C150F N7893F crash near KSQI 7/24/21

PeterNSteinmetz

PeterNSteinmetz

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PeterNSteinmetz
No injuries, Dan Gryder was pilot flying in a go-around when a technical failure forced a landing in a nearby cornfield.

 
Dan Gryder was asked by another pilot to take a flight in his plane. (ACCA rumor mill was that it was a post maintenance test flight)
They came in over the grass field w/ 40 degrees of flaps but didn't want to put it in the grass so they did a low approach.
Dan went to retract the flaps and they did not retract.

The grass field in question is the 400 foot STOL runway.

I was in the air and it happened beneath me.

I heard a radio call that a plane had gone down in a corn field.
I stated I would look and orbit.

I located the crash and guys it looked really bad.
The plane was on its back and the radio got really busy with Chicago center and emergency vehicles and every pilot in the air.

I landed and later, spoke to Dan and he said the flaps wouldn't come up and they were out of runway.
The plane wouldn't climb and was starting to wabble a bit.

They were headed for some houses so Dan opted for the corn field.

They went in and he said the roll over was very gentle.

Dan and his passenger were uninjured. It looked like the plane was totaled.

It was a really sickening feeling to hear everything on the radio and see that plane upside down in the corn field

The show went on but the feeling changed. Hard to explain.
 
I don't know how big the other guy is.
Dan appears to be 5'10 and maybe 200 lbs

Re: takeoff distance, the runway they took off on was 6500 feet.
This was a low approach not a takeoff.

I don't know what the useful load is on that plane.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I don't know how big the other guy is.
Dan appears to be 5'10 and maybe 200 lbs

Re: takeoff distance, the runway they took off on was 6500 feet.
This was a low approach not a takeoff.

I don't know what the useful load is on that plane.
Click to expand...

Other fellow appears about 3” shorter and perhaps 10# less. So that would be 390#.

A 150G has a max gross weight of 1600# and empty of between 975# and 1060#, so useful load without fuel of 540# - 615#. So maybe 75# - 150# for fuel.
 
I flew out of DPA yesterday afternoon in a 172 (with 1 pax) - DA was something nutty (for us) like 3500. The plane definitely felt it.
 
Well, the guy practiced what he preaches, that much can be said.

Glad to see they’re not injured.
 
I teach "normal" landings with partial flaps, and reserve full flaps only when circumstances warrant. Cessna's flaps are very effective, which makes a forward slip an unnecessary maneuver in most cases. Additionally, this is one situation where a 20-deg flap would have resulted in a non-event. I get some flak for doing most landings with 20-deg flaps, but it makes go-arounds easier, and a longer float (which is actually useful for teaching the roundout and flare because it lasts longer). Short field, soft fields and engine out landings of course should be done with full flaps.
 
sarangan said:
I teach "normal" landings with partial flaps, and reserve full flaps only when circumstances warrant. Cessna's flaps are very effective, which makes a forward slip an unnecessary maneuver in most cases. Additionally, this is one situation where a 20-deg flap would have resulted in a non-event. I get some flak for doing most landings with 20-deg flaps, but it makes go-arounds easier, and a longer float (which is actually useful for teaching the roundout and flare because it lasts longer). Short field, soft fields and engine out landings of course should be done with full flaps.
Click to expand...

and a low approach?
 
It's clear the engine overheated because they were running it without the cowling. The overheating engine melted the voltage regulator, causing a short in the alternator, subsequently leading to an over voltage situation that cooked the flap motor. I don't know why y'all can't see that; it's plain as day.
 
Dan did a post mortum. Sounds like the flaps wouldn’t retract.
 
A full-flap go-around in a 150 is a sketchy thing even if you're solo. Those 150 flaps are nearly as big as 172 flaps, and that little O-200 isn't really 100 hp either.

The electric flaps use microswitches for the shutoff at the travel limits, and if the mechanic just spritzes oil all over the jackscrew instead of wiping it on like the service manual says, it drips into the switches and fouls them and gums them up. If the up-limit switch's contacts aren't making contact due to all that stuff, the flaps won't retract. BTDT many times, fixing such stuff.
 
Some folks will do anything to get their face on camera....



But seriously,really glad there were no injuries.
 
Dan Thomas said:
A full-flap go-around in a 150 is a sketchy thing even if you're solo. Those 150 flaps are nearly as big as 172 flaps, and that little O-200 isn't really 100 hp either.
Click to expand...

This. Why would you use full flaps when you intend to do a low pass???
 
Lindberg said:
It's clear the engine overheated because they were running it without the cowling. The overheating engine melted the voltage regulator, causing a short in the alternator, subsequently leading to an over voltage situation that cooked the flap motor. I don't know why y'all can't see that; it's plain as day.
Click to expand...
no, its clear that they did not hose the engine down to cool it the previous flight!
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
This. Why would you use full flaps when you intend to do a low pass???
Click to expand...
In Bryan's video it sounds like he was thinking about trying to land it on the 400' RW, but then thought better of it.
luvflyin said:
Oh. I was figuring this was near OSH. 6PC’s Chicago Center was busy yapping about it threw me. So the Academy Awards thingy takes place at Rock Springs?
Click to expand...
It did this year. It was in Wichita last year.
 
None of this makes any sense.

A 150 cannot climb with full 40 of flaps - that is why in the 152 they limited flaps to 25 degrees. Regardless of DA or how heavily loaded. It's also why I only use 25 of flaps on normal landings - if the flaps fail, a go around is not an option.

400 foot grass strip? A good pilot may get it in there, but there isn't a 150 in the world that could get back out.

Avoidable on so many levels. Sad to see another great old 150 totaled.
 
samiamPA said:
A 150 cannot climb with full 40 of flaps - that is why in the 152 they limited flaps to 25 degrees.
Click to expand...
Flaps are limited to 30deg in a 152. Not to be pedantic, but it’s worth pointing out.
 
Cessna 150 accident from 2016 involving flaps.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/09/ntsb-pilot-did-not-have-flight.html

Examination of the wreckage revealed a fractured flap switch return spring, which prevented the switch from returning to the OFF position. A subsequent laboratory examination confirmed electrical continuity for the flap switch contacts but could not determine when the spring fractured. Postaccident examination of the wreckage revealed that the flap actuator jackscrew was consistent with the flaps in the retracted position. No other evidence of preimpact mechanical malfunctions or failures that could have precluded normal operation was found. A witness stated that he observed the airplane begin its ground roll with the flaps fully extended. However, there were no previously reported issues with the flap system and the postaccident wreckage examination showed that the flaps were in the retracted position at impact; thus, it is possible that the flaps were extended during takeoff and were subsequently retracted before impact.
 
Dan Thomas said:
A full-flap go-around in a 150 is a sketchy thing even if you're solo. Those 150 flaps are nearly as big as 172 flaps, and that little O-200 isn't really 100 hp either.

The electric flaps use microswitches for the shutoff at the travel limits, and if the mechanic just spritzes oil all over the jackscrew instead of wiping it on like the service manual says, it drips into the switches and fouls them and gums them up. If the up-limit switch's contacts aren't making contact due to all that stuff, the flaps won't retract. BTDT many times, fixing such stuff.
Click to expand...
samiamPA said:
None of this makes any sense.

A 150 cannot climb with full 40 of flaps - that is why in the 152 they limited flaps to 25 degrees. Regardless of DA or how heavily loaded. It's also why I only use 25 of flaps on normal landings - if the flaps fail, a go around is not an option.

400 foot grass strip? A good pilot may get it in there, but there isn't a 150 in the world that could get back out.

Avoidable on so many levels. Sad to see another great old 150 totaled.
Click to expand...
It depends on the conditions during the flight. I did a full-flap go-around recently in a C-150 add it climbed out well for me. It wasn't super hot or anything like that. The 152 flap limit is 30°.
 
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I Facetimed with my sis who was on the ramp at KSQI about 11:30 their time yesterday. The temp on the ramp then was 86 and she described the humidity as sauna-like...fwiw.

Jim
 
The 400 foot runway was for the STOL demo. It is parallel to a 6000 ft paved runway
 
Lindberg said:
It's clear the engine overheated because they were running it without the cowling. The overheating engine melted the voltage regulator, causing a short in the alternator, subsequently leading to an over voltage situation that cooked the flap motor. I don't know why y'all can't see that; it's plain as day.
Click to expand...
and caused the Voltmeter to fail making them think they were running out of gas and needed to get down Now
 
I bet the flaps were installed backwards and upside down. I’ll go shoot a video
 
Jim Rosenow said:
I Facetimed with my sis who was on the ramp at KSQI about 11:30 their time yesterday. The temp on the ramp then was 86 and she described the humidity as sauna-like...fwiw.

Jim
Click to expand...
Ideal conditions for a 150 to let you down. All that water vapor in the air displaces oxygen and hurts the power somewhat, with the temperature being a bigger factor. And that little Continental will ice up in a heartbeat even at that temperature with that level of humidity. The carb ice would be long gone by the time any investigators got there.

Airport temp and dewpoint at the time would be nice to know.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Airport temp and dewpoint at the time would be nice to know.
Click to expand...

http://www.aviationwxchartsarchive.com/product/metar

Though it does not sound like the engine stopped making power but rather the flaps would not come up.

Might have been a combination though since I have flown a C150G recently in high DA with 2 people on board and with full flaps it still would fly and climb just a bit at full power.
 
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