Buying a Hanger

AKBill

AKBill

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AKBill
So I have been renting a hanger from a neighbor for the last 4 months. I was to move out this weekend and called Norm to touch base. He said the hanger is for sale and he would not be home until next week, and to stay in the hanger till he got home. At that time we can move his C-172 back in the hanger. He has been parked in my tie down since I moved into his hanger. His 1966 C-172 is out of annual and has not been started in 5 years.

It's a "T" hanger, insulated and heated. "T" hangers in my area go from $65,000 to $85,000. The hanger is nice but has some issues. Mold showing on drywall, small roof leaks, and strangely enough water coming up from under the floor in a few spots.

I must say it has been nice having the plane in a hanger. Who does appraisal's on a property like a hanger?

Comments please.
 
Sounds like the hangar is out of annual.

Assess the price of the squawks and offer accordingly... Starting at low end of range.

Curious... What's a t hangar like that rent for?
 
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Skyrys62 said:
Sounds like the hanger is out of annual.

Assess the price of the squawks and offer accordingly... Starting at low end of range.

Curious... What's a t hangar like that rent for?
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I'm paying Norm $400 a month + letting him tie down in my spot $60 a month
 
Consider the availability and contents of the airport’s lease for the land it is on.

I would be very hesitant to go into one that is wicking water through the concrete, it will likely shift (mine heaves with the rains), it will be a corrosion favoring-environment.
 
AKBill said:
Meaning? 65K is 1/4 the price of my house.
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He was just ribbing you about misspelling "hangar". A "hanger" is something you hang things on. A "hangar" is something you store an airplane in. It is a pet peeve among many pilots.
 
Just some thoughts...

If you really think you want it, get a contract with an easy way out...unless you don't feel anyone else is a concern. Then get some repair estimates, and check on lease, etc., as suggested by @Let'sgoflying!

At 5000ish per year, estimate between 15-20 year break even with repairs\maintenance\insurance vs renting at current rate.

If this opportunity goes away, will you be able to rent at all?

If you lost your medical, or quit flying could you rent to others?

You have a place to sleep if you make a certain someone mad.

You can have those wild parties you've always dreamed of.
 
Value is what the market will bear. Appraisals are a tool to determine bank financing. The two often don’t match. I’d ask the hangar neighbors about values and repairs and such. But be careful, lots of guys may be happy to sneak that hangar away from you when they catch wind of one being available. In Anchorage a hangar like that would sell for cash in just a few minutes, probably for a considerably higher price. A guy interested in it would want to close the deal immediately before another interested guy comes along and bids the price up.
 
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Figure out CAP rates in the area for other airport or commercial property. We’ll guess 10 for lack of a number for now (10 = 10%).

At $400 a month, that’s $4,800/yr gross income. Subtract expenses like taxes, and that’s the owner’s net income. For now just figure $500/yr taxes.

Net income would be $4,300. Divide it by the cap rate (0.10). So the appraised value on an income approach would be $43k in this example.

There’s also replacement value you could use (land value and construction cost). You might have other comps too, like you said $65-85k.

Still doesn’t answer your question though, sorry, but I’m sitting in a duck blind in Mora AR this morning with zero visibility, bored silly, using POA for entertainment.
 
Bill,

You must have an idea of what the demand for hangars is. If your friend posted a hangar for sale sign at the gas pump how long do you think it would last?
 
Read the hangar docs. Who pays for the roof repair, door maintenance, etc.
I'm the president of a hangar association, feel free to PM any questions too

If he said the hangar is for sale, did you ask for the price? Annual dues? Lease?
 
Folks,, remember Bill is at Juneau there isn't any other airports near to compare to.. Bill must look at the ramp and see how many aircraft want that hangar.
I'm surprised he can get one that cheap.
 
Stewartb said:
Bill,

You must have an idea of what the demand for hangars is. If your friend posted a hangar for sale sign at the gas pump how long do you think it would last?
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Well the fellow that has the hanger next to his is interested. I gave him Norms number and they have talked. I don't think the hanger would last long. My concern is repairs. I feel all the insulation and 1 wall this is dry walled will need to removed. The roof and floor repairs are another concern.

Badger said:
Read the hangar docs. Who pays for the roof repair, door maintenance, etc.
I'm the president of a hangar association, feel free to PM any questions too

If he said the hangar is for sale, did you ask for the price? Annual dues? Lease?
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Thanks, I may PM you. As you pointed out lots of questions need answered.
 
Most "owned" hangars are sitting on land still owned by the county or state, with a 30 years lease. Those leases can be extended (typically another10 years) but eventually you turn the keys over and don't own anything.

As much as renting my hangar feels like burning cash the math says if I build a hangar on leased ground and pay for it for 30 years it's a wash. "Buy" one that's 20 years old then you're looking at a depreciated asset.

As a renter, roof leaks and a jacked up door are all someone else's problem. Until I can find land I own I'm not building.

If the hangar you're looking at is in a condo association then understand those go as smoothly (or not) as airplane partnerships.
 
Unless this is a climate/humidity conditioned hangar space, I'm not a big fan of drywall.
 
Juneau is a state owned airport. The structure would be on leased land. I'd want to know the details of the lease, environmental restrictions, etc. Due dligence prior to buying it would include a survey of site contamination. If you want to see how fast money can leave your accounts? Be a responsible party for environmental remediation. The other repairs would be simple enough. A blue tarp fror the roof and some Kilz for the walls. ;)
 
You can buy an assortment of hangers at Walmart for about $2.

:)
 
Stewartb said:
Juneau is a state owned airport. The structure would be on leased land. I'd want to know the details of the lease, environmental restrictions, etc. Due dligence prior to buying it would include a survey of site contamination. If you want to see how fast money can leave your accounts? Be a responsible party for environmental remediation. The other repairs would be simple enough. A blue tarp fror the roof and some Kilz for the walls. ;)
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It's been working for your buddy for how long, How bad can it be.
To me this situation is like over scrutinizing a good deal, until some one else buys it. then having missed deal remorse.
think, how often does a hangar at Juneau become available ?
You've been waiting for a hangar for how long?
Grab it while you can.
You'll find the airport will have grant assurances just like many do. State and county fire codes will apply.
 
Tom-D said:
It's been working for your buddy for how long, How bad can it be.
To me this situation is like over scrutinizing a good deal, until some one else buys it. then having missed deal remorse.
think, how often does a hangar at Juneau become available ?
You've been waiting for a hangar for how long?
Grab it while you can.
You'll find the airport will have grant assurances just like many do. State and county fire codes will apply.
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Thanks for the replies Tom. It's all good. If he is willing to part with the 172 and the hanger I'm in. That would give me a bit of wiggle room. Top end on the 172, sell it and move on.
 
AKBill said:
Thanks for the replies Tom. It's all good. If he is willing to part with the 172 and the hanger I'm in. That would give me a bit of wiggle room. Top end on the 172, sell it and move on.
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5 years? spray those cylinders with WD 40 let it set a couple hours start it, it'll ferry out
ok. Let me know what you want for it as is.
 
How long is the lease on the land good for? Check to make sure the airport commission has no plans to condem the hangars.
 
frfly172 said:
How long is the lease on the land good for? Check to make sure the airport commission has no plans to condem the hangars.
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It will be an open ended lease, as long as the rent is paid you are good to go.

Alaska rules on state airports.

You own the structure, rent the land.
 
Tom-D said:
You doing realize that's about 7 grand now plus labor, and any thing else you find.
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My labor cost is my time. I could remove the cylinders, grind valves and seats if needed, hone cylinders, replace rings for at a reasonable cost.
 
I guess thee is another option. Fix his plane so he can fly at my labor and his cash for parts to reduce the price of the hangar. He gets his plane fixed and I get a reduced price for the hangar
 
Tom-D said:
It will be an open ended lease, as long as the rent is paid you are good to go.

Alaska rules on state airports.

You own the structure, rent the land.
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Granted I don't know if its different in Alaska, but most airports won't do open ended leases. The FAA considers that exclusive use and doesn't like that. Plus most states don't allow governments to enter into open ended leases, there is usually a cap. Around here it is 99 years, which for most purposes is open ended, unless it was signed 95 years ago.
 
Stewartb said:
Juneau is a state owned airport. The structure would be on leased land. I'd want to know the details of the lease, environmental restrictions, etc. Due dligence prior to buying it would include a survey of site contamination. If you want to see how fast money can leave your accounts? Be a responsible party for environmental remediation. The other repairs would be simple enough. A blue tarp fror the roof and some Kilz for the walls. ;)
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Juneau airport is owned by the city of Juneau. They do get lots of State and Federal monies though.

@AKBill. Talk to Patty Wahto. She is the airport manager. Her office is upstairs in the terminal building. She is the one to answer all your questions re: hangar ownership, leases, repairs and such. Scott Rinkenberger is the one to talk to about snowplowing, asphalt repair and that stuff. See you this Summer.
 
Is this on deeded land (rare) or is there a pad lease that this is subject to ?

65k is a steal with 29 years on a 30 year lease. 65k is a rip-off if you are a year from the airport stealing your hangar.

Beware of the 'they have always extended the land lease' trap. It works until the new airport board chairman decides that it is more beneficial for him to take your hangar. If this lease is already some years in, see if you can get a new one issued even if the old one still has some years on it. Better pay 5c more per sf but have the perspective of 10 year ownership than 'save' a couple of $$ and get kicked out in half that time.

You say it's a 'T'. Is there a condo association ? Is there a city property tax ? Condo association insurance ? I know, silly, but even in AK the lawyers will take their cut.
 
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https://www.airnav.com/airport/PAJN

Airport Ownership and Management from official FAA records
Ownership: Publicly-owned
Owner: CITY OF JUNEAU
155 S SEWARD
JUNEAU, AK 99801
Phone 907-789-7821
Manager: PATTY WAHTO
1873 SHELL SIMMONS DR, SUITE 200
JUNEAU, AK 99801
Phone 907-789-7821
 
Htaylor said:
Juneau airport is owned by the city of Juneau. They do get lots of State and Federal monies though.

@AKBill. Talk to Patty Wahto. She is the airport manager. Her office is upstairs in the terminal building. She is the one to answer all your questions re: hangar ownership, leases, repairs and such. Scott Rinkenberger is the one to talk to about snowplowing, asphalt repair and that stuff. See you this Summer.
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Thanks for the info, I've talked to both Pat and Scott over the years. Look me up this summer and we'll burn some ribs on the grill..:rolleyes:
 
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