Can I please have some advice on an Underage DUI

[AggieMike88]

To contact @bbchien directly use this link

http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/how-to-start.html

 

[texasclouds]

They key is getting those arrests after becoming an airline pilot not before. Kinda like passing that physical fitness test to become a cop. Then you can yolo on the donuts.

 

[AnyPilotSeekingMedicalBad]

Okay, first off, everyone needs to stop beating this guy up.

Hiring an FAA lawyer who does medicals might not be such a bad investment. Many of them charge a flat fee that's typically four (not five) figures.

The AMEs will tell you this isn't necessary, but it's not their medical certificate. And it's scary as all get out to go in for a medical not having a good idea of what the outcome will be. The AME does not work for you; he works for the federal government.

My policy with respect to the federal government is that you must answer every question truthfully. However, it is also a good idea to know and understand what question the federal government is asking you, and to not answer a question that it is not asking you, and sometimes if there is a way to legally avoid being required to give a dangerous answer. If this is your first medical and your grad school buddies were passing around a joint 22 months ago, sometimes it's not so dumb to wait three months so you can check the box "no" on whether you've used marijuana in the past 24 months. They're not asking you about what happened 25 months ago.

A lot of people on the forums like Bruce Chien, and this is well earned-- Chien gives his opinion and his advice for free on the boards. He doesn't have to do this, and it is a nice thing that he does it. But when you go to his website, he wants you to tell him [as a representative of the FAA] everything up front and in writing. This is generally not a smart policy for dealing with the federal government!

Everything you tell your lawyer is confidential, and he works for you. Now, he works within the bounds of the law and he will only advise you within those bounds. And he will not put an unsafe pilot in the air. But having someone who's an expert on medicals to sit down with and discuss stuff confidentially takes a lot of the risk out of it. The lawyer will know the process, know which AMEs to avoid, have a rough idea of what questions you will need to answer, and have a good sense of the outcome. He'll also know what the consequences are of checking the box yes. Oftentimes the result will be a huge sigh of relief.

If you have a few thousand bucks laying around to hire a lawyer-- or maybe he can just do a one hour verbal consult without a written opinion for less money-- it helps you go in more calm. (Oh by the way they take your blood pressure, too)

Before you guys ask, I am not a lawyer, but I've needed one before. I can't tell you how many people caught in the middle of a high-stakes situation between two warring parties would be thrilled to pay only $4000, $5000, heck $50,000 to have a lawyer with a good idea of what questions they'll have to answer and what answers they will not be required to volunteer so they can avoid becoming a political football. If nothing else, simply so that they can make plans for the political consequences of being required to give a difficult but truthful answer. For a more complicated medical certificate situation, this might be money well-spent, and it might be wise to go to the lawyer first and the AME second.

 

[AnyPilotSeekingMedicalBad]

Like I said before, I haven’t touched it since that day. While I know this to be true and most people here are thinking otherwise - it wasn’t aviation that made me quit. I quit because I was scared of what I could become if I continued, along with plenty of other reasons. I matured during that event and have never looked back.

Okay, so this is a great answer for your friends and your employer. But to prove it to the FAA, you need random third-party testing. Two years of randomly getting phone calls and having to go in and pee in a cup.

And you came here for advice. And we should try to help.

I've seen flat fee FAA Medical lawyers run less than $10,000. The lawyer would probably be the first step.

If money is really tight now, you might be able to get the ball rolling with a company like Quest Diagnostics or Labcorp yourself. But this seems really easy to mess up, and you might have to completely restart it if you line up a lawyer later and he vetoes this. It seems like the FAA is going to have a lot of moving parts on what exactly the specs are for this.

The past two years have been hard for everyone. The next two years might be hard for everyone as well. We could very well have a jet fuel shortage in the northeast this summer, and some pilots might find themselves... involuntarily grounded, even with valid medicals. So you may not be missing as much as you think if it's any consolation.

See you in the air..

 

[Palmpilot]

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Introduction
Hi everybody, I am looking to gather some advice on how I should proceed or if I should not proceed at all. I have looked through various threads but could not find any situation that was similar to mine. I plan to give as much information as I can so in order to get the most accurate advice plausible.

The best advice here is to contact Dr. Chien and see if he's interested in taking on your case. Ignore all the doom and gloom telling you to spend $10k on a lawyer and that an AME "works for the FAA" and they're just itching to rat you out. If you pay an AME for their medical opinion and services you are paying them to act as your personal physician. If you're really worried about it don't sign any records or disclosure release the AME requests and don't fill out a MedXPress.

You've never held a medical or pilot certificate so the FAA doesn't even know you exist. Anything you've got is well documented already and you're going to have to deal with it if you want to fly. I'm sure there are plenty of stories about AMEs submitting unsolicited information to the FAA to "get" a pilot. I've heard a few myself from other pilots and straight from AMEs. Dr. Chien isn't that guy.

As Dr. Chien has opined you hit the BAC number for demonstrated tolerance and thus meet the criteria for substance dependence as defined by 14 CFR 67.307(a)(4)(ii)(A).

I'm not a lawyer, but I do have first hand experience of what it takes to obtain and hold a SI for substance dependence. You've got 2 choices.

Choice 1 - HIMS
You're in for a long and expensive road. You'll have to immediately begin some form of 3rd party monitored random alcohol testing. In addition to simple abstinence, you'll have to demonstrate recovery. You'll have to work some form of recovery program (possibly inpatient, but not necessarily) and aftercare activities (AA, SMART, etc. ). There will be frequent in person follow ups with your AME. You'll have some combination of visits with psychiatrists, neuropsychologists, and substance abuse professionals. During this whole time you'll be documenting clinical proof of abstinence and recovery.

You'll spend somewhere north of $10k to get issued and it will not be a quick process. Once issued your ongoing monitoring costs will vary, but $1k-$2k per year isn't out of the norm. Your medical certificates will be time limited to something like 6 months for a substantial (years) period of time. You will only be able to obtain medical certificates from your chosen HIMS AME for years.

You will be under some form of random alcohol monitoring for as long as you choose to hold a medical certificate.

If you're not willing to completely stop drinking alcohol as long as you hold a certificate don't bother.

Choice 2 - Legal action based on 14 CFR 67.307(a)(4)
You're in it for a long, expensive, and uncertain road. You hire a lawyer. You start the uphill battle with next to no evidence of true recovery to a Federal Air Surgeon that enforces a policy of lifelong monitoring for any pilot ever diagnosed substance dependent. The onus will be on you to prove "established clinical evidence, satisfactory to the Federal Air Surgeon, of recovery, including sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years." Right now you have ZERO evidence to meet this standard. You'll spend a lot of money without a guaranteed outcome, burn at least 2 years, most likely end up spending more money on appeals. During these legal activities you may or may not receive good advice about the activities necessary to fill the medical record with clinical evidence of recovery. Also, the FAA medical division will stop communicating with you and take no action on your case as you have begun an adversarial legal process. IF you succeed then great. If you fail then it's back to square 1 and you try back through HIMS where you'll spend another few years before getting issued if you comply.

If you go the legal route and succeed, you should never drink again. If you do drink, an argument could be made that you meet 14 CFR 67.307(a)(4)(ii)(D) "Continued use despite damage to physical health or impairment of social, personal, or occupational functioning." This will put you in the position of possibly being in violation of 14 CFR 61.53(a)(1) if you operate an aircraft after drinking.

As a pilot you'll be trained and required to understand the FARs. You can read the full text of the quoted regs here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/chapter-I

You most likely can obtain a medical, the question is how much is it worth to you. Good luck!

 

[lowtimer]

Okay, so this is a great answer for your friends and your employer. But to prove it to the FAA, you need random third-party testing. Two years of randomly getting phone calls and having to go in and pee in a cup.

And you came here for advice. And we should try to help.

I've seen flat fee FAA Medical lawyers run less than $10,000. The lawyer would probably be the first step.

If money is really tight now, you might be able to get the ball rolling with a company like Quest Diagnostics or Labcorp yourself. But this seems really easy to mess up, and you might have to completely restart it if you line up a lawyer later and he vetoes this. It seems like the FAA is going to have a lot of moving parts on what exactly the specs are for this.

The past two years have been hard for everyone. The next two years might be hard for everyone as well. We could very well have a jet fuel shortage in the northeast this summer, and some pilots might find themselves... involuntarily grounded, even with valid medicals. So you may not be missing as much as you think if it's any consolation.

See you in the air..

Joe, is that you again?

 

[Lachlan]

Okay, so this is a great answer for your friends and your employer. But to prove it to the FAA, you need random third-party testing. Two years of randomly getting phone calls and having to go in and pee in a cup.

And you came here for advice. And we should try to help.

I've seen flat fee FAA Medical lawyers run less than $10,000. The lawyer would probably be the first step.

If money is really tight now, you might be able to get the ball rolling with a company like Quest Diagnostics or Labcorp yourself. But this seems really easy to mess up, and you might have to completely restart it if you line up a lawyer later and he vetoes this. It seems like the FAA is going to have a lot of moving parts on what exactly the specs are for this.

The past two years have been hard for everyone. The next two years might be hard for everyone as well. We could very well have a jet fuel shortage in the northeast this summer, and some pilots might find themselves... involuntarily grounded, even with valid medicals. So you may not be missing as much as you think if it's any consolation.

See you in the air..

Cocaine’s a helluva drug…