Calculating the Rent vs Buy equation

timrb said:
There it is. I expect most people who do the math quickly figure out that it's much cheaper to rent than buy. In other words they end up renting airplanes their whole lives, all the while wishing they owned one.

Tim
Click to expand...

or, even though they realize it's much cheaper to rent, they still spend the money on aviation because, well, it's well worth it. duh
 
To be fair, renting is not ALL negatives. It's nice having someone else be responsible for the airplane being kept in airworthy condition, for example.
 
bradg33 said:
For most people, unless you're using it for true business, there is no financial justification for ownership. You either want to own because of the intangibles (access, it's your plane, etc.) or you don't. Other than simply ensuring you can afford it (it's expensive, there's no way around that), if you do the math on true ownership costs, you'll sell it. There's some truth to the joke about whether you can just light $100 bills on fire without flinching...
Click to expand...

If you actually use it for travel (personal, business) then you need to own. If you rent you will pay a minimum per day (3-4 hrs typically), so go fly 4 hours away for a week long vacation, you’ll pay for 21-28 hours, not 8.
 
Also consider the piece of crap you get when renting someone else's plane that dozens of other morons rent and treat like a rental. What kind of condition is it in? What equipment does it have, does any of it work, etc.

If you can find a plane that's available when you want it, is well equipped and maintained, and is nice to fly for $140 an hour, by all means, jump on it.
 
I am lucky to have at least three options near me where GA rentals are available (KSEP/KDGDJ/KCPT). That may give me more options. Other than in Clifton (7F7) which is only 20 miles away, those others are around 35. If I were to buy, I would have to rent tiedown space there. I doubt that the folks over at Flat Top Ranch would offer space, but it sure would be closer!

How do I find out about flying clubs near me? Are those a good option for a newly-minted A-SEL pilot? Initial missions would be putting about Central Texas showing the wife what the top of everything we drive by looks like. After that, maybe some overnighters or $100 salad runs.
 
My $0.02. The break even seems to be between 50-100 hrs depending on hangar costs.

To everyone’s point, and I never totally agreed until getting back into aviation now, there is a convenience and personality factor that pushes people to own.

I’ve dreamed of owning since getting my license in 1993. But then had a new wife, then a new house, then a new kid, then some more kids and got laid off, which changed my whole financial outlook.

My wife won’t fly with me (doesn’t want to orphan the kids) and always used to say (before kids) can’t we get there faster and for less $ on Southwest? Investing in a hobby strictly for me was sort of a non-starter. Still is with college x3 on the horizon but I finally have some financial cushion to not worry about it.

Time? There’s the problem. I have very little free time with my job. And I don’t know when that is all that far in advance (and it often changes last min - that free spot on the weekend is gone because of a new deal dropped on Friday).

What I’m learning right now, real time, is renting means I can’t fly right now. The schools near me are booked solid about 2 weeks out. My schedule isn’t consistent enough to pull that off. I’ve cancelled three flights in the past 4 weeks (and flown none) because the work schedule changed (I cancelled a few days out, not hours).

Those spots almost immediately get taken but I can’t reschedule, then, for about 2-weeks. Same with weather. I can plan my big (to me) client trip, weather doesn’t agree, I can’t just push a day. There are no planes available.

What never used to be a problem, and I’m mostly talking about a 2-hour hamburger run or something, is very difficult now.

Ownership in a partnership would be ideal except I’ve found it very challenging to find like minded partners and plane values are crazy now.

If you can afford, and your wife doesn’t care if you do, do it. Don’t waste time like I did. We’ve got well funded 529s, 401k, investments and home mortgage is way down (no car or other pmts) and I’m generally unhappy. Don’t be me.
 
Last edited:
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
My $0.02. The break even seems to be between 50-100 hrs depending on hangar costs.

To everyone’s point, and I never totally agreed until getting back into aviation now, there is a convenience and personality factor that pushes people to own.

I’ve dreamed of owning since getting my license in 1993. But then had a new wife, then a new house, then a new kid, then some more kids and got laid off, which changed my whole financial outlook.

My wife won’t fly with me (doesn’t want to orphan the kids) and always used to say (before kids) can’t we get there faster and for less $ on Southwest? Investing in a hobby strictly for me was sort of a non-starter. Still is with college x3 on the horizon but I finally have some financial cushion to not worry about it.

Time? There’s the problem. I have very little free time with my job. And I don’t know when that is all that far in advance (and it often changes last min - that free spot on the weekend is gone because of a new deal dropped on Friday).

What I’m learning right now, real time, is renting means I can’t fly right now. The schools near me are booked solid about 2 weeks out. My schedule isn’t consistent enough to pull that off. I’ve cancelled three flights in the past 4 weeks (and flown none) because the work schedule changed (I cancelled a few days out, not hours).

Those spots almost immediately get taken but I can’t reschedule, then, for about 2-weeks. Same with weather. I can plan my big (to me) client trip, weather doesn’t agree, I can’t just push a day. There are no planes available.

What never used to be a problem, and I’m mostly talking about a 2-hour hamburger run or something, is very difficult now.

Ownership in a partnership would be ideal except I’ve found it very challenging to find like minded partners and plane values are crazy now.

If you can afford, and your wife doesn’t care if you do, do it. Don’t waste time like I did. We’ve got we’ll funded 529s, 401k, investments and home mortgage is way down (no car or other pmts) and I’m generally unhappy. Don’t be me.
Click to expand...

This is an excellent post and highlights the whole dilemma. If you’re average middle class like most of us, you have to fit ownership into the whole picture. You need the wife to be on board because the money that goes into ownership doesn’t go to retirement and with modern medicine we are all living longer, and the female is statistically likely to outlive the male by years. If she isn’t into GA herself, she sees you spending away her old age comfort for a hobby. (Whereas her twenty million shoes are a necessity.) But the man, being the main breadwinner, then feels used as a wallet, expected to work his butt off without having fun only to die so she can live on in comfort.

Both are right. If you have your retirement planning on track, and you budget, you should do it early while you still have your health. Owning is massively better than renting, if you want to use it for travel. We are retiring right now “comfortably”. If we hadn’t owned planes we might have been more comfortable, by a lot. But we also would have been if we’d lived in a trailer, never gone out to eat, worn only old clothes and - the big one - never had kids. You have to balance what you want in the present with saving for the future, a future that’s unknown by the way; you might not live to see it, or the dollar might collapse and all your savings evaporate.

For the sake of the marriage, both need to agree. Not good to buy a plane against the wife’s wishes and also not good to deny yourself something this important, which for most GA pilots, it’s part of your identity, been in your blood since childhood. Not being able to realize that dream is to not be happy and no woman should wish her man to be unhappy. Conversely, she won’t be happy if she doesn’t feel financially secure.

If you’re rich it’s not an issue, everybody gets what they want. If you’re poor it’s not an issue, nobody gets what they want. It’s those of us in the middle that need to sit down with a budget and try to meet everyone’s needs and wants.

Or, get a time machine, go back and don’t marry a girl who isn’t herself into flying. :D
 
somorris said:
You will fly more if you own.

My wife insisted I buy because she didn’t trust the maintenance on local rentals. We bought a simple airplane. Our “break even” annual flying hours compared to renting is right at 50 hours a year. That is factoring in everything, including an engine overhaul in 2020. We have owned our current airplane for over 15 years.

There are SEVERAL airplanes at our local airport that sit most of the time. I think people have a tendency to over estimate their planned use of an airplane, then when they buy one, life gets in the way and the airplane sits a lot. Especially after the new wears off.

Good luck with your decision!
Click to expand...

Amen. Make sure your wife or SO is into flying GA, with the attendant delays, and hot weather, bumps, etc. maybe rent for a couple of trips and see if she is into it. My wife was aware I was a pilot and was going to buy something before we got married. 41 years later, she is not into the $100 hamburger runs, but will go for the 5 hr per day XC. Not to happy if we are in the plane for more than 2.5 hrs, stop, and then another 2.5 hrs.
 
Half Fast said:
This is akin to calculating the cost of marriage versus the cost of dating...


HINT: It’s not a mathematical decision.
Click to expand...

yeah... what’s the old saying.... If it flies, floats or $&#s, better to rent! ;)
 
Rcmutz said:
Amen. Make sure your wife or SO is into flying GA, with the attendant delays, and hot weather, bumps, etc. maybe rent for a couple of trips and see if she is into it. My wife was aware I was a pilot and was going to buy something before we got married. 41 years later, she is not into the $100 hamburger runs, but will go for the 5 hr per day XC. Not to happy if we are in the plane for more than 2.5 hrs, stop, and then another 2.5 hrs.
Click to expand...

^ Definitely this.

I was married before I got my PPL. I had looked getting my PPL in college, but made a smart financial decision as a poor college student not to do that. Then I forgot about it, working on my masters, work, marriage, kids; so many distractions.

I think my wife has been on only one $100 hamburger flight with me, and oddly at her suggestion. If I'm practicing approaches, she'll tell me to have a good time and she'll see me later. :) If we're going somewhere, she's all in.

She was a bit leery of it at first as she's a little motion sensitive. I found pretty quickly that she liked flying better than driving in many regards. It's faster and she can read in the plane. In a car she gets nauseous if she reads. I have her drive a lot in day time trips as I can read in car with no problems. It did take her a bit to get used to the bumps on the descent as we get closer to the ground; I found that it was not the bump up that bothered her, but rather the drop back down. Now it doesn't bother her much at all.

If your spouse is not into it then there will typically be a lot less flying, plus potentially a push back from a financial perspective as Rushie mentioned.

There's no way my wife would have agreed with buying a plane right after my PPL. Probably not even the 1/3 share I now have in my plane. Now that it's been years and we travel a lot she has no issue with it. I don't think she would have an issue at this point if I bought one solo, but I like cutting the expenses down by having at least one partner.
 
Last edited:
midwestpa24 said:
Or having children.

Most economists agree, having children is the worst financial decision a person can ever make. Obviously people still do it.
Click to expand...
I think owning a plane has put me (much) further behind on savings than raising 2 kids and helping them through university.

That CA$8–15K/year I've paid since 2002 to keep the plane flying might be over CA$500k now if invested in ETFs tracking the US major indices (just a guess, but probably not far off).

(CA$1.00 = US$0.78)
 
David Megginson said:
I think owning a plane has put me (much) further behind on savings than raising 2 kids and helping them through university.

That CA$8–15K/year I've paid since 2002 to keep the plane flying might be over CA$500k now if invested in ETFs tracking the US major indices (just a guess, but probably not far off).

(CA$1.00 = US$0.78)
Click to expand...

$15k a year for two kids? o_O

LOL

Not even close.
 
Good article I just got in my email today, his Bronco story reminds me of a high school buddy that commuted 50 or so miles each way to tech school/community college in a 56 Chevy 1/2 ton on 44" tires getting 6 mpg. It makes a lot of sense and confirms a lot of my feelings on airplane buying. I'm going to be in the market in the next 2 years hopefully and buying an airplane is one place I won't run numbers other than can I actually afford it. It will be a much more emotional decision as it's a hobby not a busyness transaction. If your flying for busyness it won't probably work that way, but then renting won't either. Now I'm off to dream about skywagons, stinsons, maules and other planes that may not fit my mission but will be an absolute joy to fly :)

https://www.flyingmag.com/when-cons...hrQ&utm_content=198769582&utm_source=hs_email
 
yeah lately I've been dreaming of Cherokee 6s and Saratogas.
 
Salty said:
Also consider the piece of crap you get when renting someone else's plane that dozens of other morons rent and treat like a rental. What kind of condition is it in? What equipment does it have, does any of it work, etc.

If you can find a plane that's available when you want it, is well equipped and maintained, and is nice to fly for $140 an hour, by all means, jump on it.
Click to expand...

Yep. I still remember the day I said to myself..."that's it, I've had enough. The ONLY way it makes sense to keep flying is to own". It wasn't a purely financial equation. How hard I had to work just to keep current was a huge factor too.

I had come out of a rusty period due to a relocation move. Was current VFR and actively renting, working on getting instrument current again. I was struggling even then to keep current because of work travel, etc... The rental rates and taken a huge leap up in my time not flying, so much so that it was stinging. The rental 177RG had a problem popping the breaker when the electric flaps actuated. I had reported it a week prior, they said it was "fixed" but it happened my very next flight. I said I'm paying way too much for this piece of trash and all the inconvenience. I have no idea what might be cracked or damaged from the preceding renter....how safe is it really? I couldn't leave my "stuff" in the plane and had to re-set it all up every time...get the seat adjusted, things stowed, reset the avionics how I like them, etc... every time. That alone ate up some of the available time that I was paying way too much for and it just seemed like I could never get everything fully situated. And I had to alter my schedule around availability, could rarely use it for a longer trip when i wanted to because someone had it booked for a 2 hour slot right in the middle of the time I needed. It just downright cost too much.
So...I hatched a plan. I was thinking about buying a Cessna 170 maybe. Maybe trying to find one that needed work and doing an owner assisted refurb job on it. (my neighbor at the time was a retired IA).
Well...I Hadn't made very much progress for my plan when I got laid off from work...had kids.... and then fell into the trap that I remember old guys telling me when I was a young new pilot. I remember those guys that I'd find out had a PPL telling me they used fly but life got in the way. I told myself that'll never happen to me...there's no reason to not go for at least a flight or two every month. Joke was on me!
 
wayne said:
$15k a year for two kids? o_O

LOL

Not even close.
Click to expand...
Different countries I guess. They cost us maybe CA$5,000–10,000/year each when they were in university at first to help with living expenses (they'd already saved up a lot, and tuition is only CA$7,000–$8,000 here, even going to Canada's top 2 schools as they did), but both were fully self-supporting by the end. Earlier, when they were in high school, we sent each of them on a ~CA$5,000 trip to Europe. They both chose inexpensive sports (swimming and Little League baseball). Other than that, minor expenses from time to time (takeout cost more, but we cooked most of our own meals; clothes weren't that expensive either).

And (to get back on topic) it didn't cost anything extra to pop them into my Piper PA-28-161 for March-break trips to NYC, summer trips to the East Coast, baseball games in Boston or Toronto, or visits to relatives. :)
 
When I was a student pilot with 6 hours in my logbook, I ran across a nice Cessna 152 for sale at a reasonable price. My decision was whether I should continue to rent knowing that I would need at least 40 hours of flight time to get my PPL or should I purchase the Cessna and put it in a leaseback. I did a breakeven analysis and concluded that it is is best to rent if you are flying less than about 100 hours a year and better to buy if you anticipate more hours. Then I did the breakeven analysis on the leaseback and calculated the number of hours of revenue that I would need to surpass costs. It actually worked out great in my case because revenue hours were much larger than I anticipated and I actually made money on the leaseback. It rarely works out this well.
 
Buy v rent - as long as the airplanes are roughly comparable from a performance standpoint, there is almost always a number of hours where buying makes more sense than renting. The question is - will you fly that number of hours?

Example - Prior to the OMG THE PRICES jump, for me that break even was coming in around 100 hours, but that included stepping from a 172 to an early Mooney. Will I fly 100 hours a year? No, probably not right now, work is way too time consuming. With prices so much higher, the break even has gone up a little, say around 120 hours. But I'm still unlikely to fly 10 hours a month, that is two very long XCs every month.

Bottom line - unless you really are going to fly a lot, renting and the restrictions that come with it is almost always better financially. Keep in mind that to fly that much, you're probably looking at committing to spending $1000-$1500 every month.
 
David Megginson said:
Different countries I guess. They cost us maybe CA$5,000–10,000/year each when they were in university at first to help with living expenses (they'd already saved up a lot, and tuition is only CA$7,000–$8,000 here, even going to Canada's top 2 schools as they did), but both were fully self-supporting by the end. Earlier, when they were in high school, we sent each of them on a ~CA$5,000 trip to Europe. They both chose inexpensive sports (swimming and Little League baseball). Other than that, minor expenses from time to time (takeout cost more, but we cooked most of our own meals; clothes weren't that expensive either).
Click to expand...

Not that different; these numbers are from 2011 (so add 10 years of inflation); article.

According to MoneySense.ca, the average cost of raising a child to age 18 is a whopping $243,660. Break down that number, and that’s $12,825 per child, per year -- or $1,070 per month. And that's before you send them off to university.​

Current average in the US (article):
  • The cost of raising a child until age 17 is $233,610 on average.
The article on the costs in the US also lists the differences spent be low, middle an high income families.
 
thing about counting numbers of hours of flying to break even. I recon that it's significantly easier to fly more hours if you own as compared to rent
 
I guess my plan of hanging out at the FBO pumps is not too far off course then! The first owner I find griping about the cost of Avgas will have me sidling up and offering to pay "not more than my fair share" for currency time!
 
Daleandee said:
In my house I don't think that even covered the groceries in the teenage years ... :D
Click to expand...
Different ways of raising kids. I know someone who spent >CA$20k/year on each kid just for sports (competitive junior downhill skiing and competitive junior soccer). That was a decade ago, so someone would be spending more now.

Little League and swimming cost us maybe CA$500/year each including gear and a cheap motel or two during out of town meets. And they both stopped when they they hit high school and took up competitive improv and theater instead, which cost us $0.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top