go to FAA.gov and start reading the student pilots guide for example to get an idea of the curriculum. I am an electronics technician and I know for sure I wouldn’t have been able to handle learning electronics AND ground school at the same time. There is a lot to learn aside from flying with an instructor. Aerodynamics, flight theory, weather (that is a tough one), formulas, a lot of memorization, mechanics and how all instruments work, rules and regulations (that also is a tough one), radio communications, medical related to flying, navigation, etc. you can see the categories in the free downloadable student pilot guide.

One thing you can do, and if I were you I would, read a little from the student pilot guide, and then just contact a local club or school and take a “discovery flight”. You can ask what they charge, and they will take you up, and you will get to fly a little there and then and see if it really is something you enjoy and want to pursue!

The people here at TGP are incredibly helpful, and it seems like you are getting off on the wrong foot here by seemingly assuming folk are putting you down or sniping at you. They really aren’t, they are trying to help. But it’s not a great idea to tell folks that are going out of their way to help to go “look it up”, etc. they don’t need to be assigned homework. Also, that situation you had years ago, I think they’ve answered that it isn’t disqualifying for getting your license (PPL) as a pilot.

I wish you luck!
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Well again you want to believe that then go ahead. Hell I wasn't even put on probation or anything neither so I don't really where you came up with that answer.
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You made an assertion of logic-- no jail time necessarily implies no conviction. That's not true. I am not saying you were convicted. Your reading comprehension is bad, and you are overly defensive. These are not good traits for a pilot. So, I would suggest you not bother with trying to become one. You are more likely than the next student to kill yourself or others.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Well again you want to believe that then go ahead. Hell I wasn't even put on probation or anything neither so I don't really where you came up with that answer.
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Considering the professions of the people I know EXACTLY where they come up with it. And they are correct. One is a lawyer and the other a police officer.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Here in South Carolina "expunged" applies to arrests also I'm not going to explain myself again so believe whatever you want to believe. I know what was said and what happened when I went to court.
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With your attitude, please don't become a pilot. Thank you.
 
EdFred said:
The FAA does not acknowledge or recognized sealed or expunged.
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That is the FAA instruction. As the other thread discussed at some length, there may be grounds for a legal challenge if someone wanted to be the test case.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
That is the FAA instruction. As the other thread discussed at some length, there may be grounds for a legal challenge if someone wanted to be the test case.
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I've never been arrested. Was in the back of a cop car once. Car accident, was raining. Cop didn't want to take statements in the rain.
 
EdFred said:
I've never been arrested. Was in the back of a cop car once. Car accident, was raining. Cop didn't want to take statements in the rain.
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I think a good test case would be someone convicted for something that wouldn’t affect flying in any arguable way and it was expunged.

But good test cases tend to be rare. Also has to be someone with the means to fight it, because it would likely go at least to appellate court, and after the work in the administrative hearing, would likely cost $100k+ .
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Here in South Carolina "expunged" applies to arrests also I'm not going to explain myself again so believe whatever you want to believe.
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That's not strictly true. Arrests themselves do not meet a requirement for expunction in South Carolina. If the defendent is found not guilty in court or the prosecutor formally decides not to prosecute (null prosqui), then everything (not just the arrest) is eligible for expunction.

This is not the only expunction in your state. After PTI or certain minor first offense charges, the records may also be expunged.

But your statement that there was no conviction because there was no jail time is ludicrous. People are convicted all the time subject to only fines and/or probation.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
I think a good test case would be someone convicted for something that wouldn’t affect flying in any arguable way and it was expunged.

But good test cases tend to be rare. Also has to be someone with the means to fight it, because it would likely go at least to appellate court, and after the work in the administrative hearing, would likely cost $100k+ .
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Money is not the only cost if you lose the challenge.
 
Palmpilot said:
Money is not the only cost if you lose the challenge.
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That’s true. I guess they could try to convict on the felony of lying on the form, though that might be mitigated if you had a pre-existing opinion letter on the subject, which would argue that you had good grounds to believe you did not have to disclose. I would have to check the statute, but I think this is not a strict liability crime so requires mens rea.

I imagine would definitely pull your certificates as well.

Serious risks, which is one of the reasons such test cases are rare.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
That’s true. I guess they could try to convict on the felony of lying on the form, though that might be mitigated if you had a pre-existing opinion letter on the subject, which would argue that you had good grounds to believe you did not have to disclose. I would have to check the statute, but I think this is not a strict liability crime so requires mens rea.

I imagine would definitely pull your certificates as well.

Serious risks, which is one of the reasons such test cases are rare.
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I know the laws often don’t work as laymen like me believe they are meant, or ought to.
But isn’t the whole purpose of expunging records of arrest, or conviction, to wipe out the damaging effects of it on a persons options and opportunities? I believe expungement is often used in juvenile cases for example where a kid made a mistake and the court does it by recognizing that a minor made a dumb mistake but one that could ruin their lives and options later. So recognizing that that is too much of a punishment not in line with the crime.

But the idea that one then cannot “forget and move on” but would have to fill in on any employment form, or if asked, that yes, they have been arrested/convicted even if they then are in a worse situation if they also don’t tell the whole story, because the employer or whoever then reads it imagines the worse. So it ends up decidedly not expunged and defeats the whole purpose of expungement.
It’s a little like the idea some people have apparently that exercising your right to refuse to allow a search of your car by police when asked, automatically would give “reasonable suspicion” that a person has something illegal. It negates the whole purpose.
 
flyingron said:
That's not strictly true. Arrests themselves do not meet a requirement for expunction in South Carolina. If the defendent is found not guilty in court or the prosecutor formally decides not to prosecute (null prosqui), then everything (not just the arrest) is eligible for expunction.

This is not the only expunction in your state. After PTI or certain minor first offense charges, the records may also be expunged.

But your statement that there was no conviction because there was no jail time is ludicrous. People are convicted all the time subject to only fines and/or probation.
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Well since you want to sit up here and tell me that my arrest wasn't expunged then go right ahead and believe that like I said I know what was said to me when I went to a lawyer for legal help and I knew what the judge said about it to. I find it very funny that people are sitting up here saying I was convicted and my record isn't expunged when I have talked to multiple people about the issue.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Well since you want to sit up here and tell me that my arrest wasn't expunged then go right ahead and believe that like I said I know what was said to me when I went to a lawyer for legal help and I knew what the judge said about it to. I find it very funny that people are sitting up here saying I was convicted and my record isn't expunged when I have talked to multiple people about the issue.
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If you think anyone on this thread said that your arrest wasn't expunged, then frankly you simply aren't smart enough to be a pilot. Save your money. Not a single person said that. You have serious reading comprehension issues. You'd never pass the written test.
 
As a fairly newly certificated private pilot, I can speak a little to the attitude a student candidate needs to have going in to this. It is more like being a sponge and absorbing an insane amount of knowledge, some of it which makes little sense at first and some which seems to contradict. If the student/candidate has the mindset of challenging the instructor and pushing back on corrections and direction, they won't get very far.

The concept of checking your ego at the door is a good way to put it. Even if you think you are right - you aren't. Take instruction/advice from those who know more than you (CFIs, most people on this board) absorb it, process it. Don't challenge it. Realize that people are trying to help you - your CFI trying to help you realize your dreams of becoming a pilot. People on this board trying to do the same, in a smaller way.

OP needs to either change the overall attitude toward what it takes to learn and succeed at this. Becoming a pilot was the most difficult thing I have done in my life (college, career, family). One of the ways I was able to succeed was to just absorb all information I could from the study materials, my CFIs and yes even lurking on this board throughout my training (don't think I posted more than one or two times when I was doing my training).

Anyway, good luck to OP. For me, I'm going to exercise my rights and privileges if these clouds clear out of here and flying out to HGR for a $300 burger.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Well since you want to sit up here and tell me that my arrest wasn't expunged then go right ahead and believe that like I said I know what was said to me when I went to a lawyer for legal help and I knew what the judge said about it to. I find it very funny that people are sitting up here saying I was convicted and my record isn't expunged when I have talked to multiple people about the issue.
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It was expunged at the state level.
The feds do not recognize expungement.

South Carolina says you are squeaky clean.
The feds say you were arrested and you were convicted.

Think of it like marijuana laws. It's legal in quite a few states but possession and use is still illegal at the federal level.

Why is this so hard for you to understand??
 
LongRoadBob said:
I know the laws often don’t work as laymen like me believe they are meant, or ought to.
But isn’t the whole purpose of expunging records of arrest, or conviction, to wipe out the damaging effects of it on a persons options and opportunities? I believe expungement is often used in juvenile cases for example where a kid made a mistake and the court does it by recognizing that a minor made a dumb mistake but one that could ruin their lives and options later. So recognizing that that is too much of a punishment not in line with the crime.

But the idea that one then cannot “forget and move on” but would have to fill in on any employment form, or if asked, that yes, they have been arrested/convicted even if they then are in a worse situation if they also don’t tell the whole story, because the employer or whoever then reads it imagines the worse. So it ends up decidedly not expunged and defeats the whole purpose of expungement.
It’s a little like the idea some people have apparently that exercising your right to refuse to allow a search of your car by police when asked, automatically would give “reasonable suspicion” that a person has something illegal. It negates the whole purpose.
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This ties right into societal expectations. In general Americans are assholless and want felony offenders to pay for their entire lives. Shoot in most states you can’t even get a barbers license if you have a felony on your record. So to me it is not s surprise that some of our administrators go to the extreme of saying your expungements are meaningless. It essentially means there is no way to ever fully pay your debt to society.

No wonder we have the lowest rate of criminal reform and the highest % of our population locked up.
 
EdFred said:
It was expunged at the state level.
The feds do not recognize expungement.

South Carolina says you are squeaky clean.
The feds say you were arrested and you were convicted.

Think of it like marijuana laws. It's legal in quite a few states but possession and use is still illegal at the federal level.

Why is this so hard for you to understand??
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And to you I say this... I Don't see how I was convicted even though I didn't pay a fine or was put on probation, but you want to believe that too then go ahead
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
And to you I say this... I Don't see how I was convicted even though I didn't pay a fine or was put on probation, but you want to believe that too then go ahead
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Again, the question you’ll have to answer is, “have you ever been...” not “is there a record of..”
 
If I was the OP and people kept responding and telling me I was wrong based on their own incorrect assumptions, I might also have a bad attitude.

@Rolloofthenorm Carry on. You should not have any issues from the FAA based on what you've presented here. Go fly.
 
Lindberg said:
If I was the OP and people kept responding and telling me I was wrong based on their own incorrect assumptions, I might also have a bad attitude.

@Rolloofthenorm Carry on. You should not have any issues from the FAA based on what you've presented here. Go fly.
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I do federal background checks. He’s wrong.

If I had a nickel for every person who has told me, “But my attorney said nothing would be on my record.”
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
And to you I say this... I Don't see how I was convicted even though I didn't pay a fine or was put on probation, but you want to believe that too then go ahead
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You can be convicted without either of those happening depending on the crime.

Request a FEDERAL background check and see what shows up.
 
Weekend Warrior said:
I do federal background checks. He’s wrong.

If I had a nickel for every person who has told me, “But my attorney said nothing would be on my record.”
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You don't get it either do you? A lawyer never told me anything like that I was saying that I don't see how I was convicted when I didn't even serve no jail time, didn't pay a fine, nor was I put on probation. The judge never said anything like that to me either.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
You don't get it either do you? A lawyer never told me anything like that I was saying that I don't see how I was convicted when I didn't even serve no jail time, didn't pay a fine, nor was I put on probation. The judge never said anything like that to me either.
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And you don’t seem to get it. I personally don’t care what is or is not on your record. And for crimes like “threatening people by telephone” neither does the faa as long as you report it to them. But you are saying BECAUSE there is no jail time, no probation, my attorney said so, etc, it’s not on my record. W R O N G
 
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