Arob16
Pre-takeoff checklist
Others may have already said this…. But your options of finding an airworthy bird at $25K is limited. Maybe find a partner and shoot for $50K bird?
Buying a plane for building hours
- Thread starter Dawson Muth
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RyanShort1
Final Approach
Laughs in 65hp
AlphaPilotFlyer
Pre-takeoff checklist
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AlphaPilotFlyer
If it flies, floats, or f**ks, it cheaper to rent.
If you buy, don’t buy a certified unless something simple and cheap like an Ercoupe, but IFR certified if you plan on the rating. Experimental aircraft are far more cost effective, so consider that. To give you an idea, I put an experimental engine on a C172 and put it in experimental category…..my hourly op cost went from $64 to $19/hour, it’s IFR certified and performs better, as well.
Also, if you buy, find something that doesn’t require AVGAS as it’s about to get more expensive as states require it be replaced with new synthetic gas. My C172 is flex fuel rated, and I simply put cheap car gas in it, and even get an off highway tax rebate. Some legacy engines have a STC allowing for non-ethanol car gas, but it’s not a real big savings over AVGAS.
Good luck.
If you buy, don’t buy a certified unless something simple and cheap like an Ercoupe, but IFR certified if you plan on the rating. Experimental aircraft are far more cost effective, so consider that. To give you an idea, I put an experimental engine on a C172 and put it in experimental category…..my hourly op cost went from $64 to $19/hour, it’s IFR certified and performs better, as well.
Also, if you buy, find something that doesn’t require AVGAS as it’s about to get more expensive as states require it be replaced with new synthetic gas. My C172 is flex fuel rated, and I simply put cheap car gas in it, and even get an off highway tax rebate. Some legacy engines have a STC allowing for non-ethanol car gas, but it’s not a real big savings over AVGAS.
Good luck.
RyanShort1
Final Approach
Except the lower tier. Here's some math, to prove my point.
If you did a cylinder job, (say $3000) an annual for $1000, and a magneto job ($1200 ish for a repair, maybe) and paid $75/mo for a hailshed, and maybe $1200 in insurance, you'd be in about $7300 per year for a Taylorcraft BC-12D, Aeronca Champ or Chief, Piper Cub, Luscombe 8A, or similar. Now, if you only flew it a few hours per year, yes, it is indeed going to cost a LOT to own it, but if you have the money and are dedicated to building hours, things get different.
If you flew 3 hours a week, burning 4 gph and maybe 1 qt a week with a mid-time A-65, you'd probably be looking about $16 per hour for fuel and $3 per hour for oil... so $19 per hour.
52 weeks x 3 hours per week is 156 hours for the year of time building, hardly a fast rate of time building if one had the money. You'd be out roughly $3000 for those 156 hours. Add in the $7300 I estimated for a difficult year, and you'd be looking at $7300 / 156 = $46.80 per hour for the fixed costs. Add that to the $19 / hr to feed the plane and you're looking at approximately $66/hr or roughly HALF the cost of renting a Cessna 172 for 150 hours most places these days.
AlphaPilotFlyer
Pre-takeoff checklist
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What about engine reserves? What about when the vacuum pump or transponder fails? Annual Insp turns up low compression in a single cylinder, or cracked engine mount on a 5O year old plane?
As mentioned, if you must buy, get something cheap to fly, preferably experimental, as components and upgrades are cheaper and you can do a lot more owner maintenance. I’d also suggest finding partners to spread out cost.
As mentioned, if you must buy, get something cheap to fly, preferably experimental, as components and upgrades are cheaper and you can do a lot more owner maintenance. I’d also suggest finding partners to spread out cost.
RyanShort1
Final Approach
That very much depends on what you consider a "reasonable" engine reserve - and most reserves are used for stuff like the cylinder replacement like I included for $3000... if you were flying a 65hp and wanted to average it out, he engine should theoretically go approximately 1800 hours if well treated, and there are still A65s out there for $5-8K. Let's be conservative and say that the engine is already at 300 hours, and you want to replace it at roughly 1800 hours... so, put away roughly $6/hr for engine reserves, OR go ahead and double that at $12/hr and you're still only at $78/hr and you can fly it whenever you want, instead of getting on someone else's scheduler, or not being able to go out on a cross-country overnight without paying extra for keeping the rental plane out too long.
Also, most A65 powered airplanes don't have vacuum pumps or transponders... simple is good sometimes. It all depends on what you HAVE to have for your own personal desires.
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scarpozzi
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SCARPOZZI
I'm in a similar boat. I'm about to start flying again (been putting it off to get finances straight after a last minute trip to Maui that broke the bank).
I recommend starting a fund to use for your first airplane purchase. Consider financing plane rates are 6-8%. I can get unsecured loans for 8% that aren't aviation loans. That should tell you how little banks trust pilots! That's a lot of money to throw away. Save what you can before you finance anything. Also consider financing/refinancing a car you already have for sub 3% with cash out. I've done that in the past to pull $35k cash out of thin air with a 3 year repayment plan @ 1.5% APR.
Once you purchase a plane, you need to figure out how far from overhaul you are and perhaps setup an escrow account. This allows you pay the account monthly to handle those kinds of expenses so you don't get stuck, like so many airplane owners do. It's important to do the research on the plane you buy so you know what you're getting into and know how much money you'll need and most-likely when based on hours.
Consider the money you're paying to rent aircraft paying a premium for taking on "less risk". If a plane you own develops a maintenance issue, you can't fix it yourself. You have to pay a mechanic to fix says the FAA...many of the little things during an annual can add up. Some required parts just aren't cheap due to availability. You may get stuck paying a few thousand dollars just because Textron says so. It wouldn't be unrealistic for those items to be 1-2 months of your take-home pay. All the while you have to pay those fixed costs associated with storage and you won't be accruing the hours required to reach your break even point on what it would have cost you to rent.
My plans are to rent initially. Last year, I started a modest savings account. Starting in January, I'm going to really throw cash at it. My goal is to chuck $1-2k/month into savings just for an airplane purchase. I'm going to be saving for about 3-5 years. You don't have to do the same thing, but I would be most concerned with eating the interest and not having the savings required to cover maintenance.
I recommend starting a fund to use for your first airplane purchase. Consider financing plane rates are 6-8%. I can get unsecured loans for 8% that aren't aviation loans. That should tell you how little banks trust pilots! That's a lot of money to throw away. Save what you can before you finance anything. Also consider financing/refinancing a car you already have for sub 3% with cash out. I've done that in the past to pull $35k cash out of thin air with a 3 year repayment plan @ 1.5% APR.
Once you purchase a plane, you need to figure out how far from overhaul you are and perhaps setup an escrow account. This allows you pay the account monthly to handle those kinds of expenses so you don't get stuck, like so many airplane owners do. It's important to do the research on the plane you buy so you know what you're getting into and know how much money you'll need and most-likely when based on hours.
Consider the money you're paying to rent aircraft paying a premium for taking on "less risk". If a plane you own develops a maintenance issue, you can't fix it yourself. You have to pay a mechanic to fix says the FAA...many of the little things during an annual can add up. Some required parts just aren't cheap due to availability. You may get stuck paying a few thousand dollars just because Textron says so. It wouldn't be unrealistic for those items to be 1-2 months of your take-home pay. All the while you have to pay those fixed costs associated with storage and you won't be accruing the hours required to reach your break even point on what it would have cost you to rent.
My plans are to rent initially. Last year, I started a modest savings account. Starting in January, I'm going to really throw cash at it. My goal is to chuck $1-2k/month into savings just for an airplane purchase. I'm going to be saving for about 3-5 years. You don't have to do the same thing, but I would be most concerned with eating the interest and not having the savings required to cover maintenance.