Buying an airplane with damage history

gitmo234

gitmo234

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gitmo234
Hello,

I found an older (1959) C-172 that has low time, looks great, well kept and fresh out of annual. I am considering buying it for two reasons:

1) I want the ability to load up one or two other people and fly to a local beach for a weekend as well as other recreational flights

2) I have an incredibly long commute and there's an airport within 5 miles of work, which happens to be in the DC FRZ. Plan is to jump through the necessary hoops and eventually fly to work into the FRZ, like a few other commuters out there. When flown direct it would be about a 30-45 minute flight from wheels up to wheels down.

The aircraft appears to have all the neccessary equipment like a mode-C transponder.

Also, the price is right. Its just above book price according to AOPA but I would offer lower.

I inquired today about damage history and got a reply that it had no corrosion but it has a history of damage repairs, one in 1960 and one in 1997 and the repairs were professionally/well done.

I'm not the kinda guy to just not buy something because it was damaged once, I'm calling to get specifics soon. My question is...what are the downsides of buying something with damage. Would you buy something with damage history? What would you look out for?

Of course, If I buy, a full inspection would be performed.
 
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61076&highlight=deduct+percent

I asked this question in the above thread when I considered buying with damage history. Some say (adamantly it seems) there is no effect on value. Personally I believe the fact that you are asking the question, as I did, is evidence that there is an effect on value. Question is, how much damage was there? Quite a few 172's to choose from...
 
No problem as long as the repairs where done by a reputable shop,properly documented.
 
Properly repaired, correctly documented and many hours flown on the repair in my mind has a very minor effect if any on the value.

Fresh repairs I'd steer clear of if it was anything major. Hangar rash, no. Wing replaced, deal breaker.
 
Unit74 said:
Properly repaired, correctly documented and many hours flown on the repair in my mind has a very minor effect if any on the value.

Fresh repairs I'd steer clear of if it was anything major. Hangar rash, no. Wing replaced, deal breaker.
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For the most part, I was thinking this but others I talked to where immediately concerned with history of damage and got really spooked when I said "maybe".
 
I'd rather have the Warrior 160 over the 172 but then I'm a bit biased having owned a Cherokee 140 for a decade. Despite the PA28 only having one door, I find the front seats more roomy and comfortable and the PA28 makes child's play out of gusty crosswind landings. The low wing also helps you keep the runway in sight when making your turns in the pattern. Just a matter of personal preference here.
 
It depends on what was damaged, how/who repaired it, how it was documented, and how long ago it was. If a prop strike resulted in a tear down inspection, and the engine has been overhauled since then, it is a non-issue. If a main gear collapsed and the left wing was patched back together by Bubba's Bait and Aircraft Repair with nothing but "Wing repaired, aircraft returned to service", I'd be a bit nervous.

A good repair that is documented and has stood the test of time is a non-issue to me personally; however, it might not be a non-issue for someone who wants to buy my plane one day; resale value may be impacted damage history even if it has no impact on the plane. Some folks just won't buy it or demand concessions. With that in mind when searching for my airplane I was willing to forgive one major damage issue provided it had been repaired to my satisfaction; more than one, I was going to negotiate the price.

Just for reference, the Piper you are looking at is not a Warrior; it is a Cherokee 160. Different wing. Still a great plane but worth less than a similarly equipped Warrior.
 
You won't find many 55 year old airplanes that haven't had some major repairs along the line. If the repairs were properly done and documented I wouldn't hold that against the airplane.
 
peerlesscowboy said:
You won't find many 55 year old airplanes that haven't had some major repairs along the line. If the repairs were properly done and documented I wouldn't hold that against the airplane.
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No body dreamed that these old crates would be operational 50 years later. It's the screw ups that were NOT logged or noted that are worrysome. Many log books are fairy tales. I purchased a Cessna 195 that had countless lies written in the latter log books. Cost me a lot of time and money. Be very careful.
 
Banks don't like DH but on a 50 year old plane you gotta expect some mishaps. Financing? If not, then just make sure it was repaired professionally.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Very difficult to trace repairs back. Mechanics signatures purposefully scrawled so they are illegible, (and their number) or they no longer can be found, on and on. Banks will loan you the money if your credit is good but that won't help if serious problems occur AFTER you buy the plane. It's a buyers market, and has been for a long time. I'd be very careful and buy the nicest one I could AFFORD. You may as well, as you'll wind up paying much more in repairs if you buy a suspect.
 
peerlesscowboy said:
You won't find many 55 year old airplanes that haven't had some major repairs along the line. If the repairs were properly done and documented I wouldn't hold that against the airplane.
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Winston Churchill once stated that the word "IF" was the most important word in the English language. I agree. Engine time? Overhauled by....? Airframe time? Ever used as a trainer? Left outside for prolonged periods? On and on. In 50 years all kinds of things happen. Oftentimes unreported. I'm familiar with three aircraft, all Mooneys, each owned by only one or two people, each over 40 years old that never were abused , injured or left out to rot. All were sold for a good price. One has to really search for these types.
 
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My '58 Champ was wrecked at least three times, the first time about 9 months after it came off the factory floor. It flys just fine. I believe that people who worry about the financial implications of purchasing an airplane with damage history have no concept of how financially absurd it is to fly a private airplane a hundred miles on a Sunday morning to get a hamburger.

The documented damage you can at least inspect the repairs of. The undocumented damage, not so much....
 
My airplane broker said it to me this way: there are three things you can never remove from an aircraft: damage history, corrosion, and hours on the airframe.

Those items tend to reduce the pool of willing buyers and the price they might pay. But if you buy the thing at a bargain price then it's all good except that it might sell more slowly.
 
Would you drive a 1959 Chevy truck cross country?
 
CTLSi said:
Would you drive a 1959 Chevy truck cross country?
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ABSOLUTELY, especially if I had taken it down to the last rusty bolt and put it all back together with new hardware, overhauled components, overhauled engine, and all the rest of the stuff gone over with a fine tooth comb.

Just like I'd take my '58 182 anywhere in the country (and Mexico/Canada/Alaska) without even thinking twice about it.

Jim
 
I'd be much more concerned about current condition than something that happened 15+ years ago.:D My 182 had a wing replaced when it was less than a year old, that was in 1978, it flies fine!:D I'd look closely at the repaired areas, but honestly most 1959 airplanes have had a bump or bruise, maybe not documented, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. :rolleyes:
 
CTLSi said:
Would you drive a 1959 Chevy truck cross country?
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If I spent over $1k per year on inspections and maintenance and it got an overhaul or totally brand new engine every so often, and a federal government agency routinely looked issued mandatory maintenance requirements to keep it on the road, absolutely. Actually, any vehicle that got the kind of care, attention and an aircraft gets would run amazing
 
The only thing I really worry about is what the present condition of the physical airplane is, and if the paperwork matches what I see. I've seen good airplanes that look like junk on paper (due to missing logs, damage history, etc) and junk airplanes that look great if you look at the paperwork but not the plane.

Every older has had damage of some sort. Some gets logged and some doesn't. Have you went and actually looked at the plane and/or had a mechanic evaluate it for you? Is it what you want? Pay the price that you think the plane is worth to you, then enjoy it.
 
I will second the idea of getting a good pre-buy. My pre-buy saved me about $23,000.
 
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