Boeing’s on a streak...

TCABM said:
I have a hard time seeing this as a manufacturing defect.
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BOEING!!!! BOEING!!!! BOEING!!!!

That's all that is required to almost guarantee a guilty verdict. (Only thing more ironclad would be if it had happened to a United flight.)
 
Eh. They kinda earned it, so I can't feel badly about. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.

Also interesting that it's the whole company. I remember the DC-10 problems, and that didn't become a McDD thing, it was just a DC-10 thing. Then on the other hand, that was a maintenance problem, if I remember correctly, not a manufacturing problem, and I don't remember that companies management being exposed as covering it up. Similar with the Pinto. That was a Pinto thing, not a Ford thing, even if they did know about the problems. I was in grade school at the time, though, so not sure about any of the facts.
 
AviationObserver said:
And the hits just keep on a comin'


www.seattletimes.com

Boeing 787 employees falsified inspection records; FAA opens probe

The FAA has opened a new investigation into a potential manufacturing quality lapse on Boeing's 787 Dreamliner and whether inspection records were falsified.
www.seattletimes.com www.seattletimes.com

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Can you imagine how it must feel to be an astronaut strapped into a Boeing spacecraft this evening after seeing this story today? :eek:
 
Okay, this isn't really breaking, exclusive news...there's been a NPRM for an AD for about two months now and the Daily Mail just discovered it. Don't know if an AD has been published yet. Perhaps a bit of over-hyping from the press on this one?

www.dailymail.co.uk

300 Boeing planes could have potentially fatal fault

The FAA warned Boeing that improper electrical grounding on its 777 could result in 'fire or explosion' mere months, according to a notice first reported by DailyMail.com
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

 
AviationObserver said:
Okay, this isn't really breaking, exclusive news...there's been a NPRM for an AD for about two months now and the Daily Mail just discovered it. Don't know if an AD has been published yet. Perhaps a bit of over-hyping from the press on this one?

www.dailymail.co.uk

300 Boeing planes could have potentially fatal fault

The FAA warned Boeing that improper electrical grounding on its 777 could result in 'fire or explosion' mere months, according to a notice first reported by DailyMail.com
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

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The way I read it, Boeing has already implemented the fix on affected aircraft.
 
Auto throttle disengaged on takeoff

news.sky.com

'Serious' software glitch meant plane taking off from Bristol barely cleared the runway

The jet - carrying 163 passengers and six crew members, only managed to take to the sky with 260m (853ft) of runway remaining, and passed over the nearby A38 at a height of under 30m (100ft).
news.sky.com news.sky.com

Boeing told investigators that the auto-throttle system on their 737 Next Generation jets had a "long history of nuisance disconnects during take-off mode engagements" - but that, when investigated, "usually, subsequent functionality checks on the system find no faults".
 
Sounds like the pilots ****ed up.

Auto throttles are nice when they work and help reduce workload. They are not required to operate the airplane and it’s standard procedure to verify thrust is set very early in the takeoff roll and if not set correctly to intervene.

Sounds like these guys trusted the computer and went for a ride.
 
Prolly listen to the CVR and hear one of the pilots say, "what's it doing now?" :eek:
 
Hopefully, this is just a one-off and not indicative of yet more design or mfg issues...

www.avweb.com

'Dutch Roll' Incident Prompts FAA/NTSB Investigation - AVweb

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) are investigating yet another alarming incident in which a Boeing 737 MAX 8 experienced a ‘Dutch roll’ at roughly 32,000 feet —a rare phenomenon when the aircraft rolls in one direction and yaws in the...
www.avweb.com www.avweb.com

AIN Notices Report

www.asias.faa.gov www.asias.faa.gov
 
StraightnLevel said:
Reading that, I have to ask myself why the pilot flying didn’t abort the takeoff.
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No need to abort. Just set takeoff thrust, like you're supposed to do.

I have ~5,400 hours in 737s, both the NG and the MAX. I don't say that to invoke the appeal-to-authority fallacy, but to say that, in that time, I've never had the autothrottles fail when setting TO thrust. It isn't something that happens often. When it does, it's likely because the flying pilot didn't hit one of the TOGA buttons as he is supposed to do.

Normal procedure is for the flying pilot to advance the thrust levers to 40% N1 until both engines have spooled. From there, advance to about 70% N1 before engaging the autothrottles by pressing one of the TOGA buttons. One TOGA button is located on each thrust lever. The autothrust system then sets the scheduled takeoff thrust.

The pilot monitoring verifies that the autothrust system is activated, by verifying [N1] is displayed on the FMA, and that takeoff thrust is set, -0.0%/+1.0%. If it isn't, the PM trims the thrust levers to set takeoff thrust. You don't reject the takeoff unless the PM is unable to set takeoff thrust.

At ~90kts, the autothrust system goes into [ARM] mode until reaching acceleration altitude. While in [ARM], the autothrottles will not move the thrust levels so that a failure can not cause a loss of thrust during takeoff. They reengage, [N1], at accelleration altitude and set climb thrust.
 
Boeing's troubles have now extended into space. :oops:

techcrunch.com

Boeing’s Starliner capsule took astronauts to space — now it needs to bring them back | TechCrunch

The delays are not over for Boeing’s Starliner capsule. After years of delays, the aerospace giant finally launched the spacecraft earlier this month, but
techcrunch.com techcrunch.com

The delays are not over for Boeing’s Starliner capsule. After years of delays, the aerospace giant finally launched the spacecraft earlier this month, but the two-person crew will spend more than double the planned amount of time in space due to continuing technical issues on orbit.​
​
On Tuesday, NASA and Boeing officials confirmed that spaceflight veterans Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams will now return to Earth on June 26, instead of the originally planned date of June 14. In other words, they’ll be spending at least 20 days on board the International Space Station (ISS) instead of just eight.​
​
The delay is to “give our team a little bit more time to look at the data, do some analyses and make sure we’re really ready to come home,” NASA official Steve Stich said during a news conference Tuesday.​
​
Engineers will continue to take a hard look at the technical problems Starliner has encountered so far during this demonstration mission, including persistent helium leaks in the propulsion system and several thrusters that stopped working when the capsule was in the final phase of rendezvousing with the ISS....​
 
How embarrasing if they need to be rescued by Space-X.

Here's some more news -- not new -- that DOJ prosecutors have recommended criminal charges against Boeing. Probably happened over a month ago, but is being leaked now. Perhaps the main item is that DOJ will decide by July 7 on charges.

After reading the article, it sounds like charges are unlikely, if nothing else because of Boeing's involvement with DoD contracts. Time will tell.


Also, just heard that Boeing is proposing to use company stock to buy back Spirit Aerosystems.
 
Starliner and her crew still stuck in orbit last I checked. For sure I’d rather they have to land in Kazakistan than end in a fiery streak across the sky, but the Boeing death watch is morbidly fascinating. Who knows, maybe Elon will try and buy them
 
DOJ is pushing Boeing to accept a plea deal regarding the 737 MAX crashes -- as the company has violated it's prior agreement with DOJ. This would include placing an independent monitor at the company to observe compliance (or lack thereof) with changes going forward.

Or, Boeing can choose to fight the felony charges in court. This isn't settled yet, and these aren't official announcements from DOJ, but this is the way it appears to be headed.

apnews.com

US wants Boeing to plead guilty to fraud over fatal crashes, lawyers say

The U.S. Justice Department plans to propose that Boeing plead guilty to criminal fraud in connection with two deadly plane crashes involving its 737 Max jetliners.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
I would predict they take any deal offered, based on my wild guess that as bad as things seem now, with further investigation and discovery they'd get worse. Like pulling on the yarn of a warn 20 year old sweater. But I'm just guessing.
 
The judge still has to approve it, though, over objections from the families. Stay tuned.
 
Half Fast said:
The judge still has to approve it, though, over objections from the families. Stay tuned.
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Yes, although if Boeing is willing to plead guilty, that just tells me they do not fancy their chances at a trial. I doubt they are pleading out just to avoid a trial they think they can win (a move sometimes to avoid the spectacle and cost of a trial) considering this can have ramifications on their defense contracts.

My guess is either way, Boeing comes out of this guilty of criminal charges. Boeing is in heavy damage control mode.
 
AKiss20 said:
Yes, although if Boeing is willing to plead guilty, that just tells me they do not fancy their chances at a trial. I doubt they are pleading out just to avoid a trial they think they can win (a move sometimes to avoid the spectacle and cost of a trial) considering this can have ramifications on their defense contracts.

My guess is either way, Boeing comes out of this guilty of criminal charges. Boeing is in heavy damage control mode.
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How does a corporation go to prison?
 
JOhnH said:
How does a corporation go to prison?
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That's the crux of the problem...they don't. They could lose their DoD contracts...except that the DoD is utterly dependent on them and BA's guaranteed a waiver.

The only way to get at the execs as I understand it is to "pierce the corporate veil", and I'm sure that the execs and BoD have been very careful to avoid doing anything which would permit that. Any legal experts out there have comments?

How about forcing BA to spin off the DoD business? Bring back MacD...but wait, that's where all the bad management came from in the first place. Never mind.
 
AviationObserver said:
Sounds like a United maintenance issue.
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Why do you think it's a maintenance issue? Parts break. This is at least the fifth wheel departing incident this year.

Here are a few from Google, stolen from another forum, since 2020.

One in Jan 2020 but the pay wall prevents me from seeing any details.
An Air Canada A319 lost a wheel at LaGuardia in 2020.
A 747 Dreamlifter lost a wheel on takeoff in 2022.
Delta lost a nose wheel on a 757 in Atlanta in January.
United 777, March.
A military airplane Westover ARB, MA in February.
A FlySafair 737, April.
United 757, LAX, July.
 
Albany Tom said:
Eh. They kinda earned it, so I can't feel badly about. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.

Also interesting that it's the whole company. I remember the DC-10 problems, and that didn't become a McDD thing, it was just a DC-10 thing. Then on the other hand, that was a maintenance problem, if I remember correctly, not a manufacturing problem, and I don't remember that companies management being exposed as covering it up. Similar with the Pinto. That was a Pinto thing, not a Ford thing, even if they did know about the problems. I was in grade school at the time, though, so not sure about any of the facts.
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DC-10...Chicago...family saw that happen...ugh. The Pinto was not an oversight, though IMHO.

Couldn't help but think of this one only us older seasoned folks might recall (credit Richard Dawson):"My idea of a loser is Rodney Dangerfield driving a Pinto on his way to the airport to get on a DC-10 and he gets hit by Skylab!"
 
BMan said:
DC-10...Chicago...family saw that happen...ugh. The Pinto was not an oversight, though IMHO.

Couldn't help but think of this one only us older seasoned folks might recall (credit Richard Dawson):"My idea of a loser is Rodney Dangerfield driving a Pinto on his way to the airport to get on a DC-10 and he gets hit by Skylab!"
Click to expand...

And of course the Pinto would be on Firestone tires.....
 
Ah yes, the Ford Pyro.
 
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