Broward County Police Copter Down

Piperonca said:
Disclaimer: my experience is mostly military including Vietnam, and several decades ago when training risks were more acceptable than in today's commercial operations.
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I was going to ask you if you had any twin engine helicopter time. Not to stab but there is a significant shift in mindset when you are flying twin engine helicopters. In a single, when all else fails, you auto.

I can tell you from experience in the simulator. I was given an engine fire on short final to a rooftop helipad. It took me almost 10 seconds to figure out what that odd ding-dong sound was. Once I figured it out, I pushed the fire button which turns the fuel off. But I still did a single engine approach to the helipad because I didn't have enough power to go around.

Lesson learned for everybody was that the only time you hear that ding-dong sound is when starting the helicopter and you test the fire detection system. Even then, it is very quick.
 
k9medic said:
I was going to ask you if you had any twin engine helicopter time. Not to stab but there is a significant shift in mindset when you are flying twin engine helicopters. In a single, when all else fails, you auto.

I can tell you from experience in the simulator. I was given an engine fire on short final to a rooftop helipad. It took me almost 10 seconds to figure out what that odd ding-dong sound was. Once I figured it out, I pushed the fire button which turns the fuel off. But I still did a single engine approach to the helipad because I didn't have enough power to go around.

Lesson learned for everybody was that the only time you hear that ding-dong sound is when starting the helicopter and you test the fire detection system. Even then, it is very quick.
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Funny you would ask. Yes, I do have twin engine helicopter time.

Got a transition to the CH-47 in the Texas ARNG way back when. A few of us went to Ft. Sill OK for the training. My IP was famous but I didn't know it at the time. What impressed me on one of my first flight periods was when we were climbing out of Lawson AAF. My IP was checking the engine/transmission instruments as was customary and I was at the controls at about 200 AGL crossing the highway. He suddenly called MAYDAY MAYDAY to the tower, grabbed the controls, and slammed the CH-47 helicopter into a kindergarten playground on the north side of the airfield. Shut everything off and said GET OUT! So my stick buddy and I bailed immediately and right after the IP came flying out the door. We got some distance and I watched in fascination at those gigantic blades still turning and there we were, nestled in among those tight little buildings. Looking to my left, I see fire trucks bouncing into the air as they crossed the highway median ditch at high speed. It was quite the scene, not to be forgotten.

So what caused that? He had seen a gauge with zero reading. I think it was a xmsn pressure, IIRC. That was enough for IMMEDIATE precautionary landing. I was OK with it, and so was his chain of command. During the ensuing weeks of training, he put the aircraft on the ground four more times for similar reasons. To me, it was an adventure and I was fine with it. Finally I found out why the guy was so touchy. Wish I could remember his name, but anyway he had had a Chinook catch fire inflight with him as PIC, and he had gotten it on the ground just as it turned into a fireball. He and his CP had popped the door safety handles and jumped out to save their lives. Got some burns apparently, but I had not noticed them. What he also got was a keen sense of caution which he passed on very vividly to his students.

Then I went back to my Guard unit at Dallas NAS for local unit checkout. My IP had been a pilot on Guns-A-Go Go.
http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/chinook/gunsagogo.html On my first flight he turned off the SAS and made me fly without it the rest of the period, including hover taxi to parking. Those with 47A/B experience will know what I'm talking about. My flight suit was soaked with sweat after that. I felt like I had been in a prize fight.

My point(s)? Realistic training is good training. If my IP can put a CH-47 in a small opening in a complex of buildings, you can put an EC-135 in a football field.
 
Piperonca said:
Then I went back to my Guard unit at Dallas NAS for local unit checkout. My IP had been a pilot on Guns-A-Go Go.
http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/chinook/gunsagogo.html On my first flight he turned off the SAS and made me fly without it the rest of the period, including hover taxi to parking. Those with 47A/B experience will know what I'm talking about. My flight suit was soaked with sweat after that. I felt like I had been in a prize fight.
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Special Air Services?
Statistical Analysis System?
Social Anxiety Syndrome?
Security Alarm System?
 
donjohnston said:
Special Air Services?
Statistical Analysis System?
Social Anxiety Syndrome?
Security Alarm System?
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Stability Augmentation System, sorry. Keeps the CH-47 from swapping ends in flight. When that IP (instructor pilot) turned it off, we had been in cruise flight and suddenly I'm in what seems like a 90 degree right bank, but the fuselage had yawed 90 degrees left. The result was a poor imitation of a V-22 as those big rotors were now side by side like a pair of Percherons dragging a freight car sideways through the air. Next thing I realize is my IP is screeching with laughter like a hyena so loud I can hear him without the intercom. In a Chinook, that's going some.
 
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k9medic said:
It took me almost 10 seconds to figure out what that odd ding-dong sound was. Once I figured it out, I pushed the fire button which turns the fuel off. But I still did a single engine approach to the helipad because I didn't have enough power to go around. Lesson learned for everybody was that the only time you hear that ding-dong sound is when starting the helicopter and you test the fire detection system. Even then, it is very quick.
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You have just stated a perfect and timely User Requirement for somebody at Airbus to change that ding dong sound to FIRE! FIRE! FIRE! then move the fire warning light to its own place at the top of the panel and make it bigger. Human Factors Engineering 101.
 
Piperonca said:
Stability Augmentation System, sorry. Keeps the CH-47 from swapping ends in flight. When that IP (instructor pilot) turned it off, we had been in cruise flight and suddenly I'm in what seems like a 90 degree right bank, but the fuselage had yawed 90 degrees left. The result was a poor imitation of a V-22 as those big rotors were now side by side like a pair of Percherons dragging a freight car sideways through the air. Next thing I realize is my IP is screeching with laughter like a hyena so loud I can hear him without the intercom. In a Chinook, that's going some.
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"like a pair of Percherons dragging a freight car sideways through the air."
Now that's funny! :rofl:
 
The fire warning buttons are on the top left of the panel. On some S/N airframes the CAD will also show FIRE. The issue here is that most NVG modded EC135's will have film over the fire warning buttons which makes it very had to see in the day time.

I agree, an annunciation like "fire" would be a lot better!
 
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