Buying a cheap plane for training

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robhaynes

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I've been thinking about buying a cheap 2 seater plane with IFR capability to get my PP/IFR licenses and building hours toward commercial and CFI. Something like a Cessna 150 or 152. The spreadsheet I've built includes regular maintenance certifications. I know there is a risk that something expensive might break. I'm interested to hear the experiences from people who have gone this route. There is a local flight club that can give me wet hours for $91 in a 172 which is probably pretty good. What do you think?
 
Thats just what we did and it worked great. We bought a c-150, used it for ppl training, put 200 hours on it in a couple years, then sold it for what we paid for it.

I had a business partner who was a cfi. I worked a deal with him to do the training for free in trade for free use of the c-150 whenever he wanted. That deal worked well for both of us.

Insurance was around $600 annually so long as we limited to 4 named insured. We encountered no major repairs.
 
Today’s cheap is sticker shock to pre-inflation prices, and the general uncertainty would make me nervous at a big investment, but generally speaking, if you can afford to buy a plane AND feed it for the hours you need, it’s a good way to do it.
 
Really, without seeing your spreadsheet, it’s difficult to say. And we’ve no idea where you live. In the flatlands a 152 is fine. If you live un the rockies, a 172 is barely adequate during the summer.
 
It's a roll of the dice.

Two young guys did what you're describing at my airport this past year with C-150s. One hasn't flown in 8 months after corrosion was discovered during the annual. The other didn't fly for several months due to expensive maintenance. Neither one had the financial resources to quickly address the problems. My impression was they weren't savvy buyers, but both had "pre-buys" and thought they had done their due diligence.

Cheap is a relative term. But if it's cheap compared to other C-150/152s, then tread carefully.

You know the old saying, "if it flies, floats, or f*@%s, it's cheaper to rent than buy" I think that's a truism.
 
robhaynes said:
I've been thinking about buying a cheap 2 seater plane with IFR capability to get my PP/IFR licenses and building hours toward commercial and CFI. Something like a Cessna 150 or 152. The spreadsheet I've built includes regular maintenance certifications. I know there is a risk that something expensive might break. I'm interested to hear the experiences from people who have gone this route. There is a local flight club that can give me wet hours for $91 in a 172 which is probably pretty good. What do you think?
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My opinion is the C-150/152 are poor instrument trainers. They are my favorite airplanes and IFR is my favorite form of flying. The 150/152 bob around like a cork in the ocean compared to the 172. When panels were all steam gauge, it barely had the minimum space for instruments. Maybe that's changed with modern avionics. Granted, if you learnt to ride a unicycle first, riding a bicycle will seem much easier, so that could be an advantage of the 150/152. Prices have been inflating for a long time and I've been expecting a great depression economic slump for the last 3 years. If you can buy and then sell before the downturn it's a reasonable plan. The 150/152 are pretty light on maintenance.
 
Plane ownership is its own skill and should probably have its own checkride. Buying a plane without a fund of knowledge or access to mentors and experts would be like taking that checkride cold with zero training.

With that in mind, unless "plane owner" is a certification you're working towards, it's probably not a great idea "just to get ratings"

If you're getting ratings to ultimately buy and own a plane, though, there's some sense to it. The wounds you will suffer in maintaining a 150/152 will be less than a typical owner plane like a 182/Bo/Whatever you have your heart set on. :) It may not necessarily be cheaper overall than just renting for your ratings, so you need to also value the lessons in maintaining brittle aircraft built in the Carter era, which is what a lot of us fly.

$0.02
 
What may be missing on the spreadsheet is availability. There are 4
CFI
Weather
Aircraft
Student

Owning an airplane, assuming no major maintenance issues (as pointed out in the many replies here) mitigates 2 of the 4 items on scheduling. Doesn't matter how cheap renting is, if the rentals are always booked, there's no benefit.
 
I would want something with more payload and endurance than a 2-seat aircraft for IFR training. I owned an AA-1A as a VFR time builder, but bought an AA-5 for IFR training and regional travel, and equipped it with up to date (at the time) avionics to fly and train in IMC. I'm still flying the same plane (with updated avionics) today decades later. But I don't think you will save any money by owning. What you get is availability for the cost.
 
This is the most recent plane I know that was purchased for an Instrument rating.

During the flight back to Oregon, it had a cylinder go bad, so 1st thing they did was put a new cylinder on it, Once back he sprang for the G-275 and G-175. Then couldn’t find an instructor small enough to do his training in it, so he still ended up renting a C-172 to do his instrument rating in. At least I am reasonably sure this is the same airplane.

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$91/hr wet is pretty darn hard to beat.

In part, this decision depends on what your post IR cert goals are.
 
For the wet rate you quoted for a 172 it's a no brainier to rent. My wife had a 150 and it was cheap to own with the main cost being hangar rent. We owned it about 12 years and got double what we paid for it due to inflated COVID prices. No maintenance I couldn't handle myself with an understanding A&P. Prices for 150's are crazy high right now and the 172 you can rent is a screaming good deal. The 172 is a better IFR trainer and more comfortable. My wife and I are both fairly thin so I never minded sitting side by side with her in the 150 but it would be too cozy for me next to what passes for the "average" size for a CFI these days. Plus I'm not getting any thinner myself.
 
That hourly rate is dirt cheap. Definitely rent if that's legit and you can consistently rent it with a CFI when you want to fly. I would say $191 is a more accurate current going rate for a 172 hourly rate (wet).

I like what Murphey said above. You need: Plane, CFI, weather, student. You are the student. Check one item.

Weather you cannot control. You still need a CFI.

If you buy your own plane, you solve the PLANE part of the equation. If it is working. And not in annual. And not getting an AD done. And nothing is broken. And it passes preflight inspection and run-up.

I bought my plane last year. I taught my son how to fly. He did great...I did great...he passed with flying colors. But it would be impossible for me to say I saved any money. Ownership was the only way I could have the (very rewarding) experience of flying with him and having this cool father/son bond through me teaching him my profession.

My first annual was just shy of 5 Grand...I needed a strut rebuilt...and all new brakes. That's not an uncommon cost on a first annual...especially since we flew it 60 or 70 hours since we bought it with a lot of touch and go's and braking.

I've had a few "returns to hangar" since I bought my plane. Working out first year kinks on a plane that wasn't flown much recently. Fuel cap seals allowing rain water in. Struts leaking. Tach failing during run-up. Turns out the tach signal pickup mount bracket was loose. Comm radio failing. Attitude indicator failing enroute. Environmental control cable getting bent and no heat. Rack up the dollar signs every time sometthing breaks. A good rule of thumb is to guess what you think something should cost...then add a zero to the end, LOL.

My annual was brutally slow which causes a lot of stress. It went into annual at the end of March 2023; I got it back on July 4, 2023. Three months.

It is now getting an AD done; I need two inspection panels which have not arrived yet to have my A&P button it up...It's been there over a month now due to parts issues.

I knew the 3 F's rule...so why did I buy? Because I could not solve the PLANE part of the equation consistently. Weather I still cannot control...and the student part--well...that was a challenge because my son and I had to have schedules that matched. He was a Senior in high school. We joined a flying club that was only charging $140/hour at the time (wet) for a 172. Sweet...check the plane box .. I got checked out as a CFI there...but to get our schedules aligned...with good weather...AND have a plane available in the club...that became almost impossible. (As a side-note, I got an email this morning (1/1/2024) that the same club is now charging $195/hour wet...and instructor is $50/hour on top of that).

So in my case, ownership made sense to accomplish the objective, but it has not been cheap. Parts for my AD are over $5600 not including labor.

Also, bear in mind you can have an engine destroy itself ($25,000-$40,000 for a piston single), have corrosion, etc. if a good pre-buy isn't donel...all sorts of horrible and costly things can happen when you own a plane. My mechanic has two planes in his shop right now that have had engine issues requiring overhaul/replacement on piston singles...one is a 150 and one is a Citabria.

I have learned a LOT about plane ownership. I will say that if you can consistently rent at a good rate with good plane availablility, there is a strong chance that will be cheaper than owning your own plane in hindsight.

If simply looking to build time and sell, then ownership or a partnership could ber a good idea, but you will only come out ahead financially if you have zero major issues. It only takes on engine problem or one avionics problem to wreck your spreadsheet. A new Garmin GPS starts at around $6000 (uninstalled)...a good GPS/NAV/COMM is $13,000 uninstalled...even a simple NAV/COMM is $3-4 grand (uninstalled). If you want some GI-275's, a simple modern Nav Comm and a nice GPS for an avionics upgrade...plan on $35,000-$40,000 between equipment and labor...and waiting up to a year and a half to find an A&P who has time to install it all unlesss you go to a BIG shop like Sarasota...then add another $10-$15,000 to that quote.

There is a certain exciting factor knowing I have my very own plane 18 minutes away from my house...that I can fly whenever I want (when it is not being worked on)...but it is also stressful knowing what a money pit it is.

That's my .02.
 
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I have always felt that ownership is too much distraction while learning to fly.
I rented while learning to fly. The flight school always had a plane and instructor ready for my appointment time, the only variable was the weather.

When I did my instrument training I started out in a rental and finished in a plane I bought. There was way more stress for me making sure my plane was ready. No way I could have done both when I learning to fly.
 
schmookeeg said:
Plane ownership is its own skill and should probably have its own checkride. Buying a plane without a fund of knowledge or access to mentors and experts would be like taking that checkride cold with zero training.

With that in mind, unless "plane owner" is a certification you're working towards, it's probably not a great idea "just to get ratings"

If you're getting ratings to ultimately buy and own a plane, though, there's some sense to it. The wounds you will suffer in maintaining a 150/152 will be less than a typical owner plane like a 182/Bo/Whatever you have your heart set on. :) It may not necessarily be cheaper overall than just renting for your ratings, so you need to also value the lessons in maintaining brittle aircraft built in the Carter era, which is what a lot of us fly.

$0.02
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Totally agree with Schmookeeg.
And there no cheap planes anymore that are worth buying to train in and not have to restore while your trying to train in. Let the school worry about the plane. If you do buy one, get a expensive one because it probably was better taken care of.
 
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I'd wonder what kind of maintenance/safety issues a $91 hr plane might have.
Definitely pay attention if you rent from them.
Hopefully it's just a good deal, but wow, that's cheap.
 
Gary Ward said:
Totally agree with Schmookeeg.
And there no cheap planes anymore that are worth buying to train in and not restore while your trying to train in. Let the school worry about the plane.
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Sure there are, you just can't reliably expect to find them, especially in a reasonable amount of time, and if you do find one, you'd better have the cash on hand ready to pounce.
 
I would urge you to strongly consider renting and get the PP first. By then you will know more about the realities of GA capabilities and airplane maintenance and ownership. (Right now, you may not know what you don't know.) THEN, if aircraft availability is really a critical factor for IFR training, you will know more about seeking out and acquiring an appropriate instrument training aircraft or airplane to own and fly. I didn't know squat about aircraft ownership until I earned my PPL. And I knew a lot more about ownership after putting on 400 hours and a lot of supervised maintenance on my first plane.

Owning is not usually cheaper than renting. Owning is all about availability and known maintenance history.
 
$91/hr wet is a good deal. Give that a shot. Reasons to not use that cheap plane is if the plane is always broke, booked up when you need it, or you see that the maintenance is shady. Before joining the club, look at the financials, calendar of flying history, go for a flight with a member, and aircraft and engine logs. Talk to any mechanics familiar with the plane. It will be a good introduction to being familiar with all that process before buying a plane on your own.
 
Another reason to rent is the wear and tear most trainers go through. I beat a 172 up pretty good learning to land. I saw a 172 get a new lower firewall put in it while I was there.
I am glad I didn’t do that to the 172 I fly now.
 
Generally speaking, “cheap” and “plane” go together like “jalapeño” and “cheesecake.”

There are exceptions, but....
RyanShort1 said:
you just can't reliably expect to find them, especially in a reasonable amount of time, and if you do find one, you'd better have the cash on hand ready to pounce.
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My Musketeer was a bargain, IMHO, and so far it’s had no horrifying maintenance issues, but I shopped for a long time to find it (well over a year), I had the cash on hand, I didn’t waste time quibbling over the price, and I moved quickly.
 
Gary Ward said:
Another reason to rent is the wear and tear most trainers go through. I beat a 172 up pretty good learning to land. I saw a 172 get a new lower firewall put in it while I was there.
I am glad I didn’t do that to the 172 I fly now.
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the lower firewall isn’t “wear and tear,” it’s “damage.” Usually due to hitting the nosewheel first on landing.
 
I am sure you have gotten the message by now - $91/hr wet is below operating costs. I am curious if they have monthly dues that are offsetting that cost or a large initiation fee. Somehow the cost has to be subsidized. I have been managing our 172 for over 20 years and write every check for maintenance. That price is a great deal. Not only is it less than Operating costs, you don’t have to deal with the hassle every time something breaks. Maintenance is time consuming even if you are not the one turning the wrenches. If it is your plane you will be spending dealing with maintenance (and paying for it). If you go with the club you can concentrate on flying.
 
Walboy said:
It's a roll of the dice.

Two young guys did what you're describing at my airport this past year with C-150s. One hasn't flown in 8 months after corrosion was discovered during the annual. The other didn't fly for several months due to expensive maintenance....
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^This. I was looking into doing the same thing until I heard a similar thing happen to a couple different student pilots. It works on paper to buy as long as nothing goes wrong. Figure the money "lost" to rental is worth it during training to avoid down time; it's more cost-effective to just pick a different rental than to pay for your own plane AND have to use a rental if yours is on a repair delay.
 
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