C182 TruTrak auto pilot

[Jesse Saint]

We just got our first Cessna 182 TruTrak installed. It worked great with default settings driving off of an Avidyne IFD540. Hope to have our second install flying tomorrow and our first PA32 install mid next week. Great improvement for a plane that is great for long distance traveling.

 

[JOhnH]

https://www.bonanza.org/community/m...on/posts/jan-2018/trutrak-autopilot-stc-list/

From Bonanza.org:
**************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
I contacted Trutrak and they said STC should drop by the end of the year for our Bonanza's. See below for quoted email they sent me.

Hello Michael,

Yes, we are going to bring in a straight tail and a V tail bonanza and that will be the last airplane in 2018 that we certify. So a couple more months but it is definitely on our list, I will keep you updated.

Thanks,

Corey Reed
TruTrak Flight Systems
1488 S Old Missouri Rd
Springdale, AR 72764
Phone: 1 (479) 751-0250
www.trutrakflightsystems.com
******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
But their web site doesn't list the Bonanza yet. Is it possible the web site has not been updated?

 

[Jesse Saint]

The Bonanza is definitely on the list. They are finishing up the Mooney now, then Comanches, then Bonanzas and Grummans. I wouldn’t hold my breath for the end of this year, but it should be coming soon.

 

[asicer]

Yes, we are going to bring in a straight tail and a V tail bonanza and that will be the last airplane in 2018 that we certify. So a couple more months but it is definitely on our list, I will keep you updated.

The Bonanza is definitely on the list. They are finishing up the Mooney now, then Comanches, then Bonanzas and Grummans. I wouldn’t hold my breath for the end of this year, but it should be coming soon.

I forget, what's the formula for converting aviation years to real years again?

 

[Jesse Saint]

I don’t speak for TruTrak. I just speak from experience seeing them progress. The 182/PA-32 submission and approval took WAY longer than expected, which pushed the Mooney back, which has also gone through some redesign, which pushed the next model back, etc. With systems like an EFIS (G5, G3X, Aspen E5, etc), there is almost nothing specific to an airplane. The auto pilot is not only under scrutiny because of the Boeing issue recently, but it has to be extremely airframe specific. TruTrak could have moved much faster if they had developed an installation that left out some models of different airframes, but they have made a point of developing to include all models, which is a big plus. Who knows when a GFC500 will be available for my 1956 182. TruTrak is now.

 

[JOhnH]

I don’t speak for TruTrak. I just speak from experience seeing them progress. The 182/PA-32 submission and approval took WAY longer than expected, which pushed the Mooney back, which has also gone through some redesign, which pushed the next model back, etc. With systems like an EFIS (G5, G3X, Aspen E5, etc), there is almost nothing specific to an airplane. The auto pilot is not only under scrutiny because of the Boeing issue recently, but it has to be extremely airframe specific. TruTrak could have moved much faster if they had developed an installation that left out some models of different airframes, but they have made a point of developing to include all models, which is a big plus. Who knows when a GFC500 will be available for my 1956 182. TruTrak is now.

I wasn't really complaining. I fully understand the problems when dealing with a governmental approval process. Besides, I will probably be holding off on any other serious upgrades anyway until Textron (or someone else) irons out the problems with the V-Tail ruddervators.

 

[Unit74]

I wasn't really complaining. I fully understand the problems when dealing with a governmental approval process. Besides, I will probably be holding off on any other serious upgrades anyway until Textron (or someone else) irons out the problems with the V-Tail ruddervators.

The problem was the Doctor behind the yoke....

 

[hindsight2020]

The problem was the Doctor behind the yoke....

I don't think that's the problem he's referring to. I think it's the magnesium tail skin sourcing problems going forward. How does it go again, tic toc tic toc like you say?

 

[bnt83]

A whole lot of stuff stopped during the last government shutdown, pushing many approval projects

 

[Unit74]

I don't think that's the problem he's referring to. I think it's the magnesium tail skin sourcing problems going forward. How does it go again, tic toc tic toc like you say?

I guess... make them out of unobtainium..... I hear Raptor is also using it, so it should be avail. Just place a deposit in escrow to secure your ruddervators now.

 

[hindsight2020]

I guess... make them out of unobtainium..... I hear Raptor is also using it, so it should be avail. Just place a deposit in escrow to secure your ruddervators now.

Well, they're currently made out of unobtanium, people are simply just nursing the tail skins they got. The irony is that the CG-compatible replacement already exists and has even preceded metals: Fabric covered tail. But that would be the death of the 35 series resale, imo.

The benefit to the 35 Bo fleet is the size. So the cannibalizing can continue for probably 10-15? more years before things actually hit a "mainstreet" stop. My guess is they STC the replacement between now and then. Adopters of fabric would be small imo, so they're gonna have to shoehorn a metal replacement if they want to keep the fleet from mothballing. Of course as far as Beech is concerned they already fixed the glitch way back when they put the straight tail on it. Straight tail pricing will continue to inflate as a consequence of a progressive shift away from eventual orphaned dove tails. The lower hull value 35s would of course be hit the hardest, as they make the least economic sense to sink money, both airframe and avionics, into.

 

[Erichh]

Jesse, any guess when the TruTrak approval will be finalized for Mooneys? Are they doing all models at once, or something like just Js to start with?

 

[Erichh]

Also, I know you can use the new Aspen E5 to set the heading/altitude for the TruTrak. Can you do the same with the older Aspen Evolution 1000?

 

[CMongoose]

According to the last answer that I had from Aspen (about 3 weeks ago) yes we will be able to, without requiring the Max upgrade.

 

[Jesse Saint]

I can’t speak to the Aspen features, but I think Aspen needs to start shipping functional Screen-RSM combinations before any features at all work. I’m going on 5-6 weeks since a failed E5 install without a single word from Aspen on when they will ship me a functional system.

Back to the topic of the thread. First flight of a TruTrak on a 182D (old style install kit) yesterday yielded beautiful results with stock settings. First flight this afternoon on a 182E (new style install kit) yielded beautiful results with stock settings.

PA-32 install going on in the shop now and another coming in next week.

Thanks for a fantastic product at a fantastic price, TruTrak, if you’re listening.

 

[Erichh]

Jesse, that’s great news on the 182 front.

Not sure if you saw my question before, but do you have a sense of when the TruTrak approval will be finalized for the Mooneys?

 

[Jesse Saint]

I don’t know much, but they are close to finalizing the design and hope to have approval by Oshkosh. Still, they are at the mercy of the FAA after they submit.

 

[Unit74]

Also, I know you can use the new Aspen E5 to set the heading/altitude for the TruTrak. Can you do the same with the older Aspen Evolution 1000?

Not yet.... th software isn’t done. TT says they plan on submitting middle May to the FAA. So a few months after that assuming no shutdowns.

 

[Lynn Dixon]

I can’t speak to the Aspen features, but I think Aspen needs to start shipping functional Screen-RSM combinations before any features at all work. I’m going on 5-6 weeks since a failed E5 install without a single word from Aspen on when they will ship me a functional system.

Back to the topic of the thread. First flight of a TruTrak on a 182D (old style install kit) yesterday yielded beautiful results with stock settings. First flight this afternoon on a 182E (new style install kit) yielded beautiful results with stock settings.

PA-32 install going on in the shop now and another coming in next week.

Thanks for a fantastic product at a fantastic price, TruTrak, if you’re listening.

Thats a strong claim. My unit is about to be finished up, and it's testing OK. It was one that shipped out in the first batch. There's also several other installs out there flying with no issues.

 

[Unit74]

Lynn

I spoke to Aspen and asked about the failed RSMs and they were aware of it and trying to find out what the issue was. But I was told it “was only a couple isolated incidents”. If and when I go down this road, if I end up with a DOA E5 and they can’t sort it immediately, they will regret that sale.

 

[wheaties]

What about the RG variants? I see 172 "all" but does that means 172rg? I see 177 but does that include RG? Likewise, with this upcoming 182, do you know if it'll cover rg? Seems even the GFC 500 can't do those ...yet.

 

[Jesse Saint]

The Tritrak is approved in, yes, all variants of 172, 177 and 182’s, including the RG’s.

 

[Jesse Saint]

Thats a strong claim. My unit is about to be finished up, and it's testing OK. It was one that shipped out in the first batch. There's also several other installs out there flying with no issues.

I’ve heard reports like that, but I tried 5 different RSM’s with the same problem in all of them. I spent hours and hours running all of the tests they asked me to run and it yielded no good fruit. Again, not a word from them since before Sun N Fun.

 

[Lynn Dixon]

I’ve heard reports like that, but I tried 5 different RSM’s with the same problem in all of them. I spent hours and hours running all of the tests they asked me to run and it yielded no good fruit. Again, not a word from them since before Sun N Fun.

I wonder if it wasn't just a bad display unit? That's an oddly repeatable failure mode.

But yeah... Totally agree with you on their radio silence. They should at least call or email you to give an update.... Even if it's "nothing concrete yet, still working on it".

 

[hindsight2020]

I wasn't really complaining. I fully understand the problems when dealing with a governmental approval process. Besides, I will probably be holding off on any other serious upgrades anyway until Textron (or someone else) irons out the problems with the V-Tail ruddervators.

I just perused BT after writing my original reply. Holy crap brother, I didn't know you guys were actually full stop AOG right now if you have hangar/ramp rash. And here I thought the Comanche had bigger sole-source problems for its Jurassic era gear components. I don't own a V-tail, but it's things like this that galvanize my resolve to go EAB or quit dumping hard-earned money into this hobby. Sorry for the de-rail and good luck moving forward with the V-tail. Now back to autopilot nerd potato.

 

[JOhnH]

I just perused BT after writing my original reply. Holy crap brother, I didn't know you guys were actually full stop AOG right now if you have hangar/ramp rash. And here I thought the Comanche had bigger sole-source problems for its Jurassic era gear components. I don't own a V-tail, but it's things like this that galvanize my resolve to go EAB or quit dumping hard-earned money into this hobby. Sorry for the de-rail and good luck moving forward with the V-tail. Now back to autopilot nerd potato.

Yeah. It's a problem. Hopefully, it will be worked out and not cost a fortune. But luckily, my ruddervators appear to be in perfect shape, and I hope to keep them that way. If an accident intervenes, well that is what insurance is for.

 

[Flybuddy]

I wonder if it wasn't just a bad display unit? That's an oddly repeatable failure mode.

But yeah... Totally agree with you on their radio silence. They should at least call or email you to give an update.... Even if it's "nothing concrete yet, still working on it".

I've updated this post as they contacted me and found the issue which turned out to be a too long (and thin) cable to the RSM. They are working on taking care of my unit.

 

[Lynn Dixon]

Flybuddy is this a loaner from Aspen? Or is this the original RSM and display that you purchased?

I thought that the pitot static failure mode was fixed in the E5 to where it used the GPS ground speed if it lost pitot input. Was your GPS doing any thing weird at the time too?

 

[ktup-flyer]

Yeah. It's a problem. Hopefully, it will be worked out and not cost a fortune. But luckily, my ruddervators appear to be in perfect shape, and I hope to keep them that way. If an accident intervenes, well that is what insurance is for.

I hang around Beech guys a lot, and the general consensus is as long as they're treated, baked/Prekoted, and painted correctly, they're solid. If there is any moisture under the paint, you're ****ed.

The 35 fleet is way too big for ruddervator shortage to be a prolonged issue.

 

[Flybuddy]

Flybuddy is this a loaner from Aspen? Or is this the original RSM and display that you purchased?

I thought that the pitot static failure mode was fixed in the E5 to where it used the GPS ground speed if it lost pitot input. Was your GPS doing any thing weird at the time too?

It's the original display but the original RSM proved bad as did 4 others that were tried before they sent an older, used GPS RSM that worked. The E5 is hooked through a new Avidyne 440 which has been functioning flawlessly and was working on both occasions. The big Xs were only there for about a minute on both occasions as it rebooted itself.

 

[Lynn Dixon]

If this is the same display and it's having all these problems, logic seems to be that it's a bad display or wiring issue rather than a bad RSM.... Seeing as how you've swapped 4 rsms so far, and had the same symptoms. Has anyone offered to try swapping the actual display unit?

 

[hindsight2020]

The 35 fleet is way too big for ruddervator shortage to be a prolonged issue.

Wanna bet? I won't further derail the thread on this topic, but hope is not a plan. The rest of the gallery can read the details on BT. V-tail owners are in legitimate non-temporary trouble on a CAPEX basis, and insurance renewals are gonna make them wish they had gone straight tail in about 6 months time. Good luck to all.

 

[Unit74]

Have the shop file an SDR on it. If you were IFR, they would be blood on their hands. If the GPS RSM is working, why the Eff won't Aspen just make it so and be done with it? I rolled by my shop last week and they had an E5 on the bench. I said I'd be curious if they can get it to work. They were like, "huh?" Told them to check out PoA for details. I also told them that if they run into any issues, stop fiddling with it can raise hell at Aspen. If they are sending out product that isn't working, I can see an AD hitting the streets just like the SF50 AoA AD. It's IFR certed (no BU AI required either)and if it's doing this, Aspen better figure it out before someone gets kilt'.

 

[Lynn Dixon]

Well to be fair, there's only been one reported failure here on POA. My unit seems to be fine, should be picking it up in a week or two. I've not seen any other reported failures on Beech talk or any of the other forums. I'd figure if there was a real issue with Aspen sending bad product there would be a big outcry about it.

I'd be more apt to think this display unit or the wiring has an issue. Since it's an isolated case at this point. I don't think we should be getting the pitchforks and lighting the torches just yet.

 

[Flybuddy]

Well to be fair, there's only been one reported failure here on POA. My unit seems to be fine, should be picking it up in a week or two. I've not seen any other reported failures on Beech talk or any of the other forums. I'd figure if there was a real issue with Aspen sending bad product there would be a big outcry about it.

I'd be more apt to think this display unit or the wiring has an issue. Since it's an isolated case at this point. I don't think we should be getting the pitchforks and lighting the torches just yet.

Spoke with an Aspen Tech rep and he said the issue is with the excess length of cabling and signal loss (there is about 12 feet of extra cable looped in rear bulkhead). Also, there was thinner cabling used on some of the initial units. Aspen will pay to have cable shortened and/or replaced as well as new RSM.

 

[Erichh]

With these Aspen issues, does anyone know if integration between the TruTrak Vizion and Garmin G5 is likely to happen? And if so, on what kind of timeline?

 

[Jesse Saint]

They are expecting to have the integration released by Oshkosh, if not sooner. Of course, with all timelines, the FAA is an unknown quantity in this equation.

 

[Lynn Dixon]

With these Aspen issues, does anyone know if integration between the TruTrak Vizion and Garmin G5 is likely to happen? And if so, on what kind of timeline?

Andrew Barker from TruTrak said on the webinar they did with Bendix that they were pushing to have the TruTrak firmware ready to go by mid-May. We are almost at mid-May now, so who knows?

And to give another point of information, My Aspen E5 had zero issues during the install. I am going to pick up the airplane this Friday / Saturday weather depending.

 

[Jesse Saint]

Just finally got my personal 1956 182 in the air with the TruTrak. It’s working perfectly with stock settings. What a great upgrade!

 

[ktup-flyer]

Wanna bet? I won't further derail the thread on this topic, but hope is not a plan. The rest of the gallery can read the details on BT. V-tail owners are in legitimate non-temporary trouble on a CAPEX basis, and insurance renewals are gonna make them wish they had gone straight tail in about 6 months time. Good luck to all.

Cough cough cough. Told you so.