Bonanza V-Tail or Mooney M20x or ??

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Jorge Gonzalez

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Jorge0272
Hey all, I am looking at purchasing an airplane. Trying to decide on what to get.
Price is about $75K. Wife wants a Cessna 310, but the insurance will eat me alive the first few years. No one anywhere with 100 miles of me rents a twin or anything decent. Only C172 for rent near me. I am an A/P, so I can do quite a bit of the maintenance.
Must have Requirements:
- Speed - 150KTS+
- UL - 700 (After full fuel)
- Retract Gear (for no reason other that I just think its cool)

What is out there that fits this?
V-Tail N35 (I have time in one. Great plane and probably at the top of the list.
Mooney M20x?
Commander 112A (reviews are not that great and the 114 is way up there)
Bellanca Super Viking?
Piper Comanche? (Prices seems to be crazy)
 
PA-32R. Wife sees the huge cabin, the deal is done. Gonna be more than 75K, though. I don't know there's anything meeting your requirements for that price. Anything airworthy, that is.
 
If you find a decent Bo for $75K don’t tell anyone until you buy it! I think you need 2X that budget IMO to source a Bo.


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Jorge Gonzalez said:
Must have Requirements:
- Retract Gear (for no reason other that I just think its cool)
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When I was shopping for a plane I had that same requirement and for the same reason :cool:

Re: suggested models
- I'm biased but I personally would take 13 knots less and join us in the Piper Arrow club. It's an affordable retract both in purchase price and operating cost (9-10gph and useful load of around 700lbs with max fuel).
- Stretching the budget and getting a Comanche would be 2nd choice simply because.... Comanche...
- Not too many Bonanzas listed at that price point, I'd be really thorough on inspecting any listed that cheap
- No knowledge on the other models you propose...
 
NH_Moose said:
If you find a decent Bo for $75K don’t tell anyone until you buy it! I think you need 2X that budget IMO to source a Bo.

I have seen a few. I have plenty of time to look. The N35 I used to fly, I actually purchased last year, but with a few other guys. I moved out of state so I sold them my share. We did get it at a good price. Actually $75K with 450SMOH. They pop up here and there.

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ArrowFlyer86 said:
When I was shopping for a plane I had that same requirement and for the same reason :cool:

Re: suggested models
- I'm biased but I personally would take 13 knots less and join us in the Piper Arrow club. It's an affordable retract both in purchase price and operating cost (9-10gph and useful load of around 700lbs with max fuel).
- Stretching the budget and getting a Comanche would be 2nd choice simply because.... Comanche...
- Not too many Bonanzas listed at that price point, I'd be really thorough on inspecting any listed that cheap
- No knowledge on the other models you propose...
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An Arrow would be nice, but I have yet to see an Arrow under $100K in decent condition and for those prices, it better be 160KTS.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
I think you need a lot more than $75k these days to buy a nice plane.
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Budget can be raised. I am more looking at what aircraft meets my requirements? What is a good airplane with those requirements?
Bonanza V-Tail
Bellance Super Viking
Piper Comanche
Mooney M20x
Piper Arrow (Meets all except speed)
Rockwell Commander 112A
Any other to look at?
 
You won't find a 310 for 75K. I have seen a few, some with high time engines, so need to add another $90K and some that will require top to bottom inspection, because there probably is something wrong.
 
I would raise the budget for the 310, but I am unable to get any ME training any where near me and the insurance will cost upwards of $10K a year IF they even insure me.
 
Jorge Gonzalez said:
Budget can be raised. I am more looking at what aircraft meets my requirements? What is a good airplane with those requirements?
Bonanza V-Tail
Bellance Super Viking
Piper Comanche
Mooney M20x
Piper Arrow (Meets all except speed)
Rockwell Commander 112A
Any other to look at?
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Few Mooneys can carry 700lbs plus full fuel, they have large enough tanks to stay in the air for 8 hours. They’re also not very roomy (think Porsche 911, not SUV).
 
Not looking for a V35B. Looking at 1962 and below. I see them all day for under $100K.
For the Mooney, yeah that is what I hear. Have yet to sit in one. Trying to find someone anywhere even close to me that will let me sit in it.
 
honestly a mooney E or F comes pretty darn close to what you're looking for.
 
Average numbers, yes, they do. Those numbers due tend to shrink as time goes by.
Seems the Bonanza V-Tail is 1st on the list and the Mooney will be 2nd unless I hit the jackpot and find a 310 with low time engines that flies regularly. :D
 
In my experience, Mooney owners always compare their airplanes to Bonanzas. Bonanza owners never compare their airplanes to Mooneys.

Bonanzas are the Cadillacs of small airplanes. Mooneys are the MGBs.

If you find a Viking, try sitting in the back seats. You probably won't enjoy it. A Comanche is worth considering. Arrow is a great training airplane, but too slow and not enough useful load.
 
Just a thought but what about a Debonair? they are usually better priced than a Bonanza (though not 75k for a nice one) and fill the same shoes so to speak if they are the later models I believe ....
 
You should have heard the Bo driver I was instructed to follow at KSAT, after I said I have the Cherokee to follow in sight…
 
The Commander 112A will see 130kts all day. Plenty of room and a pleasure to fly. Would every 112 owner want more power? Absolutely.

Not sure what the 114 will true out at. FYI, you’re not buying a 112 for 75k and you sure as hell won’t find a flying 114 for 75k.
 
Jorge Gonzalez said:
Budget can be raised. I am more looking at what aircraft meets my requirements? What is a good airplane with those requirements?
Bonanza V-Tail
Bellance Super Viking
Piper Comanche
Mooney M20x
Piper Arrow (Meets all except speed)
Rockwell Commander 112A
Any other to look at?
Click to expand...

If you are an A&P and can do much of the maintenance, an early 210 might fit the bill. About 150-155 true on less than 13 gph. You don't mention your experience flying, but you'd need a reasonable amount of complex high performance time to be insurable in that (or any of the others, but the 210 is probably the worst as far as insurance). And you'll need access to a hydraulic mule for gear swings.

Super Viking is cool because of how it's made - but it has wooden wings and fabric covered fuselage and control surfaces, so it's a bit of an anomaly. Cheap to acquire however. Flies nicely and distinctly.

Mooney's I find a bit tight, but they sure are efficient. Older ones might fit in your budget and do around 150 kts. Doubt it'll make your useful load criterion.

Old V-Tails are fairly cheap, but of course you have to know that the ruddervaters are good since they are made from unobtanium. E-series engines up to some point, so parts might be an issue though enough were made and seem to be flying to provide support.

Comanche is the Cadillac of Pipers. Well built and pretty much meet your criteria. The 260 is the sweet spot IMHO.

Arrows are retractable Cherokees. Only the turbos are fast-ish and then only up high in the thin air. Not a Cherokee person myself.

Rockwell Commanders won't meet your speed criterion again unless it's a turbo flown high.

The 310 is a great machine. Will be expensive to restore, maintain, and run. If no multi time I'm guessing way above 10k first year after getting the rating at ATP. Mentor pilot for some hours, probably 25 these days.

Have flown each aircraft listed for varying amounts of hours, so these are just my observations and could be completely at odds with the net consensus.

Suspect you might be best served by a 182 unless you really go far fairly often. Fantastic airplane that just doesn't go all that fast. In reality you'll need to budget more like 125k to get in the game unless you want to restore something before you fly it. Which is fun, but guessing family might object!
 
I know the Commander 114 is no where near the price range. The 112 is probably underpowered for my needs. West SoCal, so I need to get to 8K quick to get over some mountains from my home airport which is at 4000’.
As of now, I believe the V-Tail is going to be the best bet with the Mooney right behind it.
I am a low time pilot. 160 hours. 10 are high performance/complex.
 
A turbo 210 is an amazing climber, with tons of space. Will need a larger budget though.
 
I’d look at Comanches, just my opinion based on what follows.

Bonanzas have 1940s style ergonomics, you reach down to your right calf to adjust the throttle etc and if you’re tall you might need to roll your head 30 degrees right to clear the roof. They fly nicely but depending on how you’re built those can be issues.

Mooney flight controls are akin to driving a school bus, from the back of the bus in terms of visibility and they don’t feel even remotely sporty. Very heavy to maneuver. Try one before you buy one, and not just on the ground. They are very efficient and practical, a wonderful design for going places economically but they are a point and shoot plane, not a visceral thing to fly.

I would love to love both of those, many people do, but they’re not for me. Comanches meanwhile have lots of room, they’re a little slower but they don’t have weird ergonomics except for the panel layout (like anything else of that age), they have practical engines and they fly pretty nicely.
 
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Tusayan said:
Mooney flight controls are akin to driving a school bus, from the back of the bus in terms of visibility and they don’t feel even remotely sporty. Very heavy to maneuver. Try one before you buy one, and not just on the ground. They are very efficient and practical, a wonderful design for going places economically but they are a point and shoot plane, not a visceral thing to fly.
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To be specific, Mooneys have springs/weights on the elevators to center them when hands off, so that’s the heavy feeling, they also have wider wingspan which reduces roll rate…combined they make a Mooney very stable in IFR/turbulent conditions.
The seating position is low with your legs outstretched like sitting in a sports car, some don’t like feeling and prefer more SUV upright position. If you have shorter legs, you’ll be closer to the instrument panel than might like, there’s pedal extensions to fix this issue. They also have a compass hanging from center support which I hated and replaced it with a panel mounted one. And then there’s the low wing…all of which gives you the feeling of reduced visibility.

And if you do a search you’ll find lots of B vs M videos.

Also the Mooney gear is robust but they are difficult to make silky smooth landings due to the lack of travel. Also they can be touchy when doing stalls, you can’t manhandle them like most trainer aircraft (Cessnas, Pipers).
Also, when landing a Mooney they require precise speed control, if you come in too fast they’ll float forever and you’ll end up trying to force them on the ground which is a cardinal sin. You’ll need a experienced Mooney CFI to do the transition training.
 
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Later small engine Mooney can do the useful load, but not in your price range.

My 252/Encore will hold about 70 gallons for 700 pounds remaining. And, while requiring O2, 175 KTAS on 10.3 GPH is very nice.

I have the Monroy tanks, so full fuel is 104 gallons, but enough for 8 hours with reserves.

I like the seating position, but have owned sporty type cars pretty much all my life. They are not light on the controls, but they are responsive, like a car without power steering.

But a lot more than your price range. However, read a lot of threads and many point out, the cost to buy is a fraction of the overall cost over the life of ownership.
 
BTW, if you think you want to upgrade, B, M, C, and P brands will always be first to be approved…some of the others you listed may never see approvals
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
In my experience, Mooney owners always compare their airplanes to Bonanzas. Bonanza owners never compare their airplanes to Mooneys.
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I flew with a friend two days ago in his V-tail Bo. Lots of thermals, and that damned thing was tail wagging the whole damned time, almost sickening at times. And the low seat combined with the tall panel made me feel like a toad sitting in a hole, and I'm 6'2" and long of torso. Thirdly, the venting didn't seem to be anywhere sufficient, it was about 80F outside and damned hot inside that airplane.

So yes, a Mooney doesn't compare to a Bo, and for that I'm thankful.
 
Bill said:
I flew with a friend two days ago in his V-tail Bo. Lots of thermals, and that damned thing was tail wagging the whole damned time, almost sickening at times. And the low seat combined with the tall panel made me feel like a toad sitting in a hole, and I'm 6'2" and long of torso. Thirdly, the venting didn't seem to be anywhere sufficient, it was about 80F outside and damned hot inside that airplane.

So yes, a Mooney doesn't compare to a Bo, and for that I'm thankful.
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Which is why the V tail pilots love the GFC 500 yaw damper, and consider it a must have.
 
Somehow or other you need to actually fly in an example of the types you're considering. With your wife if possible. I have about 1,000 hours in Mooneys, but no longer have one so no dog in the M/B fight. However, I have given many pilots their first rides in a Mooney. Every one was pleasantly surprised with both the room and the handling. Don't drop $75+K on anything you haven't checked out yourself.
 
my first ride in any Beechcraft was after I signed the check for the V-tail....no regrets.
 
What would be a good price range to be looking in, based on what the OP is looking for? Maybe that would steer the conversation a bit.
Vtail
Comanche
Mooney
S Viking
310
 
You won't get it for 75K but a 182RG or a TR182 would fit the bill from a performance and load perspective.
 
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