Build or purchase something with 2200 nm range

Trivia question: How long was Charles Lindbergh's flight across the Atlantic, how many hours, and how much fuel did he take????



3600 miles, 33 1/2 hours, and 450 gal of fuel
 
Thanks mr smith-
Enjoyed reading the max conrad article
 
Okay, you can laugh, but there is a 2-seat high-wing super-efficient airplane that can easily fly from California to Hawaii non-stop (without refueling)... as long as you buy the optional 300 liter "extreme range" fuel tanks (in the high wings). The airplane is a pipistrel virus sw with Rotax 912iS engine.

Here are the specifications:

engine == Rotax 912iS (takes premium unleaded gasoline... or 100LL)
fuel capacity == 300 liters (with optional "extreme range" fuel tanks in the wings).
cruise speed at 75% power == 273 kph == 169 mph
fuel consumption at 75% power == 15.7 liters per hour
endurance == 300 liters / 15.7 liters per hour == 19.1 hours
range == 273 kph * 19.1 hours == 5216 km == 3241 miles
distance from airports on the island of Hawaii or Maui to several cities near the west coast of California == 3800 km == 2400 miles

Therefore, the airplane can travel 1.37 times as far as necessary... which is plenty of safety factor to allow for extreme headwinds.

According to owners, they get much better fuel economy at "economy speed", which they variously peg at 220kph to 240kph. They also claim to get much worse fuel economy at maximum speed of 300 kph. So clearly the consequences of drag between 220kph and 300kph is very substantial. According to some, they get nearly 1.5 times the fuel economy (and thus range) at economy speed, which would put the maximum range at an insane 7800 kilometers or 4800 miles!

For reference, if you fly at the rated 75% power cruise speed of 273 kph, the trip from California to Hawaii or vice versa will take 13.9 hours. That means you can make the trip during daylight hours when flying west from California to Hawaii. But you can't make the trip from Hawaii to California during daylight hours because the sun is moving westward while you fly eastward. However, the sun moves more than half way around the earth (figuratively speaking) during your 13.9 hour flight eastward, so night doesn't last nearly as long as it does when you're standing still. So you'll have to take-off about 4 hours before dawn when you fly eastward from Hawaii to California... if you want to land in California before nightfall.

The price for such a plane with garmin G3X and other options you should have for flying these kinds of missions will probably be somewhere between $175K and $190K or so, depending on how many not necessary optional goodies you want.

Anyway, I don't have a solution for a 4-seat airplane, but there is a solution for a 2-seat airplane.

Of course you can make a lot of other airplanes work (including many 4, 6 or 8 seat airplanes) if you remove at least 2 seats and fill up every available cubic inch of empty volume with fuel tanks. But that means you'll need at least a 6-seat airplane to carry 4 passengers. Plus, you'll find that many airplanes will be too heavy to "be legal" at such a high weight. In contrast, the solution I mentioned above doesn't require any extra fuel tanks at all.
 
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Working with three experimental factories I worked out how to do the extreme range. However for the long range flight I assumed only two people.

Here are the planes I did the math for:
1. Lancair Maco
2. Revolution/Tango RAI-6
3. Velocity V-Twin

For the first two, Continental was willing to sell me a CD-265 which is a 265HP diesel engine. You sacrifice some performance below 5K compared to spec, but you gain a lot of range and speed as the turbos take over. In fact the range with 200 gallon tanks in both put the range over 3000 miles at just under 200 KTAS at 10K.

For the V-Twin, I was going with 200HP IO-360 using SDS EII system or Aeromomentum 215HP engine. In either case, this was slightly faster, and could push the fuel on board to 225 or potentially 250 with wing tanks plus the strakes. The range would was also 3000 or so but would be just over 200KTAS at 10k.

The advantage of the Velocity was we could actually install a camp potty in one of the back seats. Mako and RAI had a wing spar under the seat...

Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
 
acd said:
Hi all,

I just found this site on a search, apologies if it's not the correct place. What I'm looking for is to purchase or build (preferably build because it would be more fun) something with sufficient range to get me where I want to go, yet not too big. That means I don't really want a Citation... My goal (which may well be impossible) is something 4-seater-ish with a bit of luggage which could go from the mainland USA to Hawaii. Example is KSAN to PHTO (2200 nm-ish).

I like the idea of a Lancair IV-P but it's got half the range that I want. The only other options with "ultra high range" top out around 1800 nm. I certainly appreciate the safety concerns of heading out across the wide Pacific with a single engine, but twins use more fuel, thus are even more of a unicorn for something with that range.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd definitely appreciate it. What I'm looking for may well be impossible and I should just give up, and I'd appreciate that feedback as well.

Thanks!
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Once upon a time the USCG operated a weather ship stationed halfway between the US and Hawaii. We regularly talked to pilots of single-engine airplanes flying that route that used us as a navigation point and emergency assistance. I recall a Bonanza pilot who couldn't get his auxiliary tanks to feed and who was prepared to ditch along side....we had men in the boats ready to go when he reported that the problem had been fixed and he continued west.

Bill Cox, an international ferry pilot who writes articles for Flying mazazine, among others, has made the trips dozens of times. However, he flies alone, and the cabins are always full of auxiliary fuel tanks; the idea that you could just load up pax and baggage and take off is a dream.

Bob
 
denverpilot said:
I haven’t looked to see if this couple is on there but there’s a bunch of round the globe stories at Earthrounders.

I’ve always been impressed with how many 182s have puttered all the way around the globe.
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Had a friend with a 182 who flew from Seattle to Europe and Africa fairly regularly.

Bob
 
Crashnburn said:
If you can fit in the plane!
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You can definitely fit two people in the pipistrel virus sw 912iS. I know, I flew in one with the owner. But the capacity for luggage (behind the front seats) is far from enormous, so pack light! I would not call the cockpit "roomy" for two people, but it is adequate. Far more than sufficient leg room, but width is a bit tight unless the pilot and passenger lean gently against the door windows, which is fine.

Unless you own a jet, no matter what you're flying, you'll definitely be ready to get out of the airplane, stretch your legs and walk around in wide open spaces for awhile when you finish a non-stop trip from California to Hawaii!

One potentially good feature of this airplane is... if you feel a bit claustrophobic after several hours, you can slow down for little awhile, open your door completely wide open (folds up against bottom of the high wing), and enjoy completely wide open spaces right next to you. I suppose there might be other reasons one might want to open the door for a little while too, but I won't discuss that here and now. :)

PS: If you don't buy the optional ballistic emergency parachute (designed to gently float the entire airplane to the ground (or ocean) in an emergency), that volume and mass is available for more baggage (but still not a generous volume).

The 300 liter extreme range tank option is expensive... about $20,000. With all the options one should have for flying missions like this, the total cost will probably fall between $175K and $190K USD... or even $200K if you go a bit crazy on options.
 
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tspear said:
Working with three experimental factories I worked out how to do the extreme range. However for the long range flight I assumed only two people.

Here are the planes I did the math for:
1. Lancair Maco
2. Revolution/Tango RAI-6
3. Velocity V-Twin

For the first two, Continental was willing to sell me a CD-265 which is a 265HP diesel engine. You sacrifice some performance below 5K compared to spec, but you gain a lot of range and speed as the turbos take over. In fact the range with 200 gallon tanks in both put the range over 3000 miles at just under 200 KTAS at 10K.

For the V-Twin, I was going with 200HP IO-360 using SDS EII system or Aeromomentum 215HP engine. In either case, this was slightly faster, and could push the fuel on board to 225 or potentially 250 with wing tanks plus the strakes. The range would was also 3000 or so but would be just over 200KTAS at 10k.

The advantage of the Velocity was we could actually install a camp potty in one of the back seats. Mako and RAI had a wing spar under the seat...
Click to expand...

Wow, interesting... And pretty impressive range!

I had to look at what the Velocity twin looked like again, I was originally thinking about the Rutan Defiant, but its range isn't spectacular. I was thinking maybe shutting down and feathering one of its engines would be one way to extend the range while still having some options in case of mechanical failure, but it turns out it uses fixed-pitch props! Weird.

The Rutan Boomerang can make the trip, though...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
... I was originally thinking about the Rutan Defiant, but its range isn't spectacular. I was thinking maybe shutting down and feathering one of its engines would be one way to extend the range while still having some options in case of mechanical failure, but it turns out it uses fixed-pitch props! Weird.

The Rutan Boomerang can make the trip, though...
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Fit whatever props you want to a Defiant. It is an experimental, after all. The problem is that there are very few plan sets out there and even fewer complete aircraft. Also, the plane was designed to be a safe twin, rather than a high performance/high efficiency twin.

Rutan's Catbird would probably fit the OP's mission, but plans were never available for it.
 
You want an ADI Super Stallion. I am helping a friend complete his build, which will include a super charged Continental IO550 with EFI and dual EI. It can hold 80 gallons per wing and could be plumbed for an aux tank (but not needed). It was designed by Martin Hollmann, the same person that designed the Lancair and Cirrus aircraft.

Performance
 
Kenny Phillips said:
It's merely an opinion. Some folks love to fly Merlins. Some love to fly P210s. Some hate to fly anything they don't own.
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Of course it is,but there's usually some reason for a negative opinion.
 
Ray Eaker said:
You want an ADI Super Stallion. I am helping a friend complete his build, which will include a super charged Continental IO550 with EFI and dual EI. It can hold 80 gallons per wing and could be plumbed for an aux tank (but not needed). It was designed by Martin Hollmann, the same person that designed the Lancair and Cirrus aircraft.

Performance
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According to the ADI website, those cruise speeds are 100 high.
 
Ken Ibold said:
According to the ADI website, those cruise speeds are 100 high.
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Yeah, Martin was showing the Super Stallion at a Santa Rosa (STS) fly-in/airshow several years ago and I spent about 15 minutes chatting with him. He said he was seeing about 200 knots in "high cruise" with an IO 550. Martin was a very interesting guy.
 
Ken Ibold said:
According to the ADI website, those cruise speeds are 100 high.
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Ummm. I hope it isn't too much to ask people to say roughly how much the airplanes they mention cost (new). If you want to suggest a used version, then an estimate of how much that costs for how many years old will also be helpful.

Otherwise, I'll add the following suggestion. Buy a Boeing 747-8 or Airbus 380-800. They should be able to make it !!! :)

Woops, sorry! I was trying to address the guy you answered (and everyone else who suggestions and airplane for the OP purpose), not you. :-o

But I also very much agree with you that providing accurate specifications is very important... especially if you don't want to run out of fuel 500km from the nearest land!
 
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Ken Ibold said:
According to the ADI website, those cruise speeds are 100 high.
Click to expand...

Those were not the super-charged version putting out 350ish HP. This will be the first with EI and EFI, as well. In any case, it fits the OPs requirements (on paper), which was my point.
 
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