C182 750 miles PART 2..

[SinkorSwim]

First let me thank you for your discussion... I really read each post and considered them...

Next... Help me make a mock flight plan for a C182... 750 miles...

Our trip : St. Louis to Tampa 1H0 to VDF..

1 stop at about half way..

skyvector show just under 6 hours at 130kts..

Would you figure that to be 7 hours with 1 stop.. Would I be better with 2 stops?
(which really isn't bad considering commercial with TSA & nonsense is about the same; meaning total travel time)

Thoughts...

 

[tonycondon]

i'm always a big fan of stopping as little as possible, it adds a lot of time. but you know how well your wife and kids will handle a few 3 hour legs in the plane a lot better than any of us do. It's important that they enjoy the trip otherwise you won't be doing any more.

 

[Jaybird180]

Also, if this is your typical trip, you may want to factor the speed vs fuel burn into the equation before you make your decision. You can calculate cost per trip and decide if the time savings is worth the few extra dollars.

 

[SinkorSwim]

Also, if this is your typical trip, you may want to factor the speed vs fuel burn into the equation before you make your decision. You can calculate cost per trip and decide if the time savings is worth the few extra dollars.

I have done this... and sadly.. SWA is kicking the C182's butt..

My wife agrees that on the average this trip costs us.. $1200 for SWA STL to Tampa... 4 tickets...

One of the local clubs... has C182 for $60 dry.. then figure 10 gal hour burn... (just for round numbers) at $5.50 a gallon 100L. That is $110 per hour.. x 7 hours = 770 then the round trip is 1540 dollars.. vs SWA 1200

Am I think correct?

 

[tonycondon]

that seems within reason to take the 182, to me.

For us taking a 172 to my parents is a no brainer because it at least cuts the travel time in half wrt driving and there is no airline service anywhere near my parents house but the local airport is 4 miles from town.

Taking the 182RG to her parents in Minneapolis is a bit more expensive than airlining it. We've done both. However the convenience of no security etc. and the ability to set our own schedule makes it worth it to us. Plus we can be there in ~3.5 hrs vs a 10 hr drive.

 

[EdFred]

Buy and the trip is cheaper. Owning the plane might be more expensive. But your immediate cost for the trip goes down. I do Michigan to Florida (900miles) and my immediate out of pocket is like $800 round trip, and I can beat the airlines door to door.

 

[SinkorSwim]

Buy and the trip is cheaper. Owning the plane might be more expensive. But your immediate cost for the trip goes down. I do Michigan to Florida (900miles) and my immediate out of pocket is like $800 round trip, and I can beat the airlines door to door.

Agree.. but I have to figure the cost of the airplane, hangar, taxes, Insurance into the flight..

I have set amount of money each month I recieve as a salary. So there has to be a budget right?

 

[tonycondon]

you are approaching aircraft ownership in entirely too responsibly

 

[dell30rb]

do your best to find cheap fuel... some of the local self serv places around here are 4.50 or less. Use 100ll.com or airnav or foreflight...

also since you pay a dry rate you can throttle back a bit and save $$ big time. what does it burn at say 125 knots?

 

[SinkorSwim]

you are approaching aircraft ownership in entirely too responsibly

My wife only gives me so much slack on my leash before she snaps it back..

 

[EdFred]

do your best to find cheap fuel... some of the local self serv places around here are 4.50 or less. Use 100ll.com or airnav or foreflight...

also since you pay a dry rate you can throttle back a bit and save $$ big time. what does it burn at say 125 knots?

That's going to be a curve that's going to need to be graphed. Save on fuel, but increased cost on rental. At $60/hr dry, it might be cheaper to go faster.

 

[AggieMike88]

I have done this... and sadly.. SWA is kicking the C182's butt..

Don't forget to put a dollar figure to your time. What is an hour of you, your wife, and the kids equivalent to?

The tally up time spent with the hassle and wait of commerical flying. Then factor the grief of dealing with TSA, gate agents, FA's, and others who really don't care about providing top service to you.

That SWA ticket will quickly get more expensive on paper than your C182 flight.

Oh, and don't forget to add to the C182 column the benefit of travelling on your own schedule. If you choose to delay an hour or two because you found a nifty shop or restaurant, you have that opportunity.

 

[jesse]

I have done this... and sadly.. SWA is kicking the C182's butt..

My wife agrees that on the average this trip costs us.. $1200 for SWA STL to Tampa... 4 tickets...

One of the local clubs... has C182 for $60 dry.. then figure 10 gal hour burn... (just for round numbers) at $5.50 a gallon 100L. That is $110 per hour.. x 7 hours = 770 then the round trip is 1540 dollars.. vs SWA 1200

Am I think correct?

$340 and I don't have to let my kids get felt up by the TSA? Sold.

 

[Jaybird180]

Comparing costs of GA vs Comm is not a good comparison. That is a left brain calculation for a right brain decision.

 

[EdFred]

Comparing costs of GA vs Comm is not a good comparison. That is a left brain calculation for a right brain decision.

Depends where you are at. I am not at a hub city. I can beat commercial costs often. And I win on time nearly anywhere east of the Rockies.

My buddy lives in Bloomington, IL. 1.5 hour flight in the Comanche. Costs me $140/hr* to run it and that includes EVERYTHING for the year (hangar, insurance, database, mx, etc...) So that's $420 r/t, but the direct cost is only $190. Cheapest flight online right now: $603, and I can ONLY leave at 2:15pm. Oh yeah, and I'm there door to door about 3 hours quicker.

You were saying?

*based on 80 hrs flying last year.

 

[dell30rb]

That's going to be a curve that's going to need to be graphed. Save on fuel, but increased cost on rental. At $60/hr dry, it might be cheaper to go faster.

Good point

He can save approx 2 gph by going 125 knots instead of 135 knots. This is verified by a quick glance at a 182Q POH i found online.

It will take him 6 hours to make the trip at 125 knots = $360 rental
fuel @ 9.7 gph = 58 gal @ 5.25gal = $304

5.55 hours at 135 knots = $333 rental
fuel @ 11.8gph = 66gal @ 5.25gal = $346

Go faster.

 

[Jaybird180]

Depends where you are at. I am not at a hub city. I can beat commercial costs often. And I win on time nearly anywhere east of the Rockies.

My buddy lives in Bloomington, IL. 1.5 hour flight in the Comanche. Costs me $140/hr* to run it and that includes EVERYTHING for the year (hangar, insurance, database, mx, etc...) So that's $420 r/t, but the direct cost is only $190. Cheapest flight online right now: $603, and I can ONLY leave at 2:15pm. Oh yeah, and I'm there door to door about 3 hours quicker.

You were saying?

*based on 80 hrs flying last year.

$11,400 THAT'S data I can appreciate.

 

[EdFred]

$11,400 THAT'S data I can appreciate.

But I also use it for more than one trip, let's say I only used it to go to Bloomington every other weekend.

That's 26 trips @420/trip or $10920.
Those same 26 trips via commercial: $15600
I save about 6-8 hours every trip flying GA.

So I save about $4700 making the trip, and over an entire week of time.

 

[SinkorSwim]

Don't forget to put a dollar figure to your time. What is an hour of you, your wife, and the kids equivalent to?

The tally up time spent with the hassle and wait of commerical flying. Then factor the grief of dealing with TSA, gate agents, FA's, and others who really don't care about providing top service to you.

That SWA ticket will quickly get more expensive on paper than your C182 flight.

Oh, and don't forget to add to the C182 column the benefit of travelling on your own schedule. If you choose to delay an hour or two because you found a nifty shop or restaurant, you have that opportunity.

Actually as far as time goes.. it is about the same.. 30 min longer drive to KSTL then 1H0, 2 hours before flight, 2 hour 15 min flight get luggage and to transport 45 min = 5 1/2 hours with SWA 7 hours with C182

The only good thing,, I save about 150 dollars on parking with C182, because I can just pull into the hangar. So my SWA $1250 vs C182 $1440 now becomes...

SWA $1400 vs C182 $1440

 

[EdFred]

Actually as far as time goes.. it is about the same.. 30 min longer drive to KSTL then 1H0, 2 hours before flight, 2 hour 15 min flight get luggage and to transport 45 min = 5 1/2 hours with SWA 7 hours with C182

The only good thing,, I save about 150 dollars on parking with C182, because I can just pull into the hangar. So my SWA $1250 vs C182 $1440 now becomes...

SWA $1400 vs C182 $1440

You forgot about the smelly fat guy that needs 2 seat belt extenders sitting next to you in 13D.

 

[SinkorSwim]

Don't get me wrong... I know that hobbies are not free... wether it be cars, boats, planes, women They all cost... some more then others..


I hope to start my CFI first week in NOV and all that it requires is the cheapest airplane I can find to rent.. So I might just wait..

I just put together a spreadsheet for all of the rental places in my area and that was a bit shocking...

Might just hold on and look for that C210 club... then I can flight plan for 150kts..

 

[Jim Logajan]

I have done this... and sadly.. SWA is kicking the C182's butt..

My wife agrees that on the average this trip costs us.. $1200 for SWA STL to Tampa... 4 tickets...

One of the local clubs... has C182 for $60 dry.. then figure 10 gal hour burn... (just for round numbers) at $5.50 a gallon 100L. That is $110 per hour.. x 7 hours = 770 then the round trip is 1540 dollars.. vs SWA 1200

Am I think correct?

I'd say no - compare like to like. The SWA tickets are non-refundable once bought. So compare with price of refundable airline tickets, since that equates better to the flexibility in using a club C182. Or compare with ticket price (and availability) for tickets bought one day ahead of time; or at least the number of days you know ahead of time you are certain you'll be making the trip regardless.