California legislator wants to ban "dangerous" foil balloons....

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wsuffa

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Bill S.
Sigh....

WSJ said:
California state Sen. Jack Scott says he didn't intend to "be a party pooper." It's just that helium-filled foil balloons -- like those found at hospital gift shops and office parties -- are dangerous. They float into electric lines and cause power outages, more than 800 in California last year, utilities say.
......
Mr. Scott, however, insists balloons pose a real danger and must be stopped no matter how unpopular the move may be. "It's not my intention to ruin birthday parties, but children will inevitably let these balloons go up into the air and that's a threat.
......
Some of Mr. Scott's colleagues have had some balloon mishaps, and have rallied to his cause. State Sen. Abel Maldonado, a Republican from Santa Cruz, flies his own plane to Sacramento. Once, he said, "I actually hit a pack of balloons and I thought it was the end of me."
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Link to full article, WSJ subscription required.
 
They have far too much time on their hands.

Isn't Kalifornia still on the edge of bankruptcy with higher than average inflation and taxes?
 
Jack Scott S.O.B. (Save Our Balloons) :mad:

There was a protest infront of his office sometime ago including a balloon effigy.
 
I actually heard this on NPR on the drive home.

Did some of you READ the report? It is estimated that 12% of the cities power outages in a year is from a damn ballon.

How much money was lost? How many lives in potential danger from a freaking balloon?

Is that not what risk management about? Is the use of mylar balloons worth 12% of your outages a year?

The "market" will not fix this problem because unless one is DIRECTLY affected, most people will not give two squirts about power outages if it means losing their "Happy Birthday" balloon.
 
Gotta agree there. That's a lot of outages for some kids birthday parties. For a change the politician has a valid point.
 
tdager said:
I actually heard this on NPR on the drive home.

Did some of you READ the report? It is estimated that 12% of the cities power outages in a year is from a damn ballon.

How much money was lost? How many lives in potential danger from a freaking balloon?

Is that not what risk management about? Is the use of mylar balloons worth 12% of your outages a year? ...
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Didja know that 91% of statistics are made up?

We've had endless power failures due to the storms knocking down lines. Not one due to a balloon. One in 5 should have been caused by a balloon?
 
mikea said:
Didja know that 91% of statistics are made up?
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A new study came out recently saying that only 87% of stats are made up and the almost 78& of those made up stats are within 40% of the actual values of the real stats.

mikea said:
We've had endless power failures due to the storms knocking down lines. Not one due to a balloon. One in 5 should have been caused by a balloon?
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Ban Thunderstorms!
 
http://www.bge.com/portal/site/bge/menuitem.fe9c7e782b73e84606370f10d66166a0/
Major Cause of Power Outages in U.S.*
70% Weather-related
11% Animals contacting wires
11% Unknown
4% Auto accidents
4% Utility maintenance
(Pre-arranged by utility)
1% Human error
*Total exceeds 100% due to rounding.
Source: Edison Electric Institute, 1998
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I assume mylar balloons are only part of the 11%. I'm not denying that they cause outages, just that they aren't as much as the utilities want us to believe.
 
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How does a small mylar baloon cause an outage? The amount of current necessary to melt one so that it doesn't cause a short is incredibly small.

I just tested one with a 9V battery, the balloon melted and the battery didn't even get warm.

EDIT: And I guess the balloon was mylar on the inside and some conductive material on the outside, if Mylar is an insulator.
 
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tdager said:
I actually heard this on NPR on the drive home.

Did some of you READ the report? It is estimated that 12% of the cities power outages in a year is from a damn ballon.

How much money was lost? How many lives in potential danger from a freaking balloon?

Is that not what risk management about? Is the use of mylar balloons worth 12% of your outages a year?

The "market" will not fix this problem because unless one is DIRECTLY affected, most people will not give two squirts about power outages if it means losing their "Happy Birthday" balloon.
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I'm having a hard time buying this claim. First most of these balloons are too small to make a connection between two wires carrying high voltage which are generally at least a couple feet apart. Second, the balloons are mostly mylar with a very thin coating of conductive material AFaIK and I would expect the balloon to simply vaporize if it came into contact with a high voltage source without passing enough current to trip any breakers. Third, most of the circuit breakers on transmission lines are designed to reset themselves a few times after tripping. This is because it's considered likely that an overload whether due to a tree branch touching a wire, direct contact between two conductors flailing around in the wind, or an actual consumer overload, will resolve itself in short order (no pun intended) and a quick reset if successful will turn a potential prolonged outage into a brief interruption.
 
tdager said:
Is that not what risk management about? Is the use of mylar balloons worth 12% of your outages a year?
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Ummm, fellows, I hate to "burst anyone's balloon" here, but mylar is an insulating material. Y'all sure these balloons are made of mylar?
 
2256Q said:
Ummm, fellows, I hate to "burst anyone's balloon" here, but mylar is an insulating material. Y'all sure these balloons are made of mylar?
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The article refers to "foil."

Even so, I question how such a thin layer of foil can conduct enough electricty for any length of time to cause circuits to shut down.
 
KennyFlys said:
The article refers to "foil."

Even so, I question how such a thin layer of foil can conduct enough electricty for any length of time to cause circuits to shut down.
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I was responding to post #10 about the mylar, Ken. Looked like he was quoting something, and I know about mylar from my EE days. It's an insulator used in some capacitors, and we used it as sheathing on the lunar landers.
 
2256Q said:
I was responding to post #10 about the mylar, Ken. Looked like he was quoting something, and I know about mylar from my EE days. It's an insulator used in some capacitors, and we used it as sheathing on the lunar landers.
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Yep, I realized that. I wasn't sure if you had read the article since it was supposed to be subscription only. It's not.

I was also thinking mylar was not conductive but wasn't sure. It's been a long time since I've played with any component level electronics.
 
He's probably PO'd because his wife didn't send him a balloonagram for his birthday.
Geez, get a life.
 
KennyFlys said:
Yep, I realized that. I wasn't sure if you had read the article since it was supposed to be subscription only. It's not.

I was also thinking mylar was not conductive but wasn't sure. It's been a long time since I've played with any component level electronics.
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Mylar is a pretty good electrical insulator. I assume the balloons in question are mylar with a thin aluminum coating to make them shiny.
 
I can't imagine that a ballon that thin could do ANYTHING to such a huge grid. I mean I could stick that in a house outlet and besideds a pop, nothing would happen. California, thats the problem.
 
n20junkie said:
I can't imagine that a ballon that thin could do ANYTHING to such a huge grid. I mean I could stick that in a house outlet and besideds a pop, nothing would happen. California, thats the problem.
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I have the same question. If you take a single layer of aluminum foil which is quite a bit thicker than any baloon, place a lead on each side from a simple 117VAC outlet, odds are it's going to melt.
 
smigaldi said:
A new study came out recently saying that only 87% of stats are made up and the almost 78& of those made up stats are within 40% of the actual values of the real stats.

Ban Thunderstorms!
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so balloons actually cause 52% of outages? ;):rofl:
 
Maybe they should ban cake, candles, clowns and birthday presents next.

:rolleyes:
 
KennyFlys said:
I have the same question. If you take a single layer of aluminum foil which is quite a bit thicker than any baloon, place a lead on each side from a simple 117VAC outlet, odds are it's going to melt.
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117 is not engough voltage to do much with. But at the MUCH higher voltages (several thousands) you find in transmissions lines, once you get the arc started it can keep going - it can generate it's own conductive plasma.

Look at a "Jacob's Ladder" - the arc starts out where the gap is small, but as the ionized air rises, the arc moves up with it since it provides a conductive path. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_gap
 
I think this is the same logic that applies everywhere else in the world. "Let's not focus on the problem."

Yes Mylar balloons are dangerous.
Yes they cause power outages.
Yes this costs the power company money.

Should we ban everything that, in some fashion, poses a "threat to society" (like "dangerous" airplanes, or "assault" rifles)? I think this is more of the same that we see from legislators (of all states and all parties) from time to time. I think that this could be a bit of "throwing the baby out with the bath water". Lets ban the object that injures the most people in this country every year (I think it is still either your car, or your house....depending on the specific numbers you are using).

There's an idea. Instead of banning birthday party accessories piece meal, it would be a more efficient government that just bans birthday parties altogether......pfffft.....

--Matt Rogers
 
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All legislatures, Federal and State should be part time postions with two term term limits. I hate freaking career politicians. Just more egomaniacs with too much time on their hands.
 
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