Can I still be a pilot?

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Rolloofthenorm

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Rolloofthenorm
Out of curiosity since I got arrested for a misdemeanor that I didn't go to jail for and it was expunged do I still have a chance at being a pilot?
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Out of curiosity since I got arrested for a misdemeanor that I didn't go to jail for and it was expunged do I still have a chance at being a pilot?
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Yes, you have a chance.

What was the charge?
 
So I'm assuming since no one else wants to answer after I said what the charge was then I'm guessing it's an automatic no?
 
There is no reason that you cannot become a pilot with that conviction, expunged or not. It might be an issue getting hired to work as a professional pilot. Maybe not.

If you have a history of drug dependence, that would be an issue for obtaining a medical certificate.
 
What the heck is "unlawful use of a telephone"? I'm imagining calling someone on the "do not call list", or calling and asking, "Is your refrigerator running?" lol
 
You're fine. There will be a question or two on the medical about arrests and convictions and you'll need to answer them truthfully - they do not say "are there records of", they say "have you ever". When it comes to legal records, there are no actual expunged records, the FAA can get to things because there were copies made before your local court expunged them.

Nobody is likely to care right now, but it would really suck to get 5 years down the road, be ready to move into professional flying and get caught in an audit.
 
Weekend Warrior said:
What the heck is "unlawful use of a telephone"? I'm imagining calling someone on the "do not call list", or calling and asking, "Is your refrigerator running?" lol
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I wondered the same thing... but surmised that it was probably a talking-or-texting-while-driving-without-a-handsfree-device type of infraction. OP.. inquiring minds.. ?
 
MuseChaser said:
I wondered the same thing... but surmised that it was probably a talking-or-texting-while-driving-without-a-handsfree-device type of infraction. OP.. inquiring minds.. ?
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A few years ago when I was younger I threaten someone over the phone, but I don't see what would make a difference by me telling you guys. It sounds like I have no chance anyway if I have to disclose it. Although I'm not 100% determined to becoming a pilot you expect me to believe that I'm still gonna find a pilot job?
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
A few years ago when I was younger I threaten someone over the phone, but I don't see what would make a difference by me telling you guys. It sounds like I have no chance anyway if I have to disclose it. Although I'm not 100% determined to becoming a pilot you expect me to believe that I'm still gonna find a pilot job?
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You seem to want a reason not to. Ok. Don’t.

That charge would not stop someone that really wanted it from becoming a professional pilot. The FAA cares if you were arrested for driving drunk or doing drugs, not if you yelled at someone over the phone. You will have to convince an employer that it’s not a problem, but that’s easy to do, if you don’t have an attitude problem.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
It sounds like I have no chance anyway if I have to disclose it.
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To be precise here: the question of disclosure of expunged convictions was discussed at length in another thread recently. In brief, FAA instruction is that you should disclose all convictions, even if expunged. There is no case law governing this issue explicitly and there are possibly some legal arguments that you should not have to disclose expunged convictions. Nonetheless, the law is unclear and if this were discovered, the legal fight would be a long, arduous and costly one, so the general advice is to disclose unless you are willing to be a test case.

I agree with @Salty however, that even if disclosed such a misdemeanor conviction would likely not be an issue to the FAA or future employers, unless it is indicative of an ongoing issue. The FAA may well require personality testing and/or psychiatric opinions to demonstrate that is not the case if you decide to continue pilot training.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
To be precise here: the question of disclosure of expunged convictions was discussed at length in another thread recently. In brief, FAA instruction is that you should disclose all convictions, even if expunged. There is no case law governing this issue explicitly and there are possibly some legal arguments that you should not have to disclose expunged convictions. Nonetheless, the law is unclear and if this were discovered, the legal fight would be a long, arduous and costly one, so the general advice is to disclose unless you are willing to be a test case.

I agree with @Salty however, that even if disclosed such a misdemeanor conviction would likely not be an issue to the FAA or future employers, unless it is indicative of an ongoing issue. The FAA may well require personality testing and/or psychiatric opinions to demonstrate that is not the case if you decide to continue pilot training.
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I don't know why people keep saying conviction even though I was never convicted to begin with.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
I don't know why people keep saying conviction even though I was never convicted to begin with.
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Sorry about that. If it was just an arrest and no conviction, and evidently did not involve drunk driving or drug use, you don't even have to report it on the FAA medical form. So no issues there.
 
You are talking about 18(w) correct?

I had to answer yes to 18(w) for a "event" between high school and Navy. AME had no issues whatsoever. My AME got a laugh out of it during my initial 3rd class medical. And he got a good laugh out of it when I renewed this spring.

**EDIT** No conviction so removed parts

You're fine. But don't freak out like this when flying :)

And I can best your story (unless you threatened someone famous or powerful). My buddy in college would make prank calls after getting plastered. He'd stir the pot pretty bad with whoever answered. One night he made call, totally random out of the phone book. The person was in Witness Protection. Yeouch did he get f'd for that call. Karma got him there :)
 
SC Code § 16-17-430 (2012)

(A) It is unlawful for a person to:

(1) use in a telephonic communication or any other electronic means, any words or language of a profane, vulgar, lewd, lascivious, or an indecent nature, or to communicate or convey by telephonic or other electronic means an obscene, vulgar, indecent, profane, suggestive, or immoral message to another person;

(2) threaten in a telephonic communication or any other electronic means an unlawful act with the intent to coerce, intimidate, or harass another person;

(3) telephone or electronically contact another repeatedly, whether or not conversation ensues, for the purpose of annoying or harassing another person or his family;

(4) make a telephone call and intentionally fail to hang up or disengage the connection for the purpose of interfering with the telephone service of another;

(5) telephone or contact by electronic means another and make false statements concerning either the death or injury of a member of the family of the person who is telephoned or electronically contacted, with the intent to annoy, frighten, or terrify that person; or

(6) knowingly permit a telephone under his control to be used for any purpose prohibited by this section.

(B) A person who violates any provision of subsection (A) is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one hundred dollars nor more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned not more than thirty days.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Out of curiosity since I got arrested for a misdemeanor that I didn't go to jail for and it was expunged do I still have a chance at being a pilot?
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If drugs or alcohol were not involved, your driver's license was not suspended, and you didn't have to go to rehab, then you most likely do not have to disclose this to the FAA. Whether you must or should disclose to a prospective employer, is something you really should discuss with an attorney in your state.
 
Yes, you can - but possibly you should not. . .

No one will care about a misdeamenor arrest without conviction, not involving drugs or violence. You can fly, get a security clearance, become ordained, teach school, become a cop, whatever. . .
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
I don't know why people keep saying conviction even though I was never convicted to begin with.
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Because you used the word "expunged." That necessarily implies a conviction.

An expungement occurs to remove a record of conviction. If you were never convicted, then the matter wasn't "expunged." I am not trying to be too pedantic here, but that word really means something contrary to your subsequent posts. So, if the facts are different than originally represented (even though accidental), then the opinions in response to your question are likely to change based on new information.
 
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Not only will no one care, but a misdemeanor arrest without conviction is not reportable on question 18(w). They only want to know about convictions.

18(v) wants to know actions involving drugs or alcohol with motor vehicle, including arrests.

Expunged means local courts have removed records. National databases will still have them. In the paper days, expunged meant something.
 
PPC1052 said:
Because you used the word "expunged." That necessarily implies a conviction.

An expungement occurs to remove a record of conviction. If you were never convicted, then the matter wasn't "expunged." I am not trying to be too pedantic here, but that word really means something contrary to your subsequent posts. So, if the facts are different than originally represented (even though accidental), then the opinions in response to your question are likely to change based on new information.
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Here in South Carolina "expunged" applies to arrests also I'm not going to explain myself again so believe whatever you want to believe. I know what was said and what happened when I went to court.
 
bflynn said:
Not only will no one care, but a misdemeanor arrest without conviction is not reportable on question 18(w). They only want to know about convictions.

18(v) wants to know actions involving drugs or alcohol with motor vehicle, including arrests.

Expunged means local courts have removed records. National databases will still have them. In the paper days, expunged meant something.
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Whether it was a conviction as you just implied expunged basically doesn't mean anything now so at this point what does it matter?
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Here in South Carolina "expunged" applies to arrests also I'm not going to explain myself again so believe whatever you want to believe. I know what was said and what happened when I went to court.
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The reason we are asking is because the FAA particular about the way questions are asked and answered. To answer your original question, no this will not affect your ability to become a private pilot. Just answer all the questions honestly. Keep in mind however that just because it is expunged it does not mean you get to answer no on the FAA medical. The question is not "is there a record of" but "have you ever". So in your case if the question asks have you ever been arrested, you have to answer yes. If the question asks have you ever been convicted, you have to answer yes (again if you were convicted.) The FAA does not acknowledge or recognized sealed or expunged records. In their eyes, it happened, and there is no erasing it. But, because of what your misdemeanor was, you should not have any issue getting a pilot certificate.

If you plan on trying to fly for the airlines, the chances of this affecting your employment would be the same as getting any other job that digs deep into your past history.

tl:dr - It shouldn't affect your ability to become a private pilot since it wasn't drug/alcohol/controlled substance related.
 
EdFred said:
The reason we are asking is because the FAA particular about the way questions are asked and answered. To answer your original question, no this will not affect your ability to become a private pilot. Just answer all the questions honestly. Keep in mind however that just because it is expunged it does not mean you get to answer no on the FAA medical. The question is not "is there a record of" but "have you ever". So in your case if the question asks have you ever been arrested, you have to answer yes. If the question asks have you ever been convicted, you have to answer yes (again if you were convicted.) The FAA does not acknowledge or recognized sealed or expunged records. In their eyes, it happened, and there is no erasing it. But, because of what your misdemeanor was, you should not have any issue getting a pilot certificate.

If you plan on trying to fly for the airlines, the chances of this affecting your employment would be the same as getting any other job that digs deep into your past history.

tl:dr - It shouldn't affect your ability to become a private pilot since it wasn't drug/alcohol/controlled substance related.
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All I'm going to say to that is since there was no jail time at all then there's no conviction. There is a difference between an arrest and a conviction. I participated in a program called PTI (look it up) and that was how my arrest got expunged, but once again believe whatever you want. I pretty much can't even afford pilot school right now anyway and I also don't have plans to fly for an airline.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
All I'm going to say to that is since there was no jail time at all then there's no conviction. There is a difference between an arrest and a conviction. I participated in a program called PTI (look it up) and that was how my arrest got expunged, but once again believe whatever you want. I pretty much can't even afford pilot school right now anyway and I also don't have plans to fly for an airline.
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I'm not believing or disbelieving anything. I don't give two craps whether you were or were not arrested and/or convicted. All I am stating is that if the FEDERAL question asks if there was an arrest and there was an arrest you have to answer yes. If the question asks was there a conviction and there was a conviction you have to answer yes. The state might expunge the record but the FEDS do not recognize expungement. Whatever happened, happened. And as far as the FAA is concerned, there is no reset button, there is no save point, and there is no respawning. Your life to the FAA is one continuous line with no take backs, no resets, nothing. If it happened you gotta tell em. If the question is asked YOU MUST ANSWER YES. IT WILL NOT AFFECT YOUR ABILITY TO BE PRIVATE PILOT.

I'm trying to help, not sure why you are being hyper-defensive.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Out of curiosity since I got arrested for a misdemeanor that I didn't go to jail for and it was expunged do I still have a chance at being a pilot?
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Your arrest record will not prevent you from becoming a pilot.

Other things might.
 
The question is “have you ever...” not “is there a record of...” I probably wouldn’t lie. Not being able to get your private pilot license will be the least of your worries if you lie.
 
6-10K is just for the private pilot’s license. Probably plan on spending 40-65K for all ratings. You can apply for loans.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
out of pocket? theres no financial aid you can get?
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This isn't a degree. It's a vocation. You can get a degree in aviation but that's not the same as being a pilot. If you want a degree go get financial aid and get a degree. Most all of us paid out of pocket for the cost to get our license. I think 6-10K is actually pretty conservative. After all the gear I bought, tablet, subscriptions, etc, and the extra time I spent flying I was close to $13K all in for my private license.

That said there are avenues you can take to finance your pilot training, so it's not like you need a lump sum of $10K lying around. You can take out a loan for it and some schools will offer reduced rates for training. If you are ex-military you have even more options available to you down that road.

Sometimes you can even volunteer or just work for an FBO and barter your time for flight training if that FBO is so inclined. Lots of ways to make money for training.

Check out this site, which took all of 30 seconds to search for:

https://www.stilt.com/blog/2019/02/loan-for-pilot-training/
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Other things such as? While I'm here how much does pilot school typically cost anyway?
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Money.

Attitude.

Desire.

As noted, figure $6-10K by the time you get a private pilot license, depending on where you are and what you train in. That's IF you do it on your own, on the cheap, and don't enroll in some canned program. If you plan to fly commercially, you'll need an instrument rating (LOTS more training expense), commercial pilot certificate (even more training), and you'll want to pick up a CFI certification along the way.
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Other things such as? While I'm here how much does pilot school typically cost anyway?
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Other things such as your attitude. The way you’ve reacted here to strangers trying to help you you indicates anger control issues. The FAA is going to be far more pedantic than this and they aren’t going to consider the attitude you’ve demonstrated here as a positive thing in their assessment of you.
 
Clip4 said:
SC Code § 16-17-430 (2012)

(A) It is unlawful for a person to:

(1) use in a telephonic communication or any other electronic means, any words or language of a profane, vulgar, lewd, lascivious, or an indecent nature, or to communicate or convey by telephonic or other electronic means an obscene, vulgar, indecent, profane, suggestive, or immoral message to another person;

(2) threaten in a telephonic communication or any other electronic means an unlawful act with the intent to coerce, intimidate, or harass another person;

(3) telephone or electronically contact another repeatedly, whether or not conversation ensues, for the purpose of annoying or harassing another person or his family;

(4) make a telephone call and intentionally fail to hang up or disengage the connection for the purpose of interfering with the telephone service of another;

(5) telephone or contact by electronic means another and make false statements concerning either the death or injury of a member of the family of the person who is telephoned or electronically contacted, with the intent to annoy, frighten, or terrify that person; or

(6) knowingly permit a telephone under his control to be used for any purpose prohibited by this section.

(B) A person who violates any provision of subsection (A) is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one hundred dollars nor more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned not more than thirty days.
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this is why i do not like to talk to people... at all
 
Rolloofthenorm said:
Other things such as?
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Your super-defensive attitude mainly. As a flight instructor, I can see you blaming me, the airplane, your mommy and daddy and God, before taking responsibility for mistakes made during a flight.

You come in here and ask a question. We answer you and you want to get all defensive about it and whine that you probably cant do it anyway. Most of us here dont really buy into the victim mentality
 
It won't be a problem unless you have other issues (like any psychiatric treatments at the same time). Then the FAA will likely demand additional psychiatric testing.
 
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