Bought my wife a Jaguar XKR - Thinking Involved

[Ted]

So to keep up with my "thinking" threads, here's the next one.

As some of you who keep up with Ted's Garage know, we have a 2003 Mercedes E55 AMG that I bought as my daily driver about 3.5 years ago. It had 190k miles on it when I bought it and at the time I figured "Maybe I'll get 1-2 years and 10-20k miles out of it." Basically the intent was to keep it as a disposable car.

In the end, we got around 40k miles out of it. For the first year and a half or so it was my daily driver, and then my wife drove it (mostly reliably) to Wichita multiple times a week with her previous job before her current jet gig. Since starting flying the jets, the miles put on it have gone down severely to only around 5k per year, maybe less.

However, the Mercedes was getting to the point where it needed a lot of little items. Turn signals didn't cancel correctly, interior was starting to show its wear (although still remarkably good for 231k miles), mysterious coolant disappearing (which I still haven't figured out the exact cause of), and random electrical issues. It got to the point where it was still a really fun car, but a car that didn't work for a role of something that my wife needed to drive to the airport reliably to catch her plane.

I'd been planning on getting her a "new" car for this purpose for some time, but had intended on trying to time it with some major milestone. Over the weekend the instrument cluster started acting weird (although then reset itself) and I decided that was the last straw. I'd been browsing CraigsList, Facebook, and AutoTrader for a while looking for the "right" car that was local. I had a few different cars in mind, and then came across a 2001 Jaguar XKR with 59k miles.

As some know, I'm a recovering Jaguar nut and haven't owned a Jaguar myself in nearly 10 years, my last one being a 1992 Jaguar XJS V12 with a 5-speed manual transmission. I loved the XKR when it came out and it was a car that I have always loved. In my opinion, it was probably the best looking Jaguar of modern times, modern being defined as the era following the E-type (last built in the 70s). I still think this era XKR looks better than the subsequent XKRs.

This has a good history with almost all dealer service since new, a local car, rust-free from what I've found. A few minor problems, but nothing unexpected. In fact fewer things than I would have expected. I saw the car yesterday, made a deal, and picked it up this morning. Laurie came home from work today and we met for lunch, she was surprised and thrilled. This evening she drove it and decided she likes it way better than the E55, so I made a good call. Best of all, it has her favorite color combination - black on black (this was a must for any car I got for her).

So now I have to put the E55 up for sale, and see what I get for it.

 

[FormerHangie]

Pretty slick.

It must be nice to have a wife who likes cars. Mine has been overcome by crossover madness, I'll be surprised if she ever goes back to a sedan or coupe. When we met, she drove a Honda Prelude, but that was gone in favor of a Lexus RX300 a year after we married.

 

[ja_user]

That’s going to be a fun ride..

 

[Ted]

That’s going to be a fun ride..

On paper it has less horsepower than the E55 - 370 vs 469. But to drive it it feels faster overall.

 

[ja_user]

And you got to use the trailer again

 

[DaleB]

Nice. I do love those XKRs, they are sexy as all hell. I was seriously thinking about an XKR or other Jag before buying the S600. I love the looks of Jags, I just haven't yet talked myself into owning one. After just finishing a 3,000 mile week-long road trip in the Mercedes, I think I'll be keeping it around for a while.

Just a suggestion, but have you tried a new coolant reservoir cap on the Merc? After fighting a mysterious coolant loss on mine for over a month, that's what it turned out to be. The $12 Auto Zone cap was crap, the $30 Mercedes-Benz cap works. Imagine.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I like the newer XFR/XJR models, but not enough to pay what they want for them, lol. I also don't think I could get myself to pull the trigger on a Jaguar just based on their reputation for being failure-prone.

 

[Matthew]

I look forward to seeing it on the drive into work tomorrow.


(No, we don’t work at the same place, but we do cross paths occasionally.)

 

[asicer]

Nice! However, I'm not sure why your Aston Martin DB7 has those funny cat heads on the wheels, though.

 

[ktup-flyer]

I like the newer XFR/XJR models, but not enough to pay what they want for them, lol. I also don't think I could get myself to pull the trigger on a Jaguar just based on their reputation for being failure-prone.

I would love a new F-Type R. I would not love Jaguar reliability or resale value.

 

[James331]

The last of the true jags

Is that BRG?

 

[GRG55]

cool car!

The last of the true jags

Is that BRG?

Nope. LCB (London Cab Black).

What makes a car a "true Jag"? It won't start in the rain?

 

[Bill]

Laurie came home from work today and we met for lunch, she was surprised and thrilled. This evening she drove it and decided she likes it way better than the E55, so I made a good call.

Very nice looking car, especially with the matching tinted windows! That smile says it all!

It must be nice to have a wife who likes cars. Mine has been overcome by crossover madness, I'll be surprised if she ever goes back to a sedan or coupe. When we met, she drove a Honda Prelude, but that was gone in favor of a Lexus RX300 a year after we married.

My wife still prefers sedans, and fun ones at that. She's the primary driver of our '19 Civic Si, 6sp manual. She thinks SUVs and trucks are a waste of space, money, and gas unless you have a real reason to own one. Her opinion, not mine, but hey, I have access to a fun tossable little car!

 

[mryan75]

I like your taste in automobiles. Let someone else take the depriciation and get a really cool car on the back end!

 

[Chip Sylverne]

A friend of mine has one, bought used with about the same mileage. Has had it a few years. Loves it, and has been very reliable. Most pricey mx item so far has been replacing the Pirelli's. Very nice machine.

 

[RudyP]

Cool new addition Ted - I love it!

 

[RyanShort1]

That smile looks pretty genuine!

 

[DaleB]

I would love a new F-Type R. I would not love Jaguar reliability or resale value.

Used high end luxury cars can be a really good deal. The depreciation isn't nearly as bad as buying a much lesser new car. Extended warranties are still available as long as they're not TOO old, and if you know what you're buying you can avoid the real problem children (like W12 Bentleys and the like). You get to drive amazing cars that have usually been very, very well cared for, while not spending a terrible amount of money. He's got a nice Jaguar. I've got an S-class Mercedes biturbo V12 rocket sled. My neighbor across the street bought his wife an Audi A8 L when the lease on her Genesis ran out. I'm betting none of them cost more than what a new mid-range Fusion or Accord would cost. Not bad, considering the original sticker on mine was over $139K.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I would love a new F-Type R. I would not love Jaguar reliability or resale value.

Yeah, that's why short of winning the lottery, I'd be buying one 4-5 years used. It's amazing how much high-end luxury cars like Jags/Masserati/etc take in depreciation over the first 5 years. Nothing like dropping $100K only to find out it's worth $40K in the span of half a decade.

 

[gkainz]

Lovely motah cah ... brilliant!

 

[mryan75]

Used high end luxury cars can be a really good deal. The depreciation isn't nearly as bad as buying a much lesser new car. Extended warranties are still available as long as they're not TOO old, and if you know what you're buying you can avoid the real problem children (like W12 Bentleys and the like). You get to drive amazing cars that have usually been very, very well cared for, while not spending a terrible amount of money. He's got a nice Jaguar. I've got an S-class Mercedes biturbo V12 rocket sled. My neighbor across the street bought his wife an Audi A8 L when the lease on her Genesis ran out. I'm betting none of them cost more than what a new mid-range Fusion or Accord would cost. Not bad, considering the original sticker on mine was over $139K.

I got a 2015 loaded A6 with the supercharged V6 this summer for less than the price of a new Jetta. Had 35k on it when I bought through an Audi specialty shop that gave me a 1-year warranty, and they stand behind their cars. He's been in business for 35 years. Sticker price was $65k.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Shoulda talked to Tim Mooney first....his wife has one too. That thing has caused more cussing. He replaced the complete suspension and there were engine issues.You know those British are known for quality and reliability....lol.

Look forward to more Ted Jag drama to come.....

 

[bnt83]

Sharp car! Hope it treats you well.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Used high end luxury cars can be a really good deal. The depreciation isn't nearly as bad as buying a much lesser new car. Extended warranties are still available as long as they're not TOO old, and if you know what you're buying you can avoid the real problem children (like W12 Bentleys and the like). You get to drive amazing cars that have usually been very, very well cared for, while not spending a terrible amount of money. He's got a nice Jaguar. I've got an S-class Mercedes biturbo V12 rocket sled. My neighbor across the street bought his wife an Audi A8 L when the lease on her Genesis ran out. I'm betting none of them cost more than what a new mid-range Fusion or Accord would cost. Not bad, considering the original sticker on mine was over $139K.

Not sure what you're saying here. Luxury vehicle depreciation, as a percentage, is almost universally worse than on non-luxury vehicles. If you are just saying you get a "nicer car" for the same price as a new non-luxury car, sure. I'm not sure that is really relevant other than to say you can get into a nice luxury vehicle for the same money as long as you don't mind it having 3-4 years of use on it already. Audi still has a poor reputation about maintenance/repairs being needed once they get over that 60K mark, so the mantra still seems to be "lease an Audi". I'd probably have less reservations about buying a used Audi than I would a Jaguar though, be it unfounded or not.

 

[Ted]

Pretty slick.

It must be nice to have a wife who likes cars. Mine has been overcome by crossover madness, I'll be surprised if she ever goes back to a sedan or coupe. When we met, she drove a Honda Prelude, but that was gone in favor of a Lexus RX300 a year after we married.

For me, a woman who had precisely zero interest in cars/vehicles/things that burn fuel would probably not have enough in common with me to have been a candidate for consideration. But that's just me. I also married a woman who's a much better and more experienced pilot than me.

Nice. I do love those XKRs, they are sexy as all hell. I was seriously thinking about an XKR or other Jag before buying the S600. I love the looks of Jags, I just haven't yet talked myself into owning one. After just finishing a 3,000 mile week-long road trip in the Mercedes, I think I'll be keeping it around for a while.

Just a suggestion, but have you tried a new coolant reservoir cap on the Merc? After fighting a mysterious coolant loss on mine for over a month, that's what it turned out to be. The $12 Auto Zone cap was crap, the $30 Mercedes-Benz cap works. Imagine.

The coolant disappearance is a newish phenomenon that started a couple months ago and I haven't been able to really spend much time on. I haven't tried a cap, but I have suspected the coolant reservoir.

This marks my return to Jaguar after a nearly 10-year hiatus, it does feel good to be back.

I like the newer XFR/XJR models, but not enough to pay what they want for them, lol. I also don't think I could get myself to pull the trigger on a Jaguar just based on their reputation for being failure-prone.

The reputation stems back to the early British Leyland days when things were truly awful. My 1982 XJ-S, which was a car classified by many to be a complete POS was actually quite reliable. I put 30k miles on it in one year with few issues.

I think the Jaguar stereotype is overblown (especially these days), albeit not entirely wrong. I was a Jaguar mechanic and have now also owned a BMW and a couple Mercedes. I don't think that the German marques are actually significantly better designed on the whole and have a lot of other issues. Plus they have a very German feel about them (as you'd expect), which is fine if you like that, but it's not my preference.

The Jaguars are more about the luxury car experience and sex appeal. If you look at BMWs and Mercedes, they're still cars rooted in some level of practicality - something Jaguar never was trying to do. The motto of "Grace, Pace, Space" applies. But you see differences. The seats, for example. Our German cars have leather that feels like it could hold up the entire car, and almost never rips or tears. It is also very hard. The Jaguar has thin, soft, suppulent leather. And so it doesn't last as long, but it's very nice while you have it.

Similarly the switches and buttons have a much softer action. And they break more regularly.

But if you look at things like the drivetrain, the transmission in the XKR is literally the same Mercedes box that the E55 has. The V8s had timing chain issues, which the BMW V8s of the time had (like my 740iL), and the Ford 5.4s were known for that as well (not to mention blowing spark plugs).

I worked on these cars when they were "new", mostly in the 60-100k mile range. I was surprised how few of the common issues were present on this car.

I look forward to seeing it on the drive into work tomorrow.

Pretty sure I saw you ahead of me, but I was driving a funny-looking Jaguar - it looked a lot like my Ram. And it said "Ram" on it, so you probably confused it for my Ram (if it was you).

My wife is going to drive the XKR today. I might get to drive it tomorrow.

Nice! However, I'm not sure why your Aston Martin DB7 has those funny cat heads on the wheels, though.

You know, I did look for an Aston Martin DB7 from the mid 90s. That had the Jaguar 4.0L supercharged I6 with a manual transmission (which is a better drivetrain and preferable). It was more or less a blend of the XJS at the time and what became the XK8. Unfortunately they do fetch a pretty penny and are extraordinarily rare. I found this right up the road, win win!

The last of the true jags

Is that BRG?

cool car!

Nope. LCB (London Cab Black).

What makes a car a "true Jag"? It won't start in the rain?

As GRG said, it's black.

I would agree it was the last of the true Jags. Although Ford had owned Jaguar for nearly a decade by the time it was built, the upper end Jaguars were still Jaguar designed. Many thing the V8 engine was a Ford design. It wasn't, it was a Jaguar design. I'm sure there was some technology sharing but a lot less than most people thought.

The S-type of that era was the same DEW98 chassis that the Lincoln LS used, the X-type was based on the Taurus as I recall, things like that. But by the generation following this car, the cars were basically Fords and looked and felt as such. Jaguar is now owned by Tata Motors of India, which to be honest I think has been a good thing. I think the cars they're putting out now are more what a Jaguar should be.

I like your taste in automobiles. Let someone else take the depriciation and get a really cool car on the back end!

That's basically been how I've always rolled. Upper luxury cars depreciate like bricks and, if you don't mind working on them or paying the maintenance bills, you can get quite a car for not much money. This makes "my" 8th Jaguar ("my" in quotes since it's my wife's) and I've worked on easily 50 more. The value with Jaguars has always been very high, and that is the case going back decades.

In this case, I bought what amounts to a lightly used car for about 10% of the original MSRP.

A friend of mine has one, bought used with about the same mileage. Has had it a few years. Loves it, and has been very reliable. Most pricey mx item so far has been replacing the Pirelli's. Very nice machine.

This car has low enough miles that the tires are getting low and tread and also have some cracks on them. Nothing dangerous, but I am going to get them changed out before winter. Yes, those won't be cheap. I pointed that out and he knocked the price down basically enough to cover the tires.

Shoulda talked to Tim Mooney first....his wife has one too. That thing has cause more cussing. The complete suspension was replaced and there were engine issues.

Look forward to more Ted Jag drama to come.....

Funny how many of these comments I've gotten from people who didn't know don't care that I used to be a Jaguar mechanic, or are just being *******s.

I worked on them when they were new. I know what I'm getting into.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

popcorn....ready...and she has what it needs, a great mechanic. lol

reminds me of my Sebring....I loved that car.... lol

 

[tonycondon]

is it as loud as the Mercedes? Used to be able to hear Laurie coming 1/2 mile away!

 

[Ted]

is it as loud as the Mercedes? Used to be able to hear Laurie coming 1/2 mile away!

Right now it purrs and roars properly like a Jaguar should.

However, I can fix that.

 

[DaleB]

Not sure what you're saying here. Luxury vehicle depreciation, as a percentage, is almost universally worse than on non-luxury vehicles. If you are just saying you get a "nicer car" for the same price as a new non-luxury car, sure. I'm not sure that is really relevant other than to say you can get into a nice luxury vehicle for the same money as long as you don't mind it having 3-4 years of use on it already. Audi still has a poor reputation about maintenance/repairs being needed once they get over that 60K mark, so the mantra still seems to be "lease an Audi". I'd probably have less reservations about buying a used Audi than I would a Jaguar though, be it unfounded or not.

Depreciation on NEW luxury vehicles is brutal, to be sure. Depreciation on used luxury vehicles isn't nearly as bad. If you shop and buy carefully, you can end up with a vehicle that's been maintained to like-new standards. And no, I don't mind at all letting someone else take that first couple of years of insane depreciation.

My wife's Volvo XC60 was less than a full year old when I bought it, and had under 10K miles on it. Virtually nothing on the car looked or felt "used". It shaved over $15K off the original new price, and she ended up with a much nicer vehicle than she would have if we'd have been looking at new ones.

I'll take a 10 year old high end Mercedes (or BMW, or Jag, etc.) over a new mid-pack car for comfort, performance, and overall value. But, obviously some people are not going to look at "used cars", and will buy or lease new. That's fine; I've bought several new vehicles over the years. The last one was in 2011, and I still have that F150 (it's actually slightly increased in value over the past year). But after that -- I don't even look at new cars, period. The value just isn't there for me. Anything I buy from here on out will be at least a year or two old; the Mercedes' replacement will be older than that because it takes several years for a new car like I've become accustomed to, to drop down into the price range where I'm a buyer.

 

[Ted]

But after that -- I don't even look at new cars, period. The value just isn't there for me.

Agree 100% for cars, especially since I tend to like upper luxury cars. The Ram was one of the few cases where new made sense.

 

[Matthew]

Pretty sure I saw you ahead of me, but I was driving a funny-looking Jaguar - it looked a lot like my Ram. And it said "Ram" on it, so you probably confused it for my Ram (if it was you).

I was following the first rule of Italian driving, "What's behind me is not important."

 

[Ted]

I was following the first rule of Italian driving, "What's behind me is not important."

You really should trade in your Subaru then. Something like this seems appropriate for you:

 

[Gerhardt]

You're both so spoiled.

 

[charheep]

I have heard horror stories about high end BMW's. Are those to scare off people like me? I can wrench, but my time to do so is getting less and less. I love 7 series BMW's and M5's, but after reading that you need to replace the rod end bearings every 75k miles on the M5's, I think I will pass on those.

While I appreciate other high end cars, BMW's are my weakness and only focus on those. But driving a 12 year old Toyota Sequoia without any worry does have its benefits over a 7 series or X5 and worrying what that noise is and how much.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I have heard horror stories about high end BMW's. Are those to scare off people like me? I can wrench, but my time to do so is getting less and less. I love 7 series BMW's and M5's, but after reading that you need to replace the rod end bearings every 75k miles on the M5's, I think I will pass on those.

While I appreciate other high end cars, BMW's are my weakness and only focus on those. But driving a 12 year old Toyota Sequoia without any worry does have its benefits over a 7 series or X5 and worrying what that noise is and how much.

been there done it......the rod bearing replacement and vanos pump in an 06 M5.....run, run very fast away from them.

If I were a better Dad....I woulda said no to my son.....but, he bought it....and I'm a sucker for helping him.

 

[Ted]

I have heard horror stories about high end BMW's. Are those to scare off people like me? I can wrench, but my time to do so is getting less and less. I love 7 series BMW's and M5's, but after reading that you need to replace the rod end bearings every 75k miles on the M5's, I think I will pass on those.

While I appreciate other high end cars, BMW's are my weakness and only focus on those. But driving a 12 year old Toyota Sequoia without any worry does have its benefits over a 7 series or X5 and worrying what that noise is and how much.

been there done it......the rod bearing replacement and vanos pump in an 06 M5.....run, run very fast away from them.

If I were a better Dad....I woulda said no to my son.....but, he bought it....and I'm a sucker for helping him.

Having owned a couple of BMWs, my general impression is that the engines are varying degrees of crap. The Z4's engine was decent, but that's because it was the standard 3.0L and only had 110-125k miles on it in the time I had it. The 740iL I bought with 140k miles and the timing chains and tensioners were bad, valley pan leaking, new water pump let the fan loose which went through the radiator. The 5 series is basically the same as the 7 series and while nice driving cars, I wouldn't want one again.

That said, if you can wrench they're not bad to wrench on. With any of these it depends on how much you're capable of doing and how much you want to do.

 

[FastEddieB]

Nice car. Enjoy!

That said, my ex-wife had a “thing” for Jaguars. We owned two, both bought lightly used, a 1985 XJ6 and a 2000 XJR. She got the latter in the divorce, which was more than OK with me. With the possible exception of my 1966 MG Midget, they had substantially more mechanical issues than any other cars I’ve owned, and I’d never consider another.

But if one goes in with open eyes, more power to them!

 

[DaleB]

I have heard horror stories about high end BMW's. Are those to scare off people like me? I can wrench, but my time to do so is getting less and less. I love 7 series BMW's and M5's, but after reading that you need to replace the rod end bearings every 75k miles on the M5's, I think I will pass on those.

While I appreciate other high end cars, BMW's are my weakness and only focus on those. But driving a 12 year old Toyota Sequoia without any worry does have its benefits over a 7 series or X5 and worrying what that noise is and how much.

I've heard horror stories about high end Mercedes as well. I generally think extended warranties are a bad deal, but there are exceptions -- notably V12 Mercs and some BMWs, among others. Pu tit this way: I wouldn't buy one for my F150, period. I wish I'd bought one for the Mercedes, but really only so that I could have had someone else do the work that's been required so far. I've only spent about half what the warranty would have cost me, but I've also spent a several hours under the hood and under the car. Thank the car gods I was able to find a place locally that rents service bays with lifts by the hour.

It really, really pays off to do your research ahead of time and know which years, models, and engines are more likely to cause you problems.

 

[jsstevens]

You really should trade in your Subaru then. Something like this seems appropriate for you:

No. Just no.

 

[Ted]

Nice car. Enjoy!

That said, my ex-wife had a “thing” for Jaguars. We owned two, both bought lightly used, a 1985 XJ6 and a 2000 XJR. She got the latter in the divorce, which was more than OK with me. With the possible exception of my 1966 MG Midget, they had substantially more mechanical issues than any other cars I’ve owned, and I’d never consider another.

But if one goes in with open eyes, more power to them!

Since I cut my teeth on Jaguars I may just be used to their peculiarities and thus not mind their level of issues. But I worked on both of those car types you mentioned a good but, and from my work on other upper luxury cars of the era that were comparable, I suppose I haven't seen the Jaguars be hugely worse. We never did major work on the engine of Series 3 XJ6 (like your '85) for instance, although we did routinely rebuild the BW66 transmissions in them. The rear axles on them were very strong.

Issues we worked on? Varying electrical and running issues mostly. Water pumps, overheating, air conditioning... lot of air conditioning...

The XJ/K 8/Rs we saw more of. Transmissions were "sealed for life" and went out at 100k pretty regularly if not serviced. The non-R versions had the ZF 5HP30 and we had a few of those we did. Mostly electrical issues on those, too, and then we had the occasional coil-on-plug go inop. Various switches not working on them anymore and needing to get replaced.

I did way more work on my BMW 740iL than on any of those Jaguars. But like I said, it may just be because I cut my teeth on them, and this car may be a maintenance nightmare.