Buying a ramp rat, what red flags to check for?

MarkH

MarkH

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MarkH
I’m considering purchasing an all metal/stressed aluminum plane that has been parked on a ramp for a better part of a decade. The airport it is parked at does not have an A&P, so it would have to be disassembled or ferried out on a permit.

What red flags should I look for that could tell me “don’t bother hiring an A&P for the permit, it’s not flying out of here”.

Corrosion is the first thing that comes to mind (both engine and airframe). But I’m sure there are other things I should inspect before the A&P looks at it.
 
Frankly, I wouldn't encourage you to 'inspect' anything in advance of a professional. You'll work up red flags in your head that may not be warranted, and you'll miss almost every real flag.

I once ferried a ramp rat out of a metro airport for a friend. It had sat for a decade or so. Apparently my buddy hadn't heard the advice against allowing the existing maintenance provider to do the pre-buy. It was pencil whipped to high heaven to get it "in annual "

Zero rudder cable tension, almost zero elevator and aileron tensions. Flap rollers corroded and stuck. Flap tracks gouged. Radio and xpdr inop. Beacon inop. Rusty fuel filler collars. Oh, and hornets in the wings!

Ultimately he spent $13k on the purchase, and another $14k fixing all the stuff wrong with it. And it still has almost non-existent paint & interior. Just a bad decision I tried to steer him out of.

Lastly, since I know others will pounce when they wake up and see your post (I just got home from a road call fixing a Hawker): your question will solicit very different answers depending on what airplane you're looking at and I suspect the group might lampoon you for not including that critical detail... Depending on their mood, of course.
 
Sniff test for critters?

They can damage the aircraft several ways.
 
Mark,

I was in a similar situation in 2019. I bought a Cessna 150E that sat for 6 years untouched. I negotiated the price down expecting an engine overhaul might be needed.

Fuel system was gunked up. Mostly the carburetor. We cleaned it on site. Mixture was stuck, be sure not to force it if tight.
Be sure the magnetos are fairly newish. They are expensive!

After thinking I might have made a mistake, it all came together and I've flown 200 hours since then. The previous owner had changed oil the day he parked it and topped the tanks with gas. I think the oil change was most beneficial as we couldn't see any corrosion in the engine. Even under the oil cap. A lot of items were fixed as they came up (gaskets and oil minor oil leaks), after the initial repairs and inspection.

I guess I'm saying it is possible to make it happen but go in with your eyes open.

I spent the purchase price over again on repairs/upgrades. I had estimated 3-5K to get it flying. That was pretty close, then add a TailBeacon ADSB and the magnetos. The paint is still bad and I'm painting the interior plastic with good results. It turned out to be a reliable runner with compressions all around 70. The market went crazy and if I have to replace then engine tomorrow I will still come out ahead.

Best of luck whatever you decide.
 
Craig said:
For me, anything smaller than a Beech 18, it's going home on a trailer no matter what...
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I purchased a project over the summer. It’s a 182 that had been on the ramp 20 years. Speaking to my IA (who has not seen it) we talked about trying to ferry out of there. I decided it was ultimately easier to just put it on the trailer and bring it home. Now that I’ve been torn into it for a couple months I am astonished by what I have found. I don’t think I will ever consider a ferry for something similar again.
 
Really need to know more about what airplane it is before offering a lot of help. Corrosion will obviously be the biggest issue. All the rubber components will need to be replaced, fuel lines/bladders, tires, tubes, carb, fuel pump. Fuel selector will probably need attention. Any gyro's likely want be long for this world. I would plan for having the mags overhauled or replaced. Look over the control cables real good for corrosion. Make sure the tail isn't retaining water. If it is a retract that adds a whole set of additional concerns. If it's a constant speed I would want to have the prop IRAN.
 
I'm looking at 2 similar airplanes. A Luscombe 8e/O-200 and a Cessna 150D. Both have been parked for a while.
 
MarkH said:
But I’m sure there are other things I should inspect before the A&P looks at it.
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Why? Don't quite follow your logic in this. Regardless, the one thing you can do even before looking at the aircraft is to see if you will be able to register it in your name. Especially on aircraft that have been parked for extended periods. Without a clear path to securing its registration the aircraft condition is moot.
 
MarkH said:
I'm looking at 2 similar airplanes. A Luscombe 8e/O-200 and a Cessna 150D. Both have been parked for a while.
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Well that makes the punch list much easier. The Luscombe is prone to spar corrosion. If the wing tips are still riveted on or there are no plugs in the top of the wing where the spar passes through the cockpit, it has not had the spar inspection done. Does the Luscombe still have the drum brakes? If so those will probably need attention. There is usually a reason an affordable plane gets parked. Also check the gear box on the luscombe for repairs and the rear tailcone for corrosion. On the 150, it's a lot of the same. Those are prone to corrosion where the gear mounts to the fuselage. The nose gear and shimmy damper might need overhaul. Above the headliner and bottom sides of the wings are known corrosion area in Cessna's. Check the airbox for cracks, there is a 25 hour AD on those and finding good ones is nearly impossible. Check the fuel selector and lines for leaks and free movement. I purchased a 150C project that had water in the lines that froze and burst them. Run the trim to the stops and check for any binding. Also check the seat rails for corrosion.
 
Domenick said:
When I saw the thread title I thought it was about human trafficking.
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No doubt. Ramp Rat is a person who works at or hangs out at an airport. A Ramp (or hangar) Queen on the other hand is an airplane that has not been flown for quite awhile. I have never heard planes referred to as ramp rats.
 
I've heard Ramp/Hangar Queens referring to nice planes that are always parked, but a ramp rat is a plane that has degraded on the ramp to the point where it is clearly not airworthy.

I have never heard "ramp rat" refer to a person.
 
MarkH said:
I'm looking at 2 similar airplanes. A Luscombe 8e/O-200 and a Cessna 150D. Both have been parked for a while.
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I would absolutely exhaust all possibilities of ferrying to new location before disassembly. Also would not waste time/money on a prebuy. Issues, possibly serious are a given but I assume the price means there are no deal breakers. Is the Luscombe rag wing or metal wing?
 
martym said:
I would absolutely exhaust all possibilities of ferrying to new location before disassembly. Also would not waste time/money on a prebuy. Issues, possibly serious are a given but I assume the price means there are no deal breakers. Is the Luscombe rag wing or metal wing?
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Metal Wing, my initial plan was to use the Ferry Permit inspection as a prebuy. My inspection would be to decide if the plane is worth spending the money on the ferry inspection or should I walk away.
 
MarkH said:
My inspection would be to decide if the plane is worth spending the money on the ferry inspection or should I walk away.
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Ferry flight inspection is just a walkaround, the standard is "safe for flight." Prepping for a ferry flight will be more involved and that will need to be done before requesting a ferry permit.
 
I would like to see you try!
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MarkH said:
my initial plan was to use the Ferry Permit inspection as a prebuy.
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Just to add, the inspection requirement for the SFP is only what the AP signing the logbook thinks needs to be done to fly from Point A to Point B. That inspection does include an AD check however if there is an outstanding AD that does not have a SFP provision in the AD no ferry permit will be issued. As I implied above you are getting yourself out on a limb with this approach.
 
Sadly, I think most of these are less than a bargain than if given away free. But good luck to the OP, i hope he's able to bring one back. Better him than me.
 
Suggest you follow Bells post regarding registration. When a lien is paid off quite
often the Bank does not notify FAA. They get nothing for issuing a Release. Then the years roll by.

My 172 had 5 previous owners and a lien that was 42 years old. Wasn’t easy to register and took a year.

Currently involved with a Luscombe that has the original factory lien outstanding and 2 others. Usually these have been paid off but the the proof is not easy is to find.
 
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SkyDog58 said:
No doubt. Ramp Rat is a person who works at or hangs out at an airport. A Ramp (or hangar) Queen on the other hand is an airplane that has not been flown for quite awhile. I have never heard planes referred to as ramp rats.
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my airplane is named ramp rat. before I started flying for a living I was a ramper for an airline for 11 years.
 
Everything that is made of rubber: tires, hoses, gaskets, carb diaphragms, gascolater valves, ....
 
If you disassemble, the best course of travel is to the closest salvage yard.
 
No big deal to pull wings on a small aircraft. Makes it easier to bring home where it is convenient to work on.

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