California to north GA in the winter in a 120? Am I nuts?

Totally reasonable if you have lots of time. Time for delays and hotel rooms waiting for good weather days...


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Lots of great things to see along the way. Easy. It's why we fly. Just make enough time so you can sit out the weather someplace interesting. As the weather systems march across the country, if you watch for a while, you can learn how to time them pretty well. If its not flying weather today, wait a day or maybe even two, and then make the next leg of the trip. If you feel rushed, it might not end well. You don't want that. If you need to get there, park the airplane someplace safe, and get on the airlines. come back another day when it's safe to continue the trip. It can and will be a great ADVenture. You just need to keep your options open.
 
iamtheari said:
How can we possibly say whether the trip is a good idea if we don’t see the airplane first?
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Using pictures to determine airworthiness these days, I guess. I hope he does post pics, so everyone can say they wouldn't even taxi in that POS. Yippee!

OTOH, the thread without pictures may lead to advice on routing, typical weather in the various parts of the route, etc. You know, useful info.
 
Scott MacKie said:
Without me digging up a map or foreflight, is there a sane way to do this? I-40? I-20?

T'anks.
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I've actually been watching the route from KLVK to KTOC everyday for the last few months and tracking if route was clear for VFR that day. I tend to plan on ~I-5 to ~I-40, but with some deviations for weather. The personal mins I applied were stable <3k ceilings for VFR and <6sm vis. ICE is anything that would require flying through clouds that might be near the danger zone.

This is along the lines of the route I tend to check.
upload_2020-12-27_9-26-12.png

Date Est flight condition
9/30/2020 VFR
10/1/2020 VFR
10/2/2020 IFR
10/3/2020 MVFR
10/4/2020 MVFR
10/5/2020 VFR
10/6/2020 VFR
10/7/2020 VFR
10/8/2020 MVFR
10/9/2020 IFR
10/10/2020 IFR
10/11/2020 IFR
10/12/2020 VFR
10/13/2020 VFR
10/14/2020 VFR
10/15/2020 VFR
10/16/2020 VFR
10/17/2020 VFR
10/18/2020 IFR
10/19/2020 MVFR
10/20/2020 MVFR
10/21/2020 VFR
10/22/2020 IFR
10/23/2020 IFR
10/24/2020 ICE
10/25/2020 ICE
10/26/2020 ICE
10/27/2020 ICE
10/28/2020 ICE
10/29/2020 ICE
10/30/2020 VFR
10/31/2020 VFR
11/1/2020 VFR
11/2/2020 VFR
11/3/2020 VFR
11/4/2020 VFR
11/5/2020 VFR
11/6/2020 VFR
11/7/2020 IFR
11/8/2020 ICE
11/9/2020 MVFR
11/10/2020 IFR
11/11/2020 IFR
11/12/2020 VFR
11/13/2020 VFR
11/14/2020 VFR
11/15/2020 VFR
11/16/2020 VFR
11/17/2020 VFR
11/18/2020 VFR
11/19/2020 VFR
11/20/2020 VFR
11/21/2020 VFR
11/22/2020 IFR
11/23/2020 IFR
11/24/2020 IFR
11/25/2020 IFR
11/26/2020 VFR
11/27/2020 VFR
11/28/2020 VFR
11/29/2020 IFR
11/30/2020 VFR
12/1/2020 VFR
12/2/2020 IFR
12/3/2020 VFR
12/4/2020 IFR
12/5/2020 VFR
12/6/2020 MVFR
12/7/2020 VFR
12/8/2020 VFR
12/9/2020 VFR
12/10/2020 VFR
12/11/2020 ICE
12/12/2020 ICE
12/13/2020 ICE
12/14/2020 ICE
12/15/2020 IFR
12/16/2020 ICE
12/17/2020 ICE
12/18/2020 ICE
12/19/2020 IFR
12/20/2020 IFR
12/21/2020 IFR
12/22/2020 MVFR
12/23/2020 ICE
12/24/2020 ICE
12/25/2020 VFR
12/26/2020 VFR
12/27/2020 VFR
 
The winter weather from LAX to ATL looks good today (VFR, no precip, temps above 35 F at 7500'). It's less wonderful tomorrow. So yes, it's doable, depending on the day.

I approximated the route as Los Angeles - Lordsburg NM - El Paso - Atlanta. Roughly speaking, it's I10 from Los Angeles to El Paso, then direct to Georgia. Here's the route view for today, in WeatherSpork.com. The red box at the right indicates low-level turbulence, in Arkansas, and that's the only nuisance I noticed for the flight today.
 

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NoHeat said:
The weather looks pretty good today, not so great tomorrow. So yes, it's doable.

I approximated the route as Los Angeles - Lordsburg NM - El Paso - Atlanta. Roughly speaking, it's I10 from Los Angeles to El Paso, then direct to Georgia. Here's the route view for today, in WeatherSpork.com.

View attachment 92759
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At 100kts or so, leaving aside tailwinds, you’d need at least 3 good days of weather... more likely 4...


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Aircraft I'm studyin' on is in the central Cali valley. Hey that ryhmes. Seems following I-40 will work assuming 2000 foot ceilings over Flagstaff. Hey, 9500 feet in a 120 in the winter...the heater better be functional. At least our feet will be warm. East of ABQ and your home free altitude wise.
 
Curious what site/app y'all are using to predict weather like that along a route. Do you mind posting them?
 
I'm beginning to question @Scott MacKie's motivation.

Are you ferrying this?

I'll be surprised if most of the advice is other than go South first and then go across I-10ish or I-20ish. Not just for altitude, but for weather. You mentioned Flagstaff, but there's plenty of high cold places along I-40 until you get through New Mexico and then there are low cold places.
 
I followed an I-40ish route coast to coast last winter and had a fantastic time.
Did it almost entirely VFR in a 172.
All you need is time, money, and luck. If you have a lot of two of those, you can have less of the third.
Adventure is calling!
 
Ravioli said:
I'm beginning to question @Scott MacKie's motivation.

Are you ferrying this?

I'll be surprised if most of the advice is other than go South first and then go across I-10ish or I-20ish. Not just for altitude, but for weather. You mentioned Flagstaff, but there's plenty of high cold places along I-40 until you get through New Mexico and then there are low cold places.
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The long winter flight in a Cessna 120 sounds like the OP is buying a plane in CA and wanting to fly it home.

I'd agree about the southern route. The winter weather from Palm Springs to El Paso is likely to be benign, while the weather further north, with a route through Flagstaff, could be much nastier. I'd take the southern route even if it adds a day.
 
Go south, BTDT. Tehachapi, Cajon & Banning passes to I-10, Gila Bend, Tucson, El Paso, Wink, Ft Worth, etc., IIRC (it's been 50 years or so). Carry water for survival and check your oil tank flange for cracks (I developed one en route and was losing oil). My plane was a 1947 C-140.
 
From my limited experience: October-November and April-May give you the best chance of good weather for this trip.
Winter flying has hazards but are generally predictable.
Summer has thunderstorms, which can be unpredictable.


Tom
 
For what it’s worth, I’ve crossed the country during the winter in light airplanes numerous times, almost exclusively under VFR. With a little planning and some flexibility in the trip dates and route, you’ll be fine.
 
Yes, I'm working up a prebuy on an airplane in the Sacramento area. Others under consideration are in eastern PA and just west of Austion. Both much easer to get back to the home patch; the one in Cali is the most attractive.
 
I took a 120 from Detroit to Fairbanks and back, but not in the winter. So, that seems to be doable. It's not like you will be flying around the Great Lakes.
But as far as your second question is concerned, I am not in a position to answer.
 
Yea I-40 Fox, Kingman., Winslow, Albuquerque, Amarillo, Oklahoma City after that thee are tons of airports and lots of alternates to choose from. Cross country is just a bunch of little hops all strung together. For the 120 air is air, it don't much care what's under it. For mountains I-40 or I-10 are the most benign ways to get across the divide. With an Ipad and Foreflight weather is not the boogeyman it used to be, You can SEE it. No, you're not "nuts"
 
If you come through OKC, stop in. I'm on a private airport (2OK2) and can put you up for the night........or however long, if WX is a problem. I even have fuel.
 
Patience and some beef jerky- sounds like a great trip! I’ve done 3 long cross countries like that in my c140 twice and a 150- yes different route a t time of year but patience and she’ll get ya there
 
The airplane has moved to the top of the list. I figure $1800 in variable costs (including fuel, oil, rebuild reserve, mx reserve) and lodging/food for 6 days (four days of hard flying, and 2 days of delays.) If it bears fruit, I'll leave a saga here.
 
Ravioli said:
I'll be surprised if most of the advice is other than go South first and then go across I-10ish or I-20ish. Not just for altitude, but for weather. You mentioned Flagstaff, but there's plenty of high cold places along I-40 until you get through New Mexico and then there are low cold places.
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It's certainly a good idea, but in all the times I've flown coast to coast or VA to Phoenix, I I have only taken the southern route maybe 25% of the time. One reason is the damn wind. Most of the time I've flight planned that route, particularly in the winter, winds in southwestern Texas were blowing 20-30 kts and often cross-wind. Not always the best thing in a taildragger.

When I flew my 170 out to Virginia from San Diego, my route was San Diego to Mesa, AZ. Mesa to Albuquerque, then Albuquerque across northern TX to Birmingham, AL and then home to Virginia.

For the OP, following I-40 should work fine to get to ABQ/SAF area and then onward should work fine. Just have 2 to 3 routes planned in order to be flexible for weather.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It's certainly a good idea, but in all the times I've flown coast to coast or VA to Phoenix, I I have only taken the southern route maybe 25% of the time. One reason is the damn wind. Most of the time I've flight planned that route, particularly in the winter, winds in southwestern Texas were blowing 20-30 kts and often cross-wind. Not always the best thing in a taildragger.

When I flew my 170 out to Virginia from San Diego, my route was San Diego to Mesa, AZ. Mesa to Albuquerque, then Albuquerque across northern TX to Birmingham, AL and then home to Virginia.

For the OP, following I-40 should work fine to get to ABQ/SAF area and then onward should work fine. Just have 2 to 3 routes planned in order to be flexible for weather.[/QUOTE
I'm diggin' on the I-40 route. Highest spot is Flagstaff, some wiggles over western NM (Grant) then into ABQ, then through Tijeras pass or south of the Manzon's and you're home free. Winds excepted of course.
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Yep, this looks like a good plan. If it happens, I'll look at all routes and pick the one that gives me the best chance of minimal delays.
 
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I've done it twice (round trip S.F. Bay Area to Jacksonville, FL) in a C150, once in the spring and once in the winter. Both times VFR without autopilot, and both times following I-10 more or less. Winter weather and shorter daylight hours caused delays, but for the winter trip I was between jobs and had plenty of time. That time of year there wasn't density altitude to worry about.

It's certainly doable, but budget plenty of time for weather delays.
 
I have flown long distance in my 140 to the 120-140 Nationals a couple of times. The trip is fun as long as you have the time.

Through this organization I befriended Jack Hooker of Hooker Harness fame. He has a 120 that he flies from Illinois to Oklahoma City pretty regularly.

In aviation a 120 is considered slow, but how fast is your car or truck? Of course you can drive your car or truck in any weather, but......

All that said, if you have the time it’s very doable and will be a tip lull always remember. Generally, follow I10 to I20. If you have to go down, go down near the Interstate. Being stranded in the desert would not be fun.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It's certainly a good idea, but in all the times I've flown coast to coast or VA to Phoenix, I I have only taken the southern route maybe 25% of the time. One reason is the damn wind. Most of the time I've flight planned that route, particularly in the winter, winds in southwestern Texas were blowing 20-30 kts and often cross-wind. Not always the best thing in a taildragger.

When I flew my 170 out to Virginia from San Diego, my route was San Diego to Mesa, AZ. Mesa to Albuquerque, then Albuquerque across northern TX to Birmingham, AL and then home to Virginia.

For the OP, following I-40 should work fine to get to ABQ/SAF area and then onward should work fine. Just have 2 to 3 routes planned in order to be flexible for weather.
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But..... He’s not going to Virginia. He’s going to Georgia.:confused:

The winds can indeed get crazy though. He will have a better chance with the winds since he’s headed East though. Always take off with full tanks and have your alternates short of next leg destination thought out ahead of time.
 
MBDiagMan said:
But..... He’s not going to Virginia. He’s going to Georgia.:confused:
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I live on the VA/NC border, not much further north than GA.

On most of my trips to CA, I flew across northern GA or Southern TN.

And a great circle route (which is shortest) goes nowhere near El Paso.
 
I would take any altitude between 3000, and 9000, that would give the best tailwind, and go for it. Winter wx between TX and GA is usually rain, wintery mix, and clear depending on the day of week. Keep an eye on highs and lows. Sometimes staying north of highs, and south of lows can be quicker than straight line, due to tailwind when eastbound. ;)
Just be flexible, and have an adventure. :D
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
True, but only adds ~100nm, not enough to make a huge difference.
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At Cessna 120 speeds that is at least an hour of extra flight time to an already long journey. Not exactly trivial, but as I mentioned, there are other issues with the southern route for a slow taildragger. Of all my trips across, I've only taken the southern route once in a tailwheel and I had long enough range on that trip to overfly El Paso.
 
Bitter cold weather is the poor man's turbocharger. Rate if climb are greatly enhanced compared to 90+ degree summer weather. Exhaust heaters are very effective at high power settings.

Pick altitudes after checking the winds aloft carefully, winter time, the difference is often 20 or more knots, a very valuable asset in a 100 knot plane.

As Bluerooster pointed out, adjust the route to be on the correct side of highs and lows, windy.com will guide you with this picture.

At Cessna 120 speeds, the fastest route beats the shortest route.

Through the mountains, the conditions in the passes rule, one or the other may be the ONLY choice.

If you are flying low, staying over the Interstates is mandatory. Especially in a plane that is new to you.

Never let the tanks get below 1/3 until you are sure what your actual consumption is, and the indication accuracy of the meters of this actual plane.

East bound, I have enjoyed as much as 60 knot tail winds by climbing to 12,500 feet. The change was gradual, so no bumpy wind shear.

Winter days are short, so be at the airport well before sunup, complete your preflight by flashlight, and try to be in the air before the sun actually rises, but when the light of day is adequate for safe taxiing without lights.

I would love to be making such a trip right now.......
 
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