Can a PP help an FBO retrieve a plane?

Pi1otguy

Pi1otguy

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Let's say that another person rented a complex aircraft from the FBO you rent from. It had a mechanical issue and is at an airport 3-5 hours away. That pilot left the plane and found another way home. The FBO got the plane fixed but it is still 3-5 hours away.

The CFI asks if you want to fly up there with him and fly the plane back. All of this is obviously for free.

Can you as a private pilot accept? Would the free flight time be compensation?

I'd like to say this is a hypothetical, but it was a real question a few months after getting my PP.
 
Pi1otguy said:
Let's say that another person rented a complex aircraft from the FBO you rent from. It had a mechanical issue and is at an airport 3-5 hours away. That pilot left the plane and found another way home. The FBO got the plane fixed but it is still 3-5 hours away.

The CFI asks if you want to fly up there with him and fly the plane back. All of this is obviously for free.

Can you as a private pilot accept? Would the free flight time be compensation?

I'd like to say this is a hypothetical, but it was a real question a few months after getting my PP.
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Is it legal to drive 5mph over the speed limit? Does it happen every day? Do people get tickets for it? Do people not get tickets for it because cops don't know it's happening? Is it hurting anyone?

Okay, let's do the last one first: yes, I guess you're stealing a very small job from a ferry pilot (or, more likely, the next renter to happen along the FBO), so do with that information what you will.

Let me tell you another story: Shortly after getting my private pilot cert, I was leisurely pre-flighting at the (very small) airport, intending to go randomly bore holes in the sky. Some guy I'd never met walks up to me and says "hey, my plane just finished up its annual at [airport about 15 minutes away]; do you mind dropping me there so I can fly it home?" I said, "sure" and did. When he hopped out, I realize he'd left a $20 on the seat. I had about 5 seconds of panic thinking "wait, I'm just a private pilot; did he just pay me to fly him somewhere? Surely this isn't legal." Then it dawned on me: Nobody cares. I've slept soundly ever since.

Don't put "private pilot who's the go-to guy for all of your mid-distance plane transport needs" in your email signature line, and you'll do okay. But no, just like driving 5mph over the limit, it's not legal.
 
Pi1otguy said:
Let's say that another person rented a complex aircraft from the FBO you rent from. It had a mechanical issue and is at an airport 3-5 hours away. That pilot left the plane and found another way home. The FBO got the plane fixed but it is still 3-5 hours away.

The CFI asks if you want to fly up there with him and fly the plane back. All of this is obviously for free.

Can you as a private pilot accept? Would the free flight time be compensation?

I'd like to say this is a hypothetical, but it was a real question a few months after getting my PP.
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I did just that except I was still a Student Pilot. I was just thinking it was cool. I was like a real pilot doing something real. Not just training. Don’t think it even crossed my mind it was free. Legal, I dunno, but we’re gonna find out.
 
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Maybe checking some of the other forums might find the answer
 
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Sluggo63 said:
This is the correct answer. But, this is POA so I’m setting the over/under for “number of posts before the words ‘Chief Counsel’ appear” at 14. I’m taking the under. You want the over?
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Ur on, I’ll take over. What if it’s 14, is that a push?
 
dtuuri said:
61.113(b):
A private pilot MAY receive compensation if the flight is incidental to the furtherance of ANY business and doesn't carry passengers (or property) for compensation or hire. The FBO is a business. :p
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There it is. Surely meant to mean the pilots own business, but it says what it says. I did it as a Student Pilot. Is there anything said about that?
 
mcmanigle said:
Let me tell you another story: Shortly after getting my private pilot cert, I was leisurely pre-flighting at the (very small) airport, intending to go randomly bore holes in the sky. Some guy I'd never met walks up to me and says "hey, my plane just finished up its annual at [airport about 15 minutes away]; do you mind dropping me there so I can fly it home?" I said, "sure" and did. When he hopped out, I realize he'd left a $20 on the seat. I had about 5 seconds of panic thinking "wait, I'm just a private pilot; did he just pay me to fly him somewhere? Surely this isn't legal." Then it dawned on me: Nobody cares. I've slept soundly ever since.
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And he's allowed to pay his pro rata share anyway. All you have to worry about then is the "common purpose" thing, and you had that. He wanted to go somewhere, you wanted to go somewhere... you just didn't really care where.
 
mcmanigle said:
I realize he'd left a $20 on the seat
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Worse than that kid who delivers pizza in his plane to those islanders for free. The FAA is going to find you both and burn (melt?) your certificates.
 
We moved planes around all the time for our flight school; anything for a free hour or two!
 
Sluggo63 said:
Well played. Next time you’re in Phoenix, beers on me.
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I'm gonna rule that this bet was manipulated as was the streaker bet for the superbowl, and declare it void. No pay ups.
 
I believe you will find the FAA’s interpretation is incidental to your employment or the business you intend to conduct and not required by the employment or business.

If you aren’t an employee or the business owner, the flight is for compensation.
 
Did it many times as a line guy picking up and dropping off airplanes and people for the maintenance shop. Didn't get struck down by lightning at any point for my sins.
 
Clip4 said:
I believe you will find the FAA’s interpretation is incidental to your employment or the business you intend to conduct and not required by the employment or business.

If you aren’t an employee or the business owner, the flight is for compensation.
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AND...No one is going to care. Enjoy the free flying!
 
"The first rule of fight club is, you don't talk about fight club."

:D
 
Clip4 said:
I believe you will find the FAA’s interpretation is incidental to your employment or the business you intend to conduct and not required by the employment or business.

If you aren’t an employee or the business owner, the flight is for compensation.
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No question it’s for compensation, but since the FBO isn’t in business to move their airplanes around for free, it’s incidental to the business, and therefore legal compensation.
 
If you ain't sinnin' you ain't tryin! :D

ETA: DADT was actually repealed a decade ago, so you can be open about your predilections all day long. Now, if we can just strike out that anachronistic fraternization rule happily married couples in the DOD have been violating for ages during courtship, we'd be in business baby! :D
 
MauleSkinner said:
No question it’s for compensation, but since the FBO isn’t in business to move their airplanes around for free, it’s incidental to the business, and therefore legal compensation.
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I understand and agree with your plain English interpretation of the regulation, but the FAA published opinion disagreeing with our interpretation. Lamb-1, 4th paragraph.
“Such operations must be incidental to the pilot’s employment or business.....”, not any business.
 
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Those who have replied that you have brushed within a hairs-width of commercial flight operations will have your certificates cast into a pit of molten plastic and be forever banned from slipping the surly bonds of Earth.

I have never ever ever ever carried passengers anywhere that was not incidental to my purpose of flight. Never. Ever.
 
Clip4 said:
I understand and agree with your plain English interpretation of the regulation, but the FAA published opinion disagreeing with our interpretation. Lamb-1, 4th paragraph.
“Such operations must be incidental to the pilot’s employment or business.....”, not any business.
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Ah Ha, finally. The two ‘C’ words weren’t explicitly said, but the C****f C*****l be the dude what do the FAA’s opinions. So, 37 minus 14 is 28. So, unmanipulated, the ‘overs’ have it.
 
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