Bogus invoice from KSMO

Dav8or

Dav8or

Final Approach
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
5,174
Location
Discovery Bay, CA
Display Name
Display name:
Dave
Anybody else ever get an invoice for a landing at Santa Monica that they never made? I just received an invoice from Vector Airport Systems claiming that my airplane made a landing at KSMO on 1/7/20 and the reality is, my airplane has never been to that airport in the last 10 1/2 years I've owned it. It's never been to any airport in the LA area since I've owned it.

Obviously it's an error, but my question is, has anyone here successfully disputed this crap and how did you go about proving their error? How do they collect the N numbers for invoicing? Visually with binoculars? ATC records? I'm wondering how my tail number got in their system. The bill is only $10.96, but I really, really don't want to pay it.

Thanks for the help!
 
So don't pay it. Send them a letter telling them you've never been to that airport, and neither has your airplane, and if they feel otherwise they'll have to come with proof -- which they obviously cannot, since you've never been there and neither has your airplane. Tell them to either produce actual proof, like your signature or a time-stamped photo of your airplane sitting on the ramp, or stop bothering you.
 
Don’t pay it, you’re not obligated too if you or the airplane didn’t go there.
 
This is common for toll road enforcement where automated systems read license plates and send you a bill. Many people have gotten major run-arounds trying to dismiss the fine only to get multiple additional notices. Give them a call and tell them to provide proof showing both the tail number and make/model.
 
dreyna14 said:
This is common for toll road enforcement where automated systems read license plates and send you a bill. Many people have gotten major run-arounds trying to dismiss the fine only to get multiple additional notices. Give them a call and tell them to provide proof showing both the tail number and make/model.
Click to expand...

Do this now... don't wait. Otherwise you're going to open up a can of aggravation...
 
Since they've pretty much cut off funding, it's a desperate move to stay afloat.
 
Probably someone with ADSB used your tail number, I would sign up with FlightAware. You can create an alert every time your plane or someone pretending to be you goes flying. With a little sleuthing, you can figure out the culprit.
 
I got a bill from KSEA for a landing fee once, based on getting a pick up clearance south of Olympia to shoot an approach into KPAE. I called and they reversed it, but it was a bit annoying as I have never landed at KSEA and can't imagine why I would.
 
Dav8or said:
Anybody else ever get an invoice for a landing at Santa Monica that they never made? I just received an invoice from Vector Airport Systems claiming that my airplane made a landing at KSMO on 1/7/20 and the reality is, my airplane has never been to that airport in the last 10 1/2 years I've owned it. It's never been to any airport in the LA area since I've owned it.

Obviously it's an error, but my question is, has anyone here successfully disputed this crap and how did you go about proving their error? How do they collect the N numbers for invoicing? Visually with binoculars? ATC records? I'm wondering how my tail number got in their system. The bill is only $10.96, but I really, really don't want to pay it.

Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...

KISP (Mac Arthur Islip on Long Island) uses Vector to collect landing fees. Vector is error prone but will remove a questionable charge if you call them up...at least that has been my experience. Their phone number is on the invoice.

Dave
 
Dav8or said:
Anybody else ever get an invoice for a landing at Santa Monica that they never made? I just received an invoice from Vector Airport Systems claiming that my airplane made a landing at KSMO on 1/7/20 and the reality is, my airplane has never been to that airport in the last 10 1/2 years I've owned it. It's never been to any airport in the LA area since I've owned it.

Obviously it's an error, but my question is, has anyone here successfully disputed this crap and how did you go about proving their error? How do they collect the N numbers for invoicing? Visually with binoculars? ATC records? I'm wondering how my tail number got in their system. The bill is only $10.96, but I really, really don't want to pay it.

Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...
This topic was actually discussed in a column in the latest Plane&Pilot and KSMO was one of the airports they discussed. Vector more or less admitted their system isn't perfect.
 
Dav8or said:
Anybody else ever get an invoice for a landing at Santa Monica that they never made? I just received an invoice from Vector Airport Systems claiming that my airplane made a landing at KSMO on 1/7/20 and the reality is, my airplane has never been to that airport in the last 10 1/2 years I've owned it. It's never been to any airport in the LA area since I've owned it.

Obviously it's an error, but my question is, has anyone here successfully disputed this crap and how did you go about proving their error? How do they collect the N numbers for invoicing? Visually with binoculars? ATC records? I'm wondering how my tail number got in their system. The bill is only $10.96, but I really, really don't want to pay it.

Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...
Wouldnt ADSB be your friend on this?
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Probably someone with ADSB used your tail number, I would sign up with FlightAware. You can create an alert every time your plane or someone pretending to be you goes flying. With a little sleuthing, you can figure out the culprit.
Click to expand...

I thought they used ground photos and machine vision?
 
I received two erroneous SMO bills from Vector, one time I was charged for two landings when I'd made only one, (also, the weight listed was nearly double the AUW of my plane.) The other was for a day I was nowhere near SMO. Both times I gave them a call and the issue was resolved within a minute. Both people were very pleasant and apologized for the error.
 
Thanks all for the replies. I tried to call them today but didn't realize they were on the east coast, so missed their hours by an hour. I will call tomorrow and see how it goes...
 
This error seems to happen regularly. It would be nice if AOPA made it mandatory for Vector to show proof before they bill someone.
 
JonH said:
I thought they used ground photos and machine vision?
Click to expand...

They might, I figure ADSB would be cheaper and easier.
With license plates, they are standardized, but tail numbers can be different colors, not to mention older planes with 2” numbers vs 12”.
 
My plane has 2” N-numbers and Vector bills me everywhere from SMO to HTO, I’m thinking they use ADS-B by now.
 
steingar said:
If it isn't sent certified I didn't get it.
Click to expand...
That excuse may not fly for much longer. I suspect the USPS is imaging every piece of mail delivered now. I know I get a daily email (just got it this morning, in fact) with an image of everything that's getting delivered that day. You have to sign up for the emails, but I suspect they're imaging all of it.
 
DaleB said:
That excuse may not fly for much longer. I suspect the USPS is imaging every piece of mail delivered now. I know I get a daily email (just got it this morning, in fact) with an image of everything that's getting delivered that day. You have to sign up for the emails, but I suspect they're imaging all of it.
Click to expand...
Got stolen off my front porch. Big problem in my neighborhood.
 
What recourse would they have if you didn't pay? Even if you did owe it? They're not going to sue you or send you to collections over $10.
 
Jim K said:
What recourse would they have if you didn't pay? Even if you did owe it? They're not going to sue you or send you to collections over $10.
Click to expand...
On the extreme end they could put a lien on your airplane. Would they go to that trouble, doubt it.
 
Grum.Man said:
On the extreme end they could put a lien on your airplane. Would they go to that trouble, doubt it.
Click to expand...

I'm not totally upon my California rules, but I don't think there's any conceivable way to put a lien on the plane without first obtaining a judgment. So they have to sue you, win and record the judgment with the FAA. I doubt it can qualify as any sort of mechanic's/artisans/materialman's lien.
 
Jim K said:
What recourse would they have if you didn't pay? Even if you did owe it? They're not going to sue you or send you to collections over $10.
Click to expand...
Depends on the state law and the contract with the city/airport.

The toll roads on the DC Beltway are run by a private company. Originally, under state law, non-payment would result in an invoice, a charge, and a service charge, with penalties if not paid by a certain time. Some of the penalties reached into the thousands of dollars - for a $2-$3 toll that was missed. They got sued and the state finally changed the law to reduce the allowable penalty.

So, yeah, they might well send it to collections.

https://www.courthousenews.com/dc-toll-operators-are-scamming-drivers-say/
 
If an invoice for a few dollars generated in error gets you this jack up you are in for a real treat when you have a health issue an deal with hospitals and insurance companies. Stop your whining.
 
Clip4 said:
If an invoice for a few dollars generated in error gets you this jack up you are in for a real treat when you have a health issue an deal with hospitals and insurance companies. Stop your whining.
Click to expand...
Am I whining? Is that what I'm doing? Would you just pay them their $10? Is that what you would do?
 
Dav8or said:
Obviously it's an error, but my question is, has anyone here successfully disputed this crap and how did you go about proving their error? How do they collect the N numbers for invoicing? Visually with binoculars? ATC records? I'm wondering how my tail number got in their system.
Click to expand...
Explanation here:

https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/pilots-report-bogus-landing-fee-charges-based-on-ads-b-data

We reached out to Vector for comment, and company president Pete Coleton directly addressed the flight in question, writing that, "In the case of the fee charged to Wendy Lessig, it appears as though her flight pattern and profile was very similar to what an aircraft performing a touch & go operation would look like and this caused our system to produce a billable activity in error." Coleton continued that, "I understand she was able to contact our live PlanePass billing team and the error was quickly corrected. I already have my team looking into this case to identify a system refinement and plan to follow up with Wendy."
Click to expand...
 
Dav8or said:
Am I whining? Is that what I'm doing? Would you just pay them their $10? Is that what you would do?
Click to expand...
I’d just write them al letter with the invoice. Ranting about the injustice on the internet is whining.
 
Dav8or said:
Am I whining? Is that what I'm doing? Would you just pay them their $10? Is that what you would do?
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s doing this sort of thing himself. It would fit with his other actions.

just randomly send bills to aircraft owners. They’re all rich, they’ll just pay it. Getting upset makes you a silly whiner. Even if you were never there. Expecting people to be honest is silly.
 
Clip4 said:
If an invoice for a few dollars generated in error gets you this jack up you are in for a real treat when you have a health issue an deal with hospitals and insurance companies. Stop your whining.
Click to expand...
@Clip4 i can’t help but notice you criticize anytime someone mentions fees. Were your parents killed by fees when you were a child?
 
dreyna14 said:
This is common for toll road enforcement where automated systems read license plates and send you a bill. Many people have gotten major run-arounds trying to dismiss the fine only to get multiple additional notices. Give them a call and tell them to provide proof showing both the tail number and make/model.
Click to expand...

It may not work the first time, but stick to your guns. I received a $25.25 demand letter for a $0.25 toll on the New Jersey Turnpike. Trouble was, the photo they took clearly showed my license plate number (the state was not legible) on a BMW. My plate was registered to a Ford Taurus. It took close to a year to get a Supervisor to look at the copy of the registration I sent them,and at their photo to agree to release the charges. Bastiges!

-Skip
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top