Callout Fee

Agreeing with (it seems like just about) everyone here that:

a) It's reasonable to call a charge-out at 8pm on a Sunday. Maybe the employee is a salaried city employee. In that case, I'd be very interested to see if his employment agreement includes 24/7 call or not. I'm guessing not.

b) It's unreasonable to charge a fee that's not posted in advance, especially if there was a phone call and no mention of it then. I'm glad they've now posted the notam, and I'll admit I would have been annoyed by the whole situation too.

c) The escalation was unnecessary. We all (I think) agree that if an air traffic controller is being unreasonable and/or their tone is off, the right thing to do is to fly the airplane safely and as legally as possible in the moment, and then deal with the perceived issue after you're on the ground. Obviously the safety issues around escalating at an FBO are much lesser, but they're of the same flavor insofar as how far an argument is usually going to get you.

d) This probably wasn't worth your time. I don't know how much this conversation delayed your departure, but depending on the callout fee and how highly you value your time, I doubt it was worth it. If the FBO folks did call the police, I'm sure they would have found you in the clear, but probably after a few more hours of conversation, which is definitely not worth your time.

Lowflynjack said:
LOL, thanks doc! Getting upset over something, just because you think it's trivial isn't going to make me drop from a heart attack. The world may not be fair, but you don't have to just bend over and take it either.
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I don't think anyone saying that you'll instantly drop from a heart attack while you're getting worked up over this. But there's pretty decent evidence that the lifelong cumulative cortisol dose -- which can come from getting worked up over relatively little things like this -- is a significant risk factor for coronary disease. Basically, if you put total lifetime yelling on one axis, and heart attack risk on the other axis, you'll find a correlation.
 
schmookeeg said:
Someone comes out, in a huff, then tacks on a mystery fee to my transaction, and then tells me I'm gonna pay it -- I'd dig my heels in too. That's a transactional F-You from a vendor I am handing a few hundred bucks.
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Yep, and we rely on people making a fuss to prevent it becoming a widespread practice. The vendor decides whether he wants to agitate people with lack of transparency, and in our free market he usually gets what he asks for. I’m all for it.
 
It sounds like the fuel guy was rude - so be it, you got the gas anyway. Engaging with him any further wasn't any use. Tell him, once, the fee should have been posted, the airport wasn't NOTAM'ed closed, and be sure you got the self-service price. The goal was fuel - ignore his "attitude". Pay the fee and make some calls the next day. The gu coming out at 8:00 on Sunday night probably isn't a decision maker, not if the airport is run by local gov't. . .Give the airport the bad review they deserve, and move on.

There is a lot of sleaze in aviation services - landing fees billed for airports you flew over but didn't land on; hangars full of inventory, boats, cars, but no airplanes; pencil whipped annuals to get plane sold, etc.
 
For those that say, just pay the fee even though it wasn't posted, and the pumps say SELF SERVE, there's a $10 reading fee for looking at this post.

PM me for details on how to get me the money.

Oh, it wasn't posted there would be a fee for reading my posts at the beginning of the thread? Too bad. Pay up.
 
Jeff767 said:
I would put a check in the mail for the price of the fuel. It’s just me but I pay my bills.
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I never said I wasn’t going to pay the fuel bill. I left my name and number so they could reach out to me and they did.
 
EdFred said:
For those that say, just pay the fee even though it wasn't posted, and the pumps say SELF SERVE, there's a $10 reading fee for looking at this post.

PM me for details on how to get me the money.

Oh, it wasn't posted there would be a fee for reading my posts at the beginning of the thread? Too bad. Pay up.
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I think everyone who said I should have paid it should send me some money. I will honestly take it out to the lineman and give him 100%.
 
Lowflynjack said:
Yep.
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Note that the sign says you will be charged the self service price during normal business hours. It does NOT say the same is true after hours. Although I would be mildly ruffled about an undisclosed call-out fee, I would have expected it. However, according to the sign, you could have been charged the full service price, so you're still getting a discount off that. Of course, he should have pumped it for you then.
 
I'm not sure I'd have paid the fee after seeing the sign on the pump either. But I probably would have slipped the disgruntled employee a couple bucks beforehand as a thank you and to try to put him in a better mood.

Depending on how hard up I was for fuel and my desire to get to where I was going will probably influence my willingness to pay the fee. Would the fee go to the FBO or all of it to the lineman?

I may or may not have raised my voice to match. But you can bet my responses would have been full of snark.
 
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RussR said:
Note that the sign says you will be charged the self service price during normal business hours. It does NOT say the same is true after hours. Although I would be mildly ruffled about an undisclosed call-out fee, I would have expected it. However, according to the sign, you could have been charged the full service price, so you're still getting a discount off that. Of course, he should have pumped it for you then.
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Note that the phone number to call for fuel after hours is different than the one during business hours. It doesn't say you will or won't be charged full service price at the self serve pump.
 
Racerx said:
Note that the phone number to call for fuel after hours is different than the one during business hours. It doesn't say you will or won't be charged full service price at the self serve pump.
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I'm pretty sure regardless of what was intended, that sign was not drafted by the city's legal counsel.
 
Racerx said:
I'm not sure I'd have paid the fee after seeing the sign on the pump either. But I probably would have slipped the disgruntled employee a couple bucks beforehand as a thank you and to try to put him in a better mood.
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Really? You'd have tipped him in advance when he showed up with a chip on his shoulder?
 
Hmmm, you send me money guys crack me up. Seems a little entitled to me, are you waiting for the school loan forgiveness to happen too?
 
About 10 years ago on a trip from Florida to Phoenix we stopped at some airport in Mississippi (can't recall which) for fuel. The AFD said they had SS fuel and we called and they confirmed they had SS fuel. We got there on a Sunday afternoon and the SS fuel pumps had a lock and chain with a note to call a number. We called and about an hour later a guy drove up in a ragged old dirty pickup truck. He was kind of gruff, but still friendly. He filled up the plane and asked me for whatever the amount on the pump was. I asked if there was a call out fee. He said no, but they needed cash :hairraise: because the CC machine was broken. That was why the pump was locked. Fortunately I did have some emergency cash to cover the gas and a tip, which he refused, even though he fueled the plane at the SS pump.
Then I asked if there was anywhere we could walk to for lunch. Nope. Closest diner is about 5 miles away, but we could borrow his truck. We offered to take him with us and buy him lunch but he declined saying he would stay in the office to do some paperwork till we got back. After eating I tried to fill his gas tank but it only took about a gallon. We returned the truck and tried to tip him again for the use of his truck, which he again declined and wished us a good trip.

We stopped there again on our way home and the same guy was there and met us at the SS pump and pumped our fuel again, and again refused a tip.
 
JOhnH said:
About 10 years ago on a trip from Florida to Phoenix we stopped at some airport in Mississippi (can't recall which) for fuel. The AFD said they had SS fuel and we called and they confirmed they had SS fuel. We got there on a Sunday afternoon and the SS fuel pumps had a lock and chain with a note to call a number. We called and about an hour later a guy drove up in a ragged old dirty pickup truck. He was kind of gruff, but still friendly. He filled up the plane and asked me for whatever the amount on the pump was. I asked if there was a call out fee. He said no, but they needed cash :hairraise: because the CC machine was broken. That was why the pump was locked. Fortunately I did have some emergency cash to cover the gas and a tip, which he refused, even though he fueled the plane at the SS pump.
Then I asked if there was anywhere we could walk to for lunch. Nope. Closest diner is about 5 miles away, but we could borrow his truck. We offered to take him with us and buy him lunch but he declined saying he would stay in the office to do some paperwork till we got back. After eating I tried to fill his gas tank but it only took about a gallon. We returned the truck and tried to tip him again for the use of his truck, which he again declined and wished us a good trip.

We stopped there again on our way home and the same guy was there and met us at the SS pump and pumped our fuel again, and again refused a tip.
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One of my first XCs post checkride I realized I hadn't ever done a self serve pump before. The airport manager was mowing the grass on the side of the rwy, saw me pull up to the pump, and worked his way over. We talked for a few minutes, I explained I was going to top off on gas (I didn't actually need any) so I could learn how self serve worked. In all my training, the FBO truck always filled up the tanks. He ended up filling the tanks for me while I watched and we talked, then I paid the SS price, he got back on the tractor and got back to mowing, and I got back on my way back home. Good times.

The OP is interesting - on Monday night I was at the FBO for a late flight, and ran across an Archer that had pulled up to the pump. It was out of service, and they were trying to look for other places for fuel. I asked where they had come from, and it was from the other FBO on the other side of the airport. Those pumps were ALSO out of service, and both FBOs were closed for the night. Not sure what to make of all that other than don't plan on fuel after hours.
 
Years ago my young bride and I were flying our T-Craft across PA and stopped for fuel, no self service, nobody around. This was before cellphones; I found the pay phone, called the "after hours" fuel number, guy said he'd be right out. Before hanging up I asked if there was any kind of restaurant in the stores we flew over on final, he said yeah, there's a pizza place a mile up the road. Figured we'd walk over there after getting the fuel, but a moment letter the phone rang, it was the guy asking if we wanted him to pick up a pizza for us on the way over... we did and he did. He refused any kind of tip.

At the time the state tourism slogan was. "You've got a friend in Pennsylvania," and my wife's observation was that we really did have a friend in PA.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Really? You'd have tipped him in advance when he showed up with a chip on his shoulder?
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Prior to knowing there was already a call out fee. Yeah. Its not his fault the pump is broken. Called into work late on a holiday weekend, and probably being paid peanuts to do it. I'd be a little surly too.
 
I work at an FBO that has a $50 fee for after-hours service. This is for corporate aircraft - we have self-serve pumps for 100LL and autogas. The only place I can see the fee listed is on the wall in the FBO office. Let's say you land your personal small airplane and want us to put it in a hangar because of storms approaching. You call the phone number. The manager lives a few blocks away. The hangar fee depends on the size of the aircraft. If you plan to buy fuel, there is a chance the after-hours fee will be waived. Depends on nine o'clock or two in the morning.

In the case described, I would not argue with the guy who came out. I'd pay the fee and dispute it with the manager during normal business hours, and if no satisfaction, go through my credit card company. They will ask if you contacted the vendor with your complaint, and when you say yes, and that the fee was not disclosed in advance, there is an excellent chance they will reverse it.
 
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Racerx said:
Prior to knowing there was already a call out fee. Yeah. Its not his fault the pump is broken. Called into work late on a holiday weekend, and probably being paid peanuts to do it. I'd be a little surly too.
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He probably found out when the phone rang that evening that it was part of his job description.:rolleyes:
 
The FBO that owns/manages the common hangar in which I keep my plane charges a $50-75 call out fee after hours. It is, however, published on FF, in the lobby, and in their rental policy.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
In the case described, I would not argue with the guy who came out. I'd pay the fee and dispute it with the manager during normal business hours, and if no satisfaction, go through my credit card company. They will ask if you contacted the vendor with your complaint, and when you say yes, and that the fee was not disclosed in advance, there is an excellent chance they will reverse it.
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AITA = ETA

Your above is very close just missing step 1 in my opinion. Being charged an undisclosed fee by CSR, “I have a problem with this thing. How are you going to resolve it? If no resolution, the rest of your flow works. Most CSR people have tools they can use, albeit limited, to make things better. Asking nicely and clearly usually prompts what they can and cannot do. Ain’t their fault the boss didn’t give them good tools to work with.
 
So the moral of the story is, if your buddy yells loud enough, you might get free fuel. ;)

But I'm with Jack about it not being posted or mentioned prior.
Sort of manipulation by omission. An old tactic still in play.

As an airport manager/FBO manager, etc., I would have said no fee, and we'll get the NOTAM and sign posted. Thanks for the business!
 
Skyrys62 said:
But I'm with Jack about it not being posted or mentioned prior. Sort of manipulation by omission. An old tactic still in play.
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Still in play, indeed. If you deal with airports and their fees in e.g. Europe you will find that playing games with omission of fees is not the exception there, it is the general rule. Tricking the buyer is their livelihood.

Making a fuss individually, always, is the most effective way of preventing the same widespread FBO fraud in the US, along with publicizing it, and along with the private FBOs having some of level of fear of the airport manager and his obligations to FAA.

This week in the US I was invoiced a 2% “convenience fee” above the published Avgas price, above the price on the receipt from the driver. I’m not sure what convenience it provided. It wasn’t because it was gas off the truck, the price was already substantially higher than self serve. And cash to the driver is not accepted so credit card payment on account is an intrinsic part of buying off the truck. Like restaurants they do it because they can get away with it. I’ll be calling to discuss.
 
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FORANE said:
I hate garbage fees as much as the next guy, but calling to ask for a service outside of regular business hours is not something I expect without any additional cost.
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Self serve in my dictionary means "I don't need your assistance pumping fuel" and if there are no "limited hours of operation" I'd expect to be able to land at will, fuel and be on my way ... if you throw a lock on the pump to trap people into a fee, that's just wrong.

At my field, call out fees are exactly as a previous user indicated: no fee unless maybe moving into a hangar or requesting full service (the corporate guys).

On long XC, I always confirm with a phone call so as not to get surprised. All of my experiences have been positive though ... sorry Jack had that issue, but I think acted appropriately given the circumstances ...
 
At my local field, the self-service pumps are currently out of order. So I paid the full-service price yesterday for gas off the truck. But there's a NOTAM about it.
 
Lindberg said:
At my local field, the self-service pumps are currently out of order. So I paid the full-service price yesterday for gas off the truck. But there's a NOTAM about it.
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What happens if you get there and the field is closed?
 
The lack of fee transparency in this industry is absolutely ridiculous. Second only to medical billing.
 
if you have to ask...
 
I am with the group that it should have 1) been posted on the sign, 2) been informed when he called.

Without that, would also state I was not going to pay the fee.
 
Bob Noel said:
I was going more for "you can't afford it"
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Yeah, I knew that. And I appreciated the humor.
Perhaps you and I can afford an unexpected call out fee, but there are a lot of pilots that sacrifice a lot to be able to fly. Unexpected fees hurt them.
 
jaysus on a bread line, how about not defaulting to that classist feces-take of implying the only reason anyone would ever raise objections to costs in life is the presumption said person can't afford it. This hobby can be so odious sometimes, it gets hard to root for its survival. I honestly thought the paint job thread had the race for economic contempt tagged and bagged, nope. Every day is 'hold my beer' day at POA, gotta stay subbed!:D
 
If he came out after hours for me, I would have absolutely tipped him. But if there was then a no-notice call out fee, I would have paid it and skipped the tip.
 
What if you didn’t need the fuel outside of business hours, parked the plane and got fuel the next day during business hours. Would a call out fee apply?
 
Lindberg said:
According to the OP, there was a sign on the self-service pumps directing pilots to call for fuel and specifically starting they'd be charged the self-service price. If that only applied during certain hours or there were additional fees, that's where it should have been posted. I wouldn't be surprised if adding the callout fee after the fact violates state consumer-protection laws.
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It appears to be a borderline case of the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Consumer Protection Act and hinges on whether or not the OP would have purchased the fuel even knowing the charge in advance. From what is posted here, it sounds like he would have because he didn't feel comfortable flying somewhere else, therefore no violation.
 
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