Can I get a 1st class Medical Certificate when I have failed UAs on probation?

[TShellSki]

Hi, wondering here if anyone has ever failed a UA while on probation, years before applying for their medical certificate for the first time. Or does anyone have any helpful information on how to handle this before and when visiting a AME.

I’ll shed a little light on my personal situation. 9 years ago (when i as 21), someone assaulted a friend of mine, right in front of me. I wrongfully interjected myself into the altercation, and ended up being charged with assault.

After fighting the case for 2 years, I took a plea deal. I was placed on probation for 5 years. Random drug testing for mood altering chemicals was part of the conditions, even though the offense wasn’t related to drugs or alcohol.

From 21 years of age to 28, I was given hundreds of random UAs. I failed 3 of them early on. 1 for cocaine, and 2 for cannabis. It has been over 5 years since the last failed UA, which was the last time I used a mood altering substance. I have passed countless random UAs since.

I was young, in college, and experimenting. Thinking one day at a time, not about the future. Obviously, extremely stupid choices. Without question I have learned from my mistakes, but i can’t take them back.

The outcome of the failed UAs was a requirement to get a chemical dependency evaluation, where it was deemed that I did not have any issues with drugs or alcohol, but i should take a educational class.

Is it even possible to get a medical certificate? If yes, or maybe, can anyone shed some light on what I will need to do to help bring my goals to fruition?

I am more than happy to add any additional information you may need to help you best answer my questions.

Thank you very much for your time and honesty,
T

 

[redbaron]

Is your intention to fly professionally or recreational? I would recommend looking into sport pilot certification to determine if this is a path you want to go down before pursuing medical certification. You are definitely bound for HIMS for substance abuse (possibly dependence) , which a quick Google search will reveal to you how onerous those monitoring requirements are.

If you don't intend to fly for a career, I would strongly recommend staying away from the FAA Medical certification circus as it currently stands. I won't pass judgements on your previous mistakes, I know people can change, but the FAA is extremely hesitant to deal with these issues.

 

[TShellSki]

Thank you for your quick response.
It is wholeheartedly my intention to become a professional helicopter pilot. I will do whatever it takes. Do you know, if in fact, it is possible?

Thanks again,
T

 

[redbaron]

Thank you for your quick response.
It is wholeheartedly my intention to become a professional helicopter pilot. I will do whatever it takes. Do you know, if in fact, it is possible?

Thanks again,
T

It is possible, but the path forward is through the HIMS program, which is long, expensive, arduous and no results are guaranteed. You will need to engage with a HIMS AME for a path forward. You can find a list of HIMS AMEs in the country through Google. I would recommend paying one for a consult. Time to get to work.

I would also advise if you haven't already to have a heart to heart conversation with someone in the helicopter business about the realities of that industry. Being a professional helicopter pilot is a tough nut to crack and the jobs that are available are increasingly being competed with by drones and pilots leaving the military in droves.

 

[Daleandee]

I'm guessing anything is possible but I'm also guessing you'll be in your 40's before you get to be a professional helicopter pilot.

I ain't no doc though so that is pure opinion & speculation ...

 

[Half Fast]

It is wholeheartedly my intention to become a professional helicopter pilot.

Bear in mind that getting a medical and getting a job are two different things. Even if you get a medical (after many years and many thousands of dollars) and complete all your training (after many more years and many more thousands of dollars), you may still have difficulties finding an employer who will hire you as a pilot.

It’s a gamble of years of your life and a ton of money against unknown odds of finding employment and an unknown payout in some unknown future job market.

Consult with a HIMS AME, as has been suggested, but also learn all you can about the career opportunities and difficulties you may face.

Some decisions have lifelong consequences.

 

[TShellSki]

It is possible, but the path forward is through the HIMS program, which is long, expensive, arduous and no results are guaranteed. You will need to engage with a HIMS AME for a path forward. You can find a list of HIMS AMEs in the country through Google. I would recommend paying one for a consult. Time to get to work.

I would also advise if you haven't already to have a heart to heart conversation with someone in the helicopter business about the realities of that industry. Being a professional helicopter pilot is a tough nut to crack and the jobs that are available are increasingly being competed with by drones and pilots leaving the military in droves.

Sounds like a plan, thank you.

 

[TShellSki]

Bear in mind that getting a medical and getting a job are two different things. Even if you get a medical (after many years and many thousands of dollars) and complete all your training (after many more years and many more thousands of dollars), you may still have difficulties finding an employer who will hire you as a pilot.

It’s a gamble of years of your life and a ton of money against unknown odds of finding employment and an unknown payout in some unknown future job market.

Consult with a HIMS AME, as has been suggested, but also learn all you can about the career opportunities and difficulties you may face.

Some decisions have lifelong consequences.

Understood. I will do what I can. Thank you for your time.

 

[Daleandee]

Some decisions have lifelong consequences.

 

[guest user]

I'd say go for it. (yes, from the comfort of my office chair and with my basicMed cert comfortably in my flight bag)
Now that you know your medical will probably be quite delayed, that should allow you some breathing room in your training schedule, since there's no need to bust our your flight training in 6mo if you're going to be waiting years (sorry) for your medical to get through all the hoops. So, take your time to deeply understand what is going on in your training. Sure, you may have to wait years to solo, but there's nothing that says you can't go ahead and get a few hours of high performance / complex dual training in. A few dual hours of tail wheel, gliders, etc. While your goal is helicopters, there are no drawbacks to having a well rounded background in other heavier than air aircraft. Also, at the risk of being a bit rude, it may be what pushes your resume over the hump that your prior drug use will certainly put in your path of getting a professional job.

Let us know how it goes for you, and good luck!

 

[bbchien]

Abstinence and recovery Are two different things…do you know the difference? It’s kinda important……

 

[TShellSki]

I'd say go for it. (yes, from the comfort of my office chair and with my basicMed cert comfortably in my flight bag)
Now that you know your medical will probably be quite delayed, that should allow you some breathing room in your training schedule, since there's no need to bust our your flight training in 6mo if you're going to be waiting years (sorry) for your medical to get through all the hoops. So, take your time to deeply understand what is going on in your training. Sure, you may have to wait years to solo, but there's nothing that says you can't go ahead and get a few hours of high performance / complex dual training in. A few dual hours of tail wheel, gliders, etc. While your goal is helicopters, there are no drawbacks to having a well rounded background in other heavier than air aircraft. Also, at the risk of being a bit rude, it may be what pushes your resume over the hump that your prior drug use will certainly put in your path of getting a professional job.

Let us know how it goes for you, and good luck!

I will go for it. Thank you for the kind advice. Gaining extra experience in other areas, is something I hadn’t thought about.
I will keep you updated. Again, thank you, I appreciate your time and honesty.

 

[robin ardoin]

Abstinence and recovery Are two different things…do you know the difference? It’s kinda important……

Some of the most miserable bass turds I have met are those abstinent but not in recovery. Take away the solution without a sufficient substitute and there you go. Put another way...if you sober up an alcoholic horse thief...you get just a horse thief and nothing else changes.

 

[TShellSki]

Abstinence and recovery Are two different things…do you know the difference? It’s kinda important……

Funny you should ask. We just spoke about this at a Celebrate Recovery (a faith based recovery group that I have been attending weekly for some time, through the church I attend) meeting the other day.
I do fully understand that they are very different. One can be sober, but not in recovery. Although sobriety is a prerequisite of recovery.
Recovery involves addressing all aspects of one’s self – emotional, physical, and spiritual. It involves admitting the wrong and implementing necessary steps to make the wrong right.

 

[Daleandee]

Recovery involves addressing all aspects of one’s self – emotional, physical, and spiritual. It involves admitting the wrong and implementing necessary steps to make the wrong right.

I applaud your approach, may you find success.

I would add to your list above that it's extremely important to not only admit the wrong, take the road to recovery, and seek to make amends but to also understand the driving forces that led to that situation to start with. If the triggers of such behavior are not clearly identified, then it may be difficult to see and avoid a reoccurrence if those, or similar, circumstances occur again ...

 

[TShellSki]

I applaud your approach, may you find success.

I would add to your list above that it's extremely important to not only admit the wrong, take the road to recovery, and seek to make amends but to also understand the driving forces that led to that situation to start with. If the triggers of such behavior are not clearly identified, then it may be difficult to see and avoid a reoccurrence if those, or similar, circumstances occur again ...

Thank you.
I couldn’t agree more.

 

[robin ardoin]

I applaud your approach, may you find success.

I would add to your list above that it's extremely important to not only admit the wrong, take the road to recovery, and seek to make amends but to also understand the driving forces that led to that situation to start with. If the triggers of such behavior are not clearly identified, then it may be difficult to see and avoid a reoccurrence if those, or similar, circumstances occur again ...

While I wholeheartedly agree with you I add that someone in solid recovery will find that their 'triggers' will become less as time goes on. Eventually, for someone in solid long term recovery, triggers cease to exist. Back off on the effort....triggers somehow once again return. Go figure .

 

[TShellSki]

Abstinence and recovery Are two different things…do you know the difference? It’s kinda important……

Dr. Chien (or anyone else with helpful info), do you have any recommendations for a specific HIMS AME, at Rochester Mayo or in the Midwest for complex, complex cases? I’m having difficulties finding any reviews on specific individuals (Aside from you).