C208 and Paraglider midair 12/21/21

As much as I hate regulations, I do wish there was a way to see those things on a traffic system. Closest I have ever come to a mid-air was on an ILS into VPZ. Popped out of the clouds at about the FAF and just below and to my 1:00 at very short range was a paraglider. No time to react and no way to know that he was there until I saw him. No reason they couldn't use one of the cheap ADSb solutions as well.
 
Jeezus, what are the odds? Pilot was flying for UPS.
 
SethV said:
As much as I hate regulations, I do wish there was a way to see those things on a traffic system. Closest I have ever come to a mid-air was on an ILS into VPZ. Popped out of the clouds at about the FAF and just below and to my 1:00 at very short range was a paraglider. No time to react and no way to know that he was there until I saw him. No reason they couldn't use one of the cheap ADSb solutions as well.
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The cheap ADSB equipment needs an electrical system, a transponder, an encoder, a static system, etc. I'd also venture that the really lightweight 2 stroke system on a paraglider doesn't have any electricals OR a place to mount the hardware, GPS, or antenna.
Besides, that stuff is in the heart of the "see and avoid" flying experience.
 
SethV said:
As much as I hate regulations, I do wish there was a way to see those things on a traffic system. Closest I have ever come to a mid-air was on an ILS into VPZ. Popped out of the clouds at about the FAF and just below and to my 1:00 at very short range was a paraglider. No time to react and no way to know that he was there until I saw him. No reason they couldn't use one of the cheap ADSb solutions as well.
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More people looking outside will do more than more gizmos inside for avoiding VMC collisions.

I fly low level VMC, I got no issue picking out kites, paragliders, other aircraft, birds, etc.

Keep your glass clean and use your eyes, the panicked people I hear on the radio seem to be the ones stressing with there eyeballs on their panel and not out the windows, also usually airplanes.
 
Jeez. When it’s your day it’s your day. Gos bless. Read in comments that the 208 was at 4800’ at time of the collision. That’s pretty high for a paraglider right???
 
kyleb said:
The cheap ADSB equipment needs an electrical system, a transponder, an encoder, a static system, etc. I'd also venture that the really lightweight 2 stroke system on a paraglider doesn't have any electricals OR a place to mount the hardware, GPS, or antenna.
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There's also the cost, in an aircraft that costs less than $10K new.

benyflyguy said:
Read in comments that the 208 was at 4800’ at time of the collision. That’s pretty high for a paraglider right???
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It'd be high for a powered paraglider (PPG) but not high at all for an unpowered one working thermal lift.
 
IAH to Victoria, had just leveled off at 4,800, filed for 6,000. According to a poster on Kathryn’s, that area is known for “Intensive” glider activity.
From KL:

N1116N never saw the paraglider.
last three ADS-B returns.
Time: :25:07
Pos.: 29.666,-95.925
Speed: 162 kt
Altitude: 4800 ft
Vert. Rate: 64 ft/min
Track: 231.3°

Time: :25:31
Pos.: 29.655,-95.941
Speed: 162 kt
Altitude: 4800 ft
Vert. Rate: 64 ft/min
Track: 231.8°

Time: :25:34 seconds
Pos.: 29.654,-95.943
Speed: 145 kt
Altitude: ▼ 4600 ft
Vert. Rate: -8960 ft/min
Track: 243.4°

Area is listed as a Parachute jump area to 24,000. With an approach and a departure path right through it…
 
DavidWhite said:
careful now the luddites on this website seem to think ADS-B is a complete waste of time.
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Not a waste of time, just frustration with government malpractice to not find a way to allow for one to broadcast type only and keep their personal identity private. I'd equip my Luscombe with a portable unit in a heartbeat if I could do so in that kind of manner.
 
MountainDude said:
Consumer drones that weigh less than 1 lb now have ADS-B.
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But of course we can't put a cheap drone version ADS-B in our 1940s certified aircraft without throwing someone an arm and a leg... because reasons. The FAA seriously needs to consider a cheap portable small, non-panel unit that just broadcasts 1200, position, altitude, and speed that anyone can throw in their vintage taildragger, glider, hang-glider, etc.
 
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benyflyguy said:
Jeez. When it’s your day it’s your day. Gos bless. Read in comments that the 208 was at 4800’ at time of the collision. That’s pretty high for a paraglider right???
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The better hang glider pilots in this area regularly get up to 6000msl
on a good thermal day.
 
RyanShort1 said:
frustration with government malpractice to not find a way to allow for one to broadcast type only and keep their personal identity private.
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"Just because you are ADS-B equipped, doesn’t mean you want to be tracked. With tailBeacon’s Anonymous Mode, your aircraft identification remains hidden from the ADS-B OUT signal while squawking 1200. Anonymous Mode keeps the skies safe while protecting your privacy."
 
BladeSlap said:
More people looking outside will do more than more gizmos inside for avoiding VMC collisions.

I fly low level VMC, I got no issue picking out kites, paragliders, other aircraft, birds, etc.

Keep your glass clean and use your eyes, the panicked people I hear on the radio seem to be the ones stressing with there eyeballs on their panel and not out the windows, also usually airplanes.
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I will guarantee that you've missed at least one flying object. And it takes only one to make a disaster.
Davecat said:
Severe clear day here. Contract UPS caravan flight, pilot fatality. Other reports indicate paraglider pilots body located 2 miles away.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/...os-river-in-fort-bend-county-authorities-say/
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Is a paraglider considered an ultralight aircraft?
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I will guarantee that you've missed at least one flying object. And it takes only one to make a disaster.

Is a paraglider considered an ultralight aircraft?
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Maybe, but it wasn’t a factor.

Can you show me some data showing how the already super rare mid airs have DRASTICALLY dropped since the mandated trackers went into service?
 
BladeSlap said:
Maybe, but it wasn’t a factor.

Can you show me some data showing how the already super rare mid airs have DRASTICALLY dropped since the mandated trackers went into service?
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Have you ever had a close call? Such as a < 100 meter encounter? I have (flight training at busy airports with a lot of transients). I would love to know where the skybumps are; I don't care who they are, I just want to give them wide berth.
As an ultralight, it will be interesting to see if the paraglider was allowed to be where he was. My paragliding friend seems to just go where he wants to; pretty sure he's never cracked a FAR/AIM open.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Have you ever had a close call? Such as a < 100 meter encounter? I have (flight training at busy airports with a lot of transients). I would love to know where the skybumps are; I don't care who they are, I just want to give them wide berth.
As an ultralight, it will be interesting to see if the paraglider was allowed to be where he was. My paragliding friend seems to just go where he wants to; pretty sure he's never cracked a FAR/AIM open.
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I’m in the US, but 100 meters is 328’ according to google, hmm, we fly 500 and below by default. So 328 is not super close for me
 
BladeSlap said:
Can you show me some data showing how the already super rare mid airs have DRASTICALLY dropped since the mandated trackers went into service?
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On a quite hazy day last year as I was approaching my estate I was about to descend to have a look-see at the property from the air. The ADS-B showed one dead ahead at a couple of miles and 1000' below me. As I climbed and turned looking for him in the sun I finally found him as he passed just left and below me.

Would I have seen him in my scan if had started descending? I want to think that I would have but the glare from the sun was making a scan difficult. The ADS-B made me aware that there was an object there. Would I have collided with him if I had not seen him? I don't know but the "big sky" seems to be getting smaller everyday.

I like using my eyes (scan), my ears (radio), and my ADS-B together to really try to keep from harming me or any other human being.
 
BladeSlap said:
I’m in the US, but 100 meters is 328’ according to google, hmm, we fly 500 and below by default. So 328 is not super close for me
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Coming at you, with a closing speed of a couple of hundreds knots, it's super, super, super close.
Sad that you had to google meters to feet. I grew up bimetric, Pop loved Italian and Japanese motorcycles, but at my day job GE Aviation still builds the most powerful jet engines on the planet to Imperial dimensions.
 
I must confess, I would never have expected a paramotor at 5000 ft just outside the Houston Class B. It would be hart to spot, especially in a climb (this pilot had just been instructed by ATC to climb to 6,000 ft.)

I thought paramotors and ultralights were limited to Glass G airspace without special permission from ATC? Am I missing something important? Even if it was legal, I question the wisdom of choosing to park a paramotor at 5000 ft only 5 nautical miles from the Mode C veil and Class B airspace with a floor of 4000 ft. I have had ATC warn me of traffic on their primary radar before, eg. "Traffic 3 o'clock. 2 miles. Type and altitude unknown." However, in this case ATC probably had no idea there was a paramotor in the area since primary radar typically filters out targets that are moving slowly to limit clutter. Threshold is typically set to less than 30 or 40 kts and paramotors typically only fly at 25 kts (a lot slower than even most gliders). Shows just how important it is to always keep your eyes outside the cockpit even when flying on an IFR flight plan and communicating with ATC.

Kathryn's just deleted all posts and most information on this crash this morning. Here's a link to the ADSB Data I saved:

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?ica...m=11.2&showTrace=2021-12-21&leg=2&trackLabels

Note: some people are saying the pilot should have know he was flying towards an area of "intensive glider activity". However, he was probably looking at an IFR chart, not a VFR chart. Even if he did pull up the VFR chart, he probably would not expect gliders at 5000 ft at 9:26 AM local this time of year in Houston. Without hills/mountains, gliders need thermals to climb. My homefield has a lot of glider activity and ATC always informs traffic whenever they "see" glider activity. There was no such advisory from ATC on this flight.
 
Protected airspace is protected airspace. If the paramotor was outside protected airspace, he was fine. Implying that he was somehow in the wrong for being a few miles from protected airspace doesn’t work for me. See and avoid is SOP unless you’re IMC or are in airspace where someone on the ground is tasked with creating separation.
 
Mach Diamond said:
I must confess, I would never have expected a paramotor at 5000 ft just outside the Houston Class B.
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You should; the sectional has a glider symbol and a warning of intensive glider activity right near that spot. IFR or VFR doesn't matter in VMC. Know where you're flying and look. I fly around a similar gliderport, and the number of pilots with their eyes somewhere else is staggering. ****, even when the gliders are taking on the radio some power pilots ignore them.
 
Lindberg said:
And that's in only.
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Yep. None of the DJI aircraft by design (or other consumer drones) have ADS-B out as far as I'm aware. The drone pilot gets a warning saying that an aircraft is nearby and to descend ASAP but doesn't specify what kind of aircraft, how high they are, how fast they are, etc. It also provides the ADS-B hexcode of the aircraft but that's not very useful in real time.
 
Mach Diamond said:
I thought paramotors and ultralights were limited to Glass G airspace without special permission from ATC? Am I missing something important?
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Yes. Class E airspace not designated for an airport which is purd near everywhere.

103.17 Operations in certain airspace.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.
 
Daleandee said:
On a quite hazy day last year as I was approaching my estate I was about to descend to have a look-see at the property from the air. The ADS-B showed one dead ahead at a couple of miles and 1000' below me. As I climbed and turned looking for him in the sun I finally found him as he passed just left and below me.

Would I have seen him in my scan if had started descending? I want to think that I would have but the glare from the sun was making a scan difficult. The ADS-B made me aware that there was an object there. Would I have collided with him if I had not seen him? I don't know but the "big sky" seems to be getting smaller everyday.

I like using my eyes (scan), my ears (radio), and my ADS-B together to really try to keep from harming me or any other human being.
Click to expand...

I think with the way inflation vs pay is going, plus adding more and more regulations, and of course people choosing to be more homebodies and shut ins, there will be less and less GA, so big sky is growing outside, of the busses in the flight levels.



Kenny Phillips said:
Coming at you, with a closing speed of a couple of hundreds knots, it's super, super, super close.
Sad that you had to google meters to feet. I grew up bimetric, Pop loved Italian and Japanese motorcycles, but at my day job GE Aviation still builds the most powerful jet engines on the planet to Imperial dimensions.
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It’s just funny when people choose to use meters in a American group, like using the word “foto”

Not many aircraft at my altitude at a few hundred knots shy of me for some reason deciding to fly through a approach path.

As for the Cessnas and the like doing under 120kts, most are 500 above my altitude, and I still can pick the important ones out easily.

Would be interesting to see the drastic drop in midairs since ADSB came out, seems based on airport stories everyone had their life saved multiple times by their ADSB. What’s the chances
 
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I'll bet we can all name a few recent midairs where both pilots were squawking and talking.
 
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