Buy to finish training

Kitch

Kitch

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
391
Location
SE Mass
Display Name
Display name:
Kitch
I'm a few lessons away from getting my solo endorsement in a 172 and debating buying a 206 to finish my training in and move on to IFR training. I plan to buy my last airplane first thats why I'm going with the 206 it fits mission 95% of the time.

The question is spring for the 206 now or wait until I have my PPL
 
If you have to ask, I would wait. Until you’re fully convicted to buy, against sound advice to the contrary, you probably shouldn’t. I guess it all depends on your “disposable” income though. My opinion is worth $-0.005...
 
do the solo in the rental.
sayz the guy who did not take this advice
 
Becoming an owner is a LOT easier than becoming a pilot.

The former requires being able to just write a check. ;)

Owning an airplane complicates your life. Suggest you concentrate on the latter and avoid the former, unless you are having trouble getting access to rental trainers.
 
Wait, how does a 206 fit only 95%? Also, are you realistically evaluating your missions? Do you really need 6 seats?

I thought I'd have a ton of people in the plane with me after my PPL was obtained and we'd go all over the place. The reality is, 50% of the time it's just me on XC to work and the other 45% of the time it's me+1 local. Only recently has that been changing with the family but it's still closer to 5%.
 
wheaties said:
Wait, how does a 206 fit only 95%? Also, are you realistically evaluating your missions? Do you really need 6 seats?

I thought I'd have a ton of people in the plane with me after my PPL was obtained and we'd go all over the place. The reality is, 50% of the time it's just me on XC to work and the other 45% of the time it's me+1 local. Only recently has that been changing with the family but it's still closer to 5%.
Click to expand...
Don't listen to wheaties! He's just trying to avoid competition for a 205/206 :)

Just kidding.

A few points from my perspective (non owner, PPL for 4 years).

1. Renting does suck in most places. it's expensive, their policies are confining, scheduling can be really hard, etc. That said, it's a pretty standard way to get through your private
2. As hinted at here, for some reason, the goal of most pilots seems to be to warn people off of owning planes. I assume it's coming from a good place, but man, it's universally "don't bother owning unless there is no possible way to rent what you want" I know the cost and hassle factor for owning are there, but obviously don't have first hand knowledge.
3. On the other side of the coin, buying the right plane can take some time. You'll want to study the market, learn what the gotcha's are for the type your interested in, learn how much various configurations are worth/etc so when you start shopping, you have a good idea what features/characteristics are must have, nice to have, indifferent, or avoid. I don't know much about 206's, but I bet there is a type club online somewhere for them. I would counter other people though by saying if you know the 206 is going to work for your real missions (ie, you actually have that many who will fly with you enough to be worth owning it), and you can comfortably afford it (including storage, insurance, maintenance, etc) then realize that it will take you some months to get smart about the 206 market, and to find, prebuy and purchase the right plane. If you're really serious, you could start on that now while going full speed at your flight training in the current rental. You can always switch to the 206 later in training, or just after your checkride (it'll require some more hours with a CFI to transition - that's a good thing/idea)
 
MIFlyer said:
Don't listen to wheaties! He's just trying to avoid competition for a 205/206 :)

Just kidding.
Click to expand...

Ssshhh... don't tell him my secret. But honestly, if you think a 206 is perfect, then buy a 182. Only after you reach the point where you're having to scrap flights should you move up. (A 205 costs the same to fly as a 182 but hauls like a 206.)
 
Have you asked your instructor whether he (or anyone he knows) is willing to do primary instruction in a 206? I’ve worked with a lot who refuse to teach in anything other than a 172 or Archer.

I’d also suggest that if you buy now, make sure you’ve got somebody who can teach you how to deal with owning an airplane and properly caring for it at the same time...I used to know a guy who got his Private in his Bonanza, and promptly flew 4 or 5 months out of annual because he assumed that the airplane had a fresh annual when he bought it.
 
wheaties said:
Ssshhh... don't tell him my secret. But honestly, if you think a 206 is perfect, then buy a 182. Only after you reach the point where you're having to scrap flights should you move up. (A 205 costs the same to fly as a 182 but hauls like a 206.)
Click to expand...
:) I know, I looked at them early in my decision making process and if you wanted a high wing and wanted more than a 182, there was a lot of value in a 205 if you could give up a couple of features on the 206. Good luck!
 
GRG55 said:
Becoming an owner is a LOT easier than becoming a pilot.

The former requires being able to just write a check. ;)

Owning an airplane complicates your life. Suggest you concentrate on the latter and avoid the former, unless you are having trouble getting access to rental trainers.
Click to expand...
says a man who owns two ;)
 
The 206 is a fantastic airplane. I owned a 185(same wing and engine) for a many years and have time in 206's. Super utility, lift almost anything you can fit in them, not slow/not fast. The maintenance costs are quite reasonable if you get a good engine and take care of it correctly. But, they are expensive to buy (rightly so) and not ideal for just buzzing around in the sky with one or two people(heavy on the controls, 300 hp)

Owning vs renting-- it is arguable that owning an airplane is almost never a great "investment". But... training in your own aircraft is one way for it to pay its own way, somewhat, at least until you are done training. I took my very first flying lesson in a Citabria that I owned, with my brother. I was 17, and have owned one or more aircraft continuously since then, which was a few decades ago.

If you can afford a 206 and it fits your mission. I say, go for it. A 206 can burn a lot of fuel, but they also fly just fine on lower power settings, if you are not in a hurry.
 
Keep using the rental to finish up. No point beating up your own plane yet.
 
Thanks for all the feedback.

To answer some of the questions. Do I need 6 seats no, however i do need the useful load. I'm 6'5" 330 (no not a belly over the belt buckle 330) needless to say I dont come from a family of small people. Will they fly with me all time not at all that being said I do want that option.

Like I said in my OP I plan to by my last airplane first I have zero interest in upgrading every 2 years.

I don't have unlimited funds but I am going to make it a business expense which will allow me a significant tax deduction.
 
Kitch said:
Thanks for all the feedback.

To answer some of the questions. Do I need 6 seats no, however i do need the useful load. I'm 6'5" 330 (no not a belly over the belt buckle 330) needless to say I dont come from a family of small people. Will they fly with me all time not at all that being said I do want that option.

Like I said in my OP I plan to by my last airplane first I have zero interest in upgrading every 2 years.

I don't have unlimited funds but I am going to make it a business expense which will allow me a significant tax deduction.
Click to expand...
My 182 has 1305lbs useful. I’ve had someone 6’5 in it several times too. Also finished my ppl in it... you can count on the transition adding 20 hours or so to your ppl
 
If your family is taller (and thus heavier) a 206 will be great for that including entry and exit as well. Keep in mind a 206 doesn't have a copilot door. So the CFI will be sliding over (opposite of the low wing trainers).

If you alot money per hour for the engine reserve and other expenses the 206 hourly rate (for you) will almost exactly match the 172 rental rate so dont do it to save money on training you wont.

If you are this far in, I'd finished in the 172 and be looking for the right 206 vs rush. I bet a DPE would like doing a private in a 206 for a change for the normal.
 
Also, training in your own plane can easily add another hour to your day. You have to prep it, pull it out, get fuel, scrub bugs, etc. With rentals you walk out, quick walk around and go. So if you are time limited for training, keep renting.
 
WannFly said:
do the solo in the rental.
sayz the guy who did not take this advice
Click to expand...
Yeah, but you would up finding the perfect airplane for yourself.... Hard to turn down no matter what the timing.
 
F’ it, I change my mind, buy a plane.

It’s kinda like drinking beer with minor kids.

You should strive to be a hypocrite to protect em, lol.
 
Maybe @Kitch could pick up sweet Van Bortel 206. Do a months worth of lessons in it...return it for another and keep the one without all the PPL wear....kidding mostly.

I'm with @455 Bravo Uniform - life is short. The OP has flying in him and knows his last plane already. Go for it.

God knows at 6'5" and 330lbs hes got plenty of upper arm strength to push back on a full elevator up full power go around. And so what if its nose heavy he can handle that too.

Just find an instructor who knows and loves the plane. They'll take care of you and the ship.
 
MIFlyer said:
says a man who owns two ;)
Click to expand...

Yah. And both are in for annual in June, so will be an expensive month.
And to add insult to injury, my mechanic reminded me I have a total of 16 cylinders in my collection to fret about now. o_O
 
I would definitely check out insurance costs. You may find that waiting until you have your IFR ticket will affect the insurance.
 
GRG55 said:
Yah. And both are in for annual in June, so will be an expensive month.
And to add insult to injury, my mechanic reminded me I have a total of 16 cylinders in my collection to fret about now. o_O
Click to expand...
cmon buddy! why didn't you time their annuals to different months? Actually, I see the Aztec being all year, but isn't the little fella a fair weather plane? you need a February annual on that bad boy.
 
I’m torn on how to answer this. I bought my Tiger to train in and get my ticket. It was great BUT if you think you pucker on a bad landing in a rental, wait until you own the gear you are slamming on the non-centerline.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Don’t get the cart in front of the horse. Is there hangar space available at your airport?
Click to expand...
in some areas, that literally brings laughter. On the FATPNW facebook group, someone asked for a lead on a hangar within an hour of Seattle. Most of the comments were actual laughter. While a hangar would be nice, sometimes the dream is more important than the details.
 
Kitch said:
Thanks for all the feedback.

To answer some of the questions. Do I need 6 seats no, however i do need the useful load. I'm 6'5" 330 (no not a belly over the belt buckle 330) needless to say I dont come from a family of small people. Will they fly with me all time not at all that being said I do want that option.

Like I said in my OP I plan to by my last airplane first I have zero interest in upgrading every 2 years.

I don't have unlimited funds but I am going to make it a business expense which will allow me a significant tax deduction.
Click to expand...

Constantly reading posts by people trying to talk someone out of buying a plane that fits their mission and budget is an annoying fact of life at POA.

As an example, one poster said "Keep using the rental to finish up. No point beating up your own plane yet."

I wasn't aware pilot training required 'beating up' an aircraft. As for the 'yet' part of that, one wonders how 'enthusiastically' said poster flys.
 
MIFlyer said:
cmon buddy! why didn't you time their annuals to different months? Actually, I see the Aztec being all year, but isn't the little fella a fair weather plane? you need a February annual on that bad boy.
Click to expand...

They were staggered. But Covid fixed that.
 
3393RP said:
Constantly reading posts by people trying to talk someone out of buying a plane that fits their mission and budget is an annoying fact of life at POA...
Click to expand...

Just because someone who has yet to solo a 172 pops up on here, defines a "need" and has the cash doesn't necessarily mean it's a sensible or considered decision to rush off and buy a plane.

How many people solo and never finish their PPL? How many people finish their PPL and barely ever fly again? And how many airplanes are out there rotting at tie-downs or turning to dust in hangars, never flown by their owners?

As I said in my post buying an airplane is much easier than becoming a pilot. It's an opinion. He doesn't have to agree with it, and he's under no obligation to follow anyone's opinion or advice here.
 
As an experienced CFI, I'd have to vote for getting your PPL first. Sure, pilots have done initial training in all kinds of planes, 182, 206, Bonanzas, etc., but it just adds to the learning curve. And, as mentioned, check on insurance, likely to be very high.
 
ktup-flyer said:
My 182 has 1305lbs useful. I’ve had someone 6’5 in it several times too. Also finished my ppl in it... you can count on the transition adding 20 hours or so to your ppl
Click to expand...

20 hours? That seems exceedingly excessive unless it’s an insurance requirement.

It’s a light single engine plane with fixed gear and a nose wheel. Other than feeling heavier than a 172, there isn’t much of a difference. 2-3 hours for high performance, but that may not change anything depending on where you are in the training.
 
skier said:
20 hours? That seems exceedingly excessive unless it’s an insurance requirement.

It’s a light single engine plane with fixed gear and a nose wheel. Other than feeling heavier than a 172, there isn’t much of a difference. 2-3 hours for high performance, but that may not change anything depending on where you are in the training.
Click to expand...
A lot of that was me just playing around and feeling it out. All of the maneuvers feel a lot different. Power-on stalls are fun, especially when light and turning
 
Just curious, what vintage of 206 are you considering? Turbo or NA?
 
3393RP said:
Constantly reading posts by people trying to talk someone out of buying a plane that fits their mission and budget is an annoying fact of life at POA.

As an example, one poster said "Keep using the rental to finish up. No point beating up your own plane yet."

I wasn't aware pilot training required 'beating up' an aircraft. As for the 'yet' part of that, one wonders how 'enthusiastically' said poster flys.
Click to expand...

That would be my comment. As CFI sitting in having students land hard, start side loading, constantly changing powers settings, etc. I do all I I can to have a student avoid these problems, but they are all part of the learning process.

Why do you think rentals and trainer are in the shop so much. Usually not in that great of shape.
What plane you you prefer, 3K hour TTAF that has been used as a trainer, or 3K TTAF that has hell of lot more cruising hours than bouncing off the runway.
 
You will know a lot more that is useful for considering a plane after earning your PPL. Even then you are a bit of a noob buying an aircraft, but at least more knowledgable.
 
Kitch said:
.

I don't have unlimited funds but I am going to make it a business expense which will allow me a significant tax deduction.
Click to expand...

Make sure you discuss this with a tax lawyer or CPA first. It’s not as straightforward as it seems and you have to use this plane primarily for business and document it properly.
 
Kitch:
I bought my first plane to get my PPL and think it paid off well for me. In addition to lower costs to operate, owning the plane allowed me to fly much more frequently. That said, I never had any significant maintenance issues while I owned the plane. A blown engine would likely have changed the numbers.

You sound like you’ve done research regarding the type of plane you’re after fitting you’re mission. Others have given plenty of feedback for other things to consider.

I strongly suggest you talk with insurance brokers about getting insurance before you move forward. My wife and I wanted a 210 but with no retractable experience at the time I was unable to get insured for a 210 at any cost despite having over 1200 hours total time and my IFR.

One broker suggested that I check out a Cardinal RG instead. We did and that’s what I bought. In the end it’s been a good fit for the way we actually use the plane and it probably makes more sense economically than the 210 would have. I still long for the extra speed but haven’t run into a situation where having the extra carrying capacity or the other seats would have helped for the flights we make.

Good luck.

Gary
 
Sinistar said:
Maybe @Kitch could pick up sweet Van Bortel 206. Do a months worth of lessons in it...return it for another and keep the one without all the PPL wear....kidding mostly.

I'm with @455 Bravo Uniform - life is short. The OP has flying in him and knows his last plane already. Go for it.

God knows at 6'5" and 330lbs hes got plenty of upper arm strength to push back on a full elevator up full power go around. And so what if its nose heavy he can handle that too.

Just find an instructor who knows and loves the plane. They'll take care of you and the ship.
Click to expand...

A few people have warned me about the heavier controls which I will have to overcome either way, but I'm reasonably sure I have the muscle to do it

MBDiagMan said:
Don’t get the cart in front of the horse. Is there hangar space available at your airport?
Click to expand...

There is space available at 3 out of 4 close by airports.

EugeneR said:
Make sure you discuss this with a tax lawyer or CPA first. It’s not as straightforward as it seems and you have to use this plane primarily for business and document it properly.
Click to expand...

It never is with .gov is it. LOL We have an over the road trucking company with customers all over the country and everyone that would be flying with me is on the payroll.


Cervieres said:
Just curious, what vintage of 206 are you considering? Turbo or NA?
Click to expand...

Turbo



Thanks for all the good advice lots to think about for sure. I will keep training and keep looking at this point.

Oh and as for insurance cost I was quoted 6k per year while I'm a student. Don't know if that has enough coverage for what I would like liability wise that's a whole different discussion. Aviation is one big learning curve from all aspects it seems.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top