Buy Your Last Plane First

Somedudeintn

Somedudeintn

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somedudeintn
So I was thinking the other day, "Man it would be nice to have my own plane!" I browsed through a few ads and figured I could buy a Cessna 152 for about 15k and I would have my own plane. Sure I'd have to pay for a tiedown, insurance, and maintenance, and gas, but its more fun to just ignore those and think about having a plane I can fly whenever I want for 15k.

Then I started thinking some more and I realized that two seats are no fun, I need four seats. Nearly everyone else that has a plane has four seats, and even if I can't put any people back there I should have four seats. All these people have to know something I don't. Cherokee 140 it is! I can get one of those for an extra 10k! The 152 would have been $7500/seat, but a $25k 140 is only $6250/ seat. I'm saving money already!

Then I started thinking about how flying a slow plane into a strong headwind isn't much fun if you want to go anywhere. I've really enjoyed slow flight into a strong headwind, but I need to go places so I need a faster plane. M20C it is! I can get a decent one for an extra 15k and now I can really go places. I can even put some skinny legged short people in the back seat! This is great, so much better than a 152. I don't know what I was thinking before.

After I thought about it a bit more I realized that the short bodied Mooney won't cut it either, I might get sued for discrimination if I can only put small people in the back seat. An extra 20k and I can get a M20F. I would have spent more than that in lawyer fees when I got sued with my C so I'm still saving money!

And finally I realized that I need to go a bit faster, 201mph sounds pretty good so I'll fork over the extra 40k and pick up a M20J.

Seriously though whenever I think about buying a 15k 152 that I actually could afford I end up reasoning up to a ~100k M20J that I'll have to keep saving for. Looks like I'll keep renting for the next few years!

Just for kicks I'm though, for someone who is a new father and will likely end up with a family of 4, what "last plane" would you recommend? I likely wouldn't travel further than 400nm on a trip (in-laws are 360nm away and my fam is ~300nm). Ownership is still a ways off for me, but I love to dream!
 
Best advice I received when purchasing my first aircraft:

"If you're looking to buy your first aircraft, go ahead and buy your second aircraft"

Sure enough, it was right. I initially started looking at C150/152 aircraft as that suited my immediate need/want. I'm glad I ended up purchasing a C172 though since it gave me a little growing room. When I bought my next aircraft, I tried to follow the same advice, but also gave thought to what my expected mission would be.
 
My first/second aircraft is a PA-28-235, and I haven't outgrown it yet... It's always nice to go faster, but it's also nice to carry a lot of stuff, and this has been a great middle ground between those things and the budget limits so far...
 
I think we've all gone through a similar mental progression. You gotta make the decison for yourself. In a perfect world, we'd all have 3 planes: a slow tail dragger for goofing around, a speedy plane with low fuel burn for 1 or 2 people, and a heavy hauler.

depending on budget, a 182 would get you a long way as a family hauler. A Cherokee 6 would definitely get you and 3 grown adults wherever you need. Then there are the retracts....
 
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I bought my first and last airplane. I bought a $40k Cessna Cardinal. I took the back seat out for insurance savings so it is a two seater right now. It has a low stance so my wife has no problem getting in. It is 150hp so I use mogas. I flew from AL to OSH this summer and it held all my camping gear. I get 6.8g/hr LOP and about 115 knots. As with most other planes, I have to put in ADS-B. I'm also considering adding a PowerFlow before I make my post-retirement around-the-states flight in 2017.
 
Its not the cost of the plane, its the cost of running that is high. If you buy a plane for 50k and sell it for 40k, then the cost of buying it is 10k. If you put 500 hours on it and its hourly fuel, maintenance and fixed costs of insurance and annual is 100 an hour, that is 50k, to run it. Five times as much.

Also, the smaller the plane, the more fun it is. At least for some of us. If you fly by yourself or just with one other person a two seater can work just fine. Speed? That's mostly hype. After all, you WANT to fly, right?

The other thing is, there is no LAST plane. As soon as you buy a plane you imagine selling it and buying a different one. Just the way it is. Planes are fun, but like life, they never FULLY satisfy.

Good luck with whatever you do!
 
Hopefully I will never know which aircraft is the last,like to change aircraft ,as the mission changes.
 
I have just purchased a C150L after going through some of the same thought process. The C150 fit the bill for myself and daughter to get our PPL in and build some time. After that I plan to sell the 150 and put that money down on a "go somewhere" plane.

$100k will never be in my budget but a $50k should be within 4 years. So putting money down on 50k would be no different than purchasing an average car.

The longer I lurk and read this forum the more I realize I am broke. Wish I'd studied harder in school instead of chasing those women.

Hard for me to fathom just how rich "rich" really is.
 
You can't save forever. Your flying ends at X. What if your ability to fly(or life) ends before you get to 'second' plane? Let's say you buy a C-152 this month, in three years you'll have three years of adventuring filed in the old brain box. Yes it was at 90 knots, so what, it will take a really really fast plane to make up the miles of three years of flying at 90 knots, plus you can never make up the time at destination. Forward time orientation is great, heck it built Western civilization, but it has drawbacks on the individual level. Call it life balance or call it YOLO ******* but do it now.
 
It is all about choices. Live in a smaller house, buy used cars and learn how to keep up both. Pack your lunch and buy your coffee (if you must) from McD's. Yes, getting a good education and working your tail off helps. But then those are choices too.
 
Greenhead said:
I have just purchased a C150L after going through some of the same thought process. The C150 fit the bill for myself and daughter to get our PPL in and build some time. After that I plan to sell the 150 and put that money down on a "go somewhere" plane.

$100k will never be in my budget but a $50k should be within 4 years. So putting money down on 50k would be no different than purchasing an average car.

The longer I lurk and read this forum the more I realize I am broke. Wish I'd studied harder in school instead of chasing those women.

Hard for me to fathom just how rich "rich" really is.
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In reality 100k is far out of my reach for the foreseeable future too! Until I get that big inheritance from that long lost relative I don't know about... I could see spending 50k in another 5 years or so, with that budget right now I'd probably go for a M20F, but I'm sure my requirements will change in another 5 years too! It'd be even better to find a good partnership to split the costs which would open up some more useful planes, but that opens up another set of issues.
 
Long/wide body Mooney, Comanche, early Bonanza. Any will be good.

I bought my Aztec first at 225 total time. I'm now flying the 310. The reasons for the 310 are unique, though, otherwise we'd still have the Aztec. While we now have 3 kids (lesson for those intending on 2 kids - surprise! :)), the 310 should still do the job and has a good shot at being a "last plane" barring some catastrophic structural issue or a gear problem.
 
Greenhead said:
I have just purchased a C150L after going through some of the same thought process. The C150 fit the bill for myself and daughter to get our PPL in and build some time. After that I plan to sell the 150 and put that money down on a "go somewhere" plane.

$100k will never be in my budget but a $50k should be within 4 years. So putting money down on 50k would be no different than purchasing an average car.

The longer I lurk and read this forum the more I realize I am broke. Wish I'd studied harder in school instead of chasing those women.

Hard for me to fathom just how rich "rich" really is.
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Yup....I did the same.

Three planes later and I might be done.

The C-150L I had was the perfect starter for me. It was fairly reasonable to maintain and taught me a few lessons in ownership.....that spared me lots of $$$ would it been a complex aircraft.

So, to each his own. Sometimes you do have to walk before you can run....unless you have the bling, cause a complex aircraft is not in the same $$$$ league as a C-150 or C-172. :no:
 
I've been dreaming of ownership since I was 17 which was when I first soloed in a c150... (year 1972) Now, Recently divorced and my money now untouched by leeching human hands, I began to seriously consider it... But after finding an excellent club with an nice skyhawk and relatively light use among the members, I find myself in a really good position of having a hangared airplane in great condtion and, so far, always available when I want it. Can't imagine being an owner would be much better (except for the bragging rights) and at only a fraction of the cost!
 
ClimbnSink said:
You can't save forever. Your flying ends at X. What if your ability to fly(or life) ends before you get to 'second' plane? Let's say you buy a C-152 this month, in three years you'll have three years of adventuring filed in the old brain box. Yes it was at 90 knots, so what, it will take a really really fast plane to make up the miles of three years of flying at 90 knots, plus you can never make up the time at destination. Forward time orientation is great, heck it built Western civilization, but it has drawbacks on the individual level. Call it life balance or call it YOLO ******* but do it now.
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This.

The more I am around pilots and aviation, the more it rings true. Just do it.
 
Somedudeintn said:
Great perspective I have not heard before!
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:yes:

Greg's advice rang a bell in my head. I'm an imperfect perfectionist, and I've found that this tends to hold me back a lot. Many times I won't start something, especially if it's complicated, until I think I can do it perfectly. When I signed up for flying lessons last year it was in spite of my perfectionist tendencies. I realized that I would never take the first step if I waited until I could make that step perfectly.

Just do it. :yesnod:
 
If you can't afford it you can't afford it. I'd love to have a Columbia 350, but it ain't gonna happen in my income range and my requirement not to finance toys, so I fly an Arrow while things get better. If they don't, well at least I had an Arrow, you know what I mean?

If I had waited until I had Arrow money I wouldn't have had the Warrior II I owned before, which allowed me to date my now wife for a year and a half long distance (416NM non-stops on a Warrior, every other weekend, 265 hours in one year..yeah buddy). I lost money selling it, just like I lost money selling the C-150 that I owned before it. But I don't regret having had single ownership access to an airplane for all these years. That would have all been a pipe dream if I were to take the attitude of buying my last airplane first. So, no, just buy what you can afford, if it doesn't meet your mission, then don't buy anything at all and get on the business of finding a better paying job.

Good luck to ya.
 
Lol, that's pretty much how I figure the normal progression is that most pilots go through with aircraft ownership. I wouldn't have considered less than a 7KCAB for a first 2-seat aircraft for putting around in, but ideally I'd want to be able to fill 4 seats with a decent cruise. So then it goes to the $50K 182/Comanche . . .add $15K to go to an early Bo, Commander 112, or Arrow . . . add $15K to get to a nice Cherokee Six or 35-series Bo . . . etc.

Like was mentioned, if money is no option we'd all have 3 birds or more in the hangar. The taildragger bush or acro, the nice speedy XC machine, and a twin. Money being truly no option you throw in a warbird and a seaplane/amphib. :)

Truth be told, a nice V35 Bo or Cherokee Six/Lance would suit me fine. I wish I had the time to build an RV-10. Unless you put a huge price tag on the intangible value of owning your own bird, or just have zero rental options, I wouldn't be owning an aircraft unless you are flying that 100+ hours a year where it makes sense financially over renting.
 
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For the number of hours I am able to fly right now most people would say that renting is better. However, it seems like every time I rent I find something wrong with the aircraft (intercom problems, shaky nosewheel, one set of mags with a coughing fit, etc. etc.).

I know these problems would happen in my own plane, but at least I can keep on top of it and get it fixed. With the wear and tear these training rentals take, it is not surprising that these problems show up all the time.

I would consider club membership or co-ownership but have not found anything/anyone around me so far.
 
A Cardinal is a really good family plane if you don't need tremendous speed. Affordable, easy in and out, pretty wide, decent payload. Also, its not too much plane for a low time pilot. If you really want to stretch yourself a bit, go for the RG version.
 
DrPappy said:
For the number of hours I am able to fly right now most people would say that renting is better. However, it seems like every time I rent I find something wrong with the aircraft (intercom problems, shaky nosewheel, one set of mags with a coughing fit, etc. etc.).

I know these problems would happen in my own plane, but at least I can keep on top of it and get it fixed. With the wear and tear these training rentals take, it is not surprising that these problems show up all the time.

I would consider club membership or co-ownership but have not found anything/anyone around me so far.
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Same boat here...I went the partnership route and I am really enjoying it. I do not get to fly as much as I would like because of work and other commitments, but the plane is always there and someone is flying it on most weeks. An idle machine is no bueno. Additionally, the ability to overnight is great. With rentals in my area this is not a readily available option.

As others have said, if you want to own, do it! Life is a fine balance of living for today and preparing for tomorrow...with airplanes, you could save forever for that "perfect" plane when you could have paid cash for a 150 or a partnership in a 172/182/PA28.
 
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First plane was a PA28-180
Second plane is a PA24-250
If there's a third plane, it will probably have 2 engines, or one engine and one seat and go really slow.
 
Somedudeintn said:
So I was thinking the other day, "Man it would be nice to have my own plane!" I browsed through a few ads and figured I could buy a Cessna 152 for about 15k and I would have my own plane. Sure I'd have to pay for a tiedown, insurance, and maintenance, and gas, but its more fun to just ignore those and think about having a plane I can fly whenever I want for 15k.

Then I started thinking some more and I realized that two seats are no fun, I need four seats. Nearly everyone else that has a plane has four seats, and even if I can't put any people back there I should have four seats. All these people have to know something I don't. Cherokee 140 it is! I can get one of those for an extra 10k! The 152 would have been $7500/seat, but a $25k 140 is only $6250/ seat. I'm saving money already!

Then I started thinking about how flying a slow plane into a strong headwind isn't much fun if you want to go anywhere. I've really enjoyed slow flight into a strong headwind, but I need to go places so I need a faster plane. M20C it is! I can get a decent one for an extra 15k and now I can really go places. I can even put some skinny legged short people in the back seat! This is great, so much better than a 152. I don't know what I was thinking before.

After I thought about it a bit more I realized that the short bodied Mooney won't cut it either, I might get sued for discrimination if I can only put small people in the back seat. An extra 20k and I can get a M20F. I would have spent more than that in lawyer fees when I got sued with my C so I'm still saving money!

And finally I realized that I need to go a bit faster, 201mph sounds pretty good so I'll fork over the extra 40k and pick up a M20J.

Seriously though whenever I think about buying a 15k 152 that I actually could afford I end up reasoning up to a ~100k M20J that I'll have to keep saving for. Looks like I'll keep renting for the next few years!

Just for kicks I'm though, for someone who is a new father and will likely end up with a family of 4, what "last plane" would you recommend? I likely wouldn't travel further than 400nm on a trip (in-laws are 360nm away and my fam is ~300nm). Ownership is still a ways off for me, but I love to dream!
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I'm somewhat partial to a Cessna 185F, not as fast as the mooney, but still plenty quick on straight wheels, can land anywhere depending in what undercarriage you're sporting.
 
deyoung said:
My first/second aircraft is a PA-28-235, and I haven't outgrown it yet... It's always nice to go faster, but it's also nice to carry a lot of stuff, and this has been a great middle ground between those things and the budget limits so far...
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You chose a good one...
 
I learned in a 152 and moved almost immediately after getting my license into a 172. I thought that a 182 would be my perfect airplane. It's fast enough to get places, can haul 4 reliably, and would be stable for instrument flight.

I went through the same thought process as you did. If I got a Mooney instead of a 182, I could go much faster on the same fuel flow. It would be cheap!

Then I got married and had kids. Even worse, the in laws own a house in Florida, and I'm in Ohio. I know I'll need 6 seats and would love to make it to Florida in some reasonable amount of time, so now I'm up to an A36TN or a 310. Actually, I'm back to that. For a while I thought either of those would be too slow, and wouldn't it be nice to have a toilet for the family, so the 421 would be perfect. But 421 money is crazy talk. A36 or 310 is 10-15 years. Maybe.

In the meantime, I'm in a great spot. I belong to club that has a bunch of 152s and 172s, and also 2 Beech 35s and a 36. So as my kids age I can rent almost exactly what I would want to own to see if we really ever use it. We've even got a 310 and 340, although I think they're instruction/charter only.
 
I personally find this cliche "buy your last plane first" really annoying. Would you say that about cars? Or about your house? Or your clothes? Give me a break. There are a lot of factors that change over time. How much you can afford can change over time. Your mission can change over time. What you like can change.

My advice would be think about your mission over the next 5 years and buy as much plane as you can afford.
 
My first plane, after six years of renting Pipers and Cessnas, was a 1963 M20C. My half was $6500 (this was 1981). Kids were pre-teens and this plane fit perfectly. The Mooney was followed by a C33 Debonair, an A36 Bonanza, and a 36 (no A) Bonanza, all in 3-way partnerships. All the partnerships worked great, partly due to compatible partners and partly because all expectations and contingencies were addressed in written agreements.

I am now shopping for a low and slow taildragger to fly for fun and low cost. Glad I didn't buy this first. At age 68 with no kids at home and lots of time, this fits my needs. All things in their time.

Figure out your mission and what you can afford, and find a way to make it all fit.
 
I've had the same thoughts as the OP, as I'm sure most have.


I don't subscribe to the "buy your last plane first" metality at all. I suppose if you are getting into aviation at a time in your life when you are perhaps a little older and have some money, of if the kids are out of the house, or you happen to have a really good income, then you may be able to buy your last plane first. For a lot of us, our last plane may be out of our reach financially until a later time. I can tell you that I'm going to have to buy something thats way down my list to start out with, but also something that, for the near term, covers my mission needs. For me, it looks like that's going to be an old 182. Hopefully, I'll be able to get into a Cherokee 6 or Lance one of these days, but I'll probably always be buying planes from the low end of the price spectrum on any airplane type usless I figure out how to make some real money between now and then. Unfortunately, I have to have something with a big useful load, and the list of singles that meet that need and are affordable for the common man is pretty small. I wish there were more planes that fit our mission, but alas, we are large people with young boys that are destined to be even larger. The size was a hell of an advantage whe my wife and I were collegiate athletes, but it's not so great in aviation.

That being said, I happen to loooove the Piper Lance, so that's the goal, with the Cherokee 6 as a back-up goal. Some day. :fcross:
 
This thread confuses me.... How can you possibly know what your 'last' plane would be? In 5 years I may want a twin, in 10 I may want a jet... Then in 20 I might want a 2 person tandem home built..... But for now I like flying this 172 I bought.
 
I've heard a number of pilots say "This is the last plane I'll ever own!" after they've had it a while. Heheh.
 
Somedudeintn said:
I browsed through a few ads and figured I could buy a Cessna 152 for about 15k and I would have my own plane.
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Except that you really can't. And I spent quite a bit of effort on this. I don't think there are many pilots who do not understand the difference between Continental O-200 that needs exquisite maintenance (of which you cannot be sure) and bulletproof Lycoming in the 152. Also, 152s are newer. Try to put a seatbelt on your shoulder in a 150L and 152. So, for many good reasons there's a significant price differential between 150 and 152 and the latter bottoms out above $20k (unless you're buying a real project with rusty bottom members).

Even within the 150s finding a $15k one that the first time owner could hope to use productively is almost impossible, unless you luck into one in a 1000 deal by knowing someone. And all of those that are that cheap a very, very old and tired, and drag a tail of ADs a mile long. After 2 years on a market I identified a couple of early 1960 examples that were going for about $16-17k. I put a deposit in for one and even bought a Greyhound ticket one way in order to ferry it home. My wife made me cancel the deal in the last moment, bless her heart. And on reflection she was probably right. That airplane would've been a pit, and the engine would swallow a valve over a mountain forest.

That $15k 152 is a mirage, a phantom. There's no such thing.
 
The $15K 150 was a do-able thing in the early 90s with a half run out engine.

Inflation and time have not been kind to the 150/152 fleet. The few that are maintained as cream puffs will slowly erode away.
 
so....maybe you weren't doing it right? :D
zaitcev said:
Except that you really can't. And I spent quite a bit of effort on this. I don't think there are many pilots who do not understand the difference between Continental O-200 that needs exquisite maintenance (of which you cannot be sure) and bulletproof Lycoming in the 152. Also, 152s are newer. Try to put a seatbelt on your shoulder in a 150L and 152. So, for many good reasons there's a significant price differential between 150 and 152 and the latter bottoms out above $20k (unless you're buying a real project with rusty bottom members).

Even within the 150s finding a $15k one that the first time owner could hope to use productively is almost impossible, unless you luck into one in a 1000 deal by knowing someone. And all of those that are that cheap a very, very old and tired, and drag a tail of ADs a mile long. After 2 years on a market I identified a couple of early 1960 examples that were going for about $16-17k. I put a deposit in for one and even bought a Greyhound ticket one way in order to ferry it home. My wife made me cancel the deal in the last moment, bless her heart. And on reflection she was probably right. That airplane would've been a pit, and the engine would swallow a valve over a mountain forest.

That $15k 152 is a mirage, a phantom. There's no such thing.
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I purchased a C152 to train in 1979. I then purchased an S model bonanza at 42 hours after I had my PPL. The bonanza has flown my family (3 children) to the Bahamas at least 15 times, and 4 of us cross country to the 84 Olympics. I still own it and purchased a C172 to finally teach my son and son-in-law. My son has his PPL and my son-in-law has solo'ed. After I get them both through their instrument lesson, I will sell the C172 and give the bonanza to my sons. As a low time pilot when I purchased the bonanza, I gave myself one year to get my instrument rating or I would sell the bonanza. I got my instrument rating in 6 months and I have never regretted purchasing the bonanza as my 2nd and "last" plane.
 
OkieAviator said:
This thread confuses me.... How can you possibly know what your 'last' plane would be? In 5 years I may want a twin, in 10 I may want a jet... Then in 20 I might want a 2 person tandem home built..... But for now I like flying this 172 I bought.
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Most pilots only move up the ladder once or twice from their trainer. The statement is aimed at those, as it saves them the cost of a minor upgrade like 172 to a Mooney. Buy the Mooney first. Keep in mind many people get their PPL in an SR22T now.
 
OkieAviator said:
This thread confuses me.... How can you possibly know what your 'last' plane would be? In 5 years I may want a twin, in 10 I may want a jet... Then in 20 I might want a 2 person tandem home built..... But for now I like flying this 172 I bought.
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Simple.

At some point, maintaining you medical becomes more trouble than it is worth. So, your last airplane will be an LSA. The only question then becomes: A traditional taildragger or more "modern" aircraft with the tailwheel on the wrong end?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Most pilots only move up the ladder once or twice from their trainer. The statement is aimed at those, as it saves them the cost of a minor upgrade like 172 to a Mooney. Buy the Mooney first. Keep in mind many people get their PPL in an SR22T now.
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:yeahthat:

A good example is my most recent instrument student. He partnered with a friend on a C-150 to get his license and the partner's daughter to get hers. He then went shopping for his "First Airplane". At 64 hours total time he took delivery of a used turbo-normalized Bonanza A36. It took him close to 50 hours in it to be really proficient and get signed off for solo (although that included a LOT of commuting XC time so not like it was 50 hours of regular training.) A year later he had 250 hours TT and his instrument rating. That plane will meet his needs for a long time.
 
You might as well get a bonanza because that's what you'll end up with. The old saw still holds true except for the uber wealthy buying cirri.
 
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