Can ATC clear a VFR flight through a stadium TFR?

nj-pilot

nj-pilot

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How to interpret "THE RESTRICTIONS DESCRIBED ABOVE DO NOT APPLY TO THOSE AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY AND IN CONTACT WITH ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY OF FLIGHT PURPOSES, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHT OPERATIONS."

Assume I'm getting flight-following, and squawking a non-VFR code. Does flight-following count as being in contact with ATC for operational or safety of flight purposes?

Assuming that, yes, ATC has the power to do so - what is the proper phraseology to request?

Thanks in advance. I'm also looking forward to all the sarcastic, flaming, and RTFM responses to this post. :D
 
Yes, it is definitely possible. Not gonna happen unless they have to, though.

And trust me, you really don't want to operate in a stadium TFR if you can avoid it. BTDT.

The Oakland Coliseum is close enough to KOAK that the TFR encloses all four runways. It's inside Class C, so you are in contact with ATC all the time. The airport is not closed for A's games.

Last time I landed during an A's game, I had two banner tows and an airship to dodge very close to the pattern.

I've yet to overfly a 49ers game, but I don't operate out of KSJC very much.
 
You should be good.

We have many Stadium TFRs in the Dallas area... and I sometimes go to College Station where the runway is practically in the stadium parking lot.

Stay on Flight Following.
 
Sure why not? ATC responsible for the airspace. Except @ OAK I reckon.... :rolleyes:
 
nj-pilot said:
How to interpret "THE RESTRICTIONS DESCRIBED ABOVE DO NOT APPLY TO THOSE AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY AND IN CONTACT WITH ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY OF FLIGHT PURPOSES, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHT OPERATIONS."

Assume I'm getting flight-following, and squawking a non-VFR code. Does flight-following count as being in contact with ATC for operational or safety of flight purposes?

Assuming that, yes, ATC has the power to do so - what is the proper phraseology to request?

Thanks in advance. I'm also looking forward to all the sarcastic, flaming, and RTFM responses to this post. :D
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nj-pilot said:
How to interpret "THE RESTRICTIONS DESCRIBED ABOVE DO NOT APPLY TO THOSE AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY AND IN CONTACT WITH ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY OF FLIGHT PURPOSES, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHT OPERATIONS."

Assume I'm getting flight-following, and squawking a non-VFR code. Does flight-following count as being in contact with ATC for operational or safety of flight purposes?

Assuming that, yes, ATC has the power to do so - what is the proper phraseology to request?

Thanks in advance. I'm also looking forward to all the sarcastic, flaming, and RTFM responses to this post. :D
Click to expand...


There is no such thing as proper phraseology:

AIM 4-2-1(b): "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across."

There is phraseology that has gained currency among pilots over the years, but there is no legally required phraseology. OTOH, controllers have a book containing phraseology that they MUST use.

Bob Gardner
 
Have gone into Boeing Field during games quite low over the stadiums, no big deal...
 
nj-pilot said:
How to interpret "THE RESTRICTIONS DESCRIBED ABOVE DO NOT APPLY TO THOSE AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY AND IN CONTACT WITH ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY OF FLIGHT PURPOSES, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHT OPERATIONS."

Assume I'm getting flight-following, and squawking a non-VFR code. Does flight-following count as being in contact with ATC for operational or safety of flight purposes?

Assuming that, yes, ATC has the power to do so - what is the proper phraseology to request?

Thanks in advance. I'm also looking forward to all the sarcastic, flaming, and RTFM responses to this post. :D
Click to expand...

My experience is that it's based on a controller-initiated instruction. Now that doesn't mean you can't do something like: "hey approach, N123 requesting bravo clearance at 3,100 to avoid the the stadium TFR.", causing ATC to just instruct you to continue through the TFR at your current altitude.
 
Can't you just request clearance through the TFR itself?

Have there been any enforcement actions for violation of a stadium TFR?
 
Yeah they can. They do it by saying things like "cleared for take off, make right crosswind departure. Enter left downwind RW ## report downwind. Transition approved north of the whatever, etc etc. No sarcasm intended, you are in contact with and being authorized by ATC. Landing and taking off are definetely 'operational.' It's likely they modify typical pattern procedures to avoid the stadium and blimps, news Helos and stuff like that. They may be denying a lot of transition requests. If they give you one and it attracts attention you may get the opportunity to explain to someone 'official' like FSDO just what was operational about your transition. The controller may be explaining to someone also why he approved it.
 
IDK, but most of the types I encounter around here (Philadelphia area) are only surface to 3,000 or so.
 
They DON'T give them to banner towing pilots. Some say that's one of the purposes of the TFR's, get rid of banners (stadiums own the advertising politics).
 
nj-pilot said:
--> DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHT OPERATIONS." <--
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From my experience flying in all sorts of TFRs, unless you're one of the above I doubt you'll have much luck.

Doesn't hurt to ask though
 
Next time the 49ers have a home game, look at the tfr. GA and commercial jets fly right over all game
 
TheGolfPilot said:
Next time the 49ers have a home game, look at the tfr. GA and commercial jets fly right over all game
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Yup. Landing and taking off are "operational." The intent of the TFR is to keep airborne Lookie Lou's from congesting the airspace. Sightseeing is not "operational." Other than ATC maybe doing a few things differently, it's business as usual. Requests for things like "how about a 360 on downwind over the stadium" are likely to get an "unable."
 
coloradobluesky said:
They DON'T give them to banner towing pilots. Some say that's one of the purposes of the TFR's, get rid of banners (stadiums own the advertising politics).
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You are probably correct in most cases, but I do see banner planes over the local university stadium during football games. Perhaps the difference is that the stadium is within the surface area of the local class C. The airport is KLNK, Memorial Stadium, Univ of Lincoln, NE.
 
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