Bo vs. Arrow

So, in perpetuation of Arrow Vs. BO, I think I've found "BO".

This is tempting me, and my wife and I are looking at it tomorrow:

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/avo/d/1950-tail-bonanza/6550795867.html

My interpretation:

PRO:

Engine has 500+ hrs before TBO, plane is priced at a run-out engine
Prop has fresh overhaul
An interior our two small dogs will love, while my wife and I can refresh the front seats any time
Seller includes a fresh annual
Price allows me budget for a fresh Garmin install in place of the KX170B
Price allows me budget for a new ADS-B transponder

CON:

Pretty primitive radio stack, but I know VOR navigation well, until the Garmin is purchased
Older V-tails have numerous old wive's tales but if ADs are complied with, should be good?

I'd love to see the ping-pong of opinions on this. I signed up for BeechTalk but they haven't approved my profile yet.
 
Rgbeard said:
PRO:

Engine has 500+ hrs before TBO, plane is priced at a run-out engine
Click to expand...

Remember that TBO has a calendar component as well, so this likely actually is a run-out engine and should be treated as such unless it's been actively flying regularly (every week) for the past couple years.

Also, how well-supported is the E185 engine?

Seller includes a fresh annual
Click to expand...

At the shop of their choosing, or yours? You should read this:
"Fresh Annual" And Other Hooks For Suckers

Price allows me budget for a fresh Garmin install in place of the KX170B
Price allows me budget for a new ADS-B transponder
Click to expand...

Just be aware that buying an older, "cheaper" plane like this means you will likely not get much of your investment back on avionics.
 
What is the calendar TBO on one of these? Never heard of that before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Eric Gleason said:
What is the calendar TBO on one of these? Never heard of that before.
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This is an antique aircraft. Calendar tbo isn't all that relevant. My first Bo flights were in one of those, when that engine was overhauled last, Eisenhower was president. It got sold and the new owner bellied it in during his first transition training flight....


As for support, it's not the kind of plane where just any a&p will do the work (like a retract cherokee). Some proprietary parts (electric prop) and some difficult to find components. An early model Bo is a head-turner on the ramp and an interesting hobby to keep up on the maintenance. It's not a great choice as a 'cheap airplane'.
 
There's enough of a following for these older Bonanzas that they keep soldiering on. There is another PoAer who bought a beautiful polished Bo of about the same vintage not that long ago.

However, parts specific to the model may result in the plane being down for weeks or even months while you hunt down what you need with the help of the Owners group.

If you want high availability at a "reasonable" cost buy something that was produced in large numbers with few model variations.
 
Well, I took a look at it today, and had to pass on it.

The paint, is pretty shot, but in all fairness, I am okay with that.
The interior is better than expected, and in good order.
My wife and I both love the Art-deco feel of the interior

What really got me is the 1950s cockpit lighting, or lack of, and non-standard instrumentation and control positions. No second OBS, so the KX-155 has half of it that's expendible. Controls and instruments were as-if a monkey had laid-out the placement.

It wasn't a plane that I'd want to be flying a nighttime ILS in.

I can see reaching for something, and getting it wrong.

I can see someone getting it as a great daytime VFR plane and having a ball!

We're staying with a V35 as our goal, but my wife and I have raised our budget significantly.

Stay tuned for more from me as I stumble my way to the right plane.

Thanks for all your support and words of wisdom.
 
Rgbeard said:
Well, I took a look at it today, and had to pass on it.

The paint, is pretty shot, but in all fairness, I am okay with that.
The interior is better than expected, and in good order.
My wife and I both love the Art-deco feel of the interior

What really got me is the 1950s cockpit lighting, or lack of, and non-standard instrumentation and control positions. No second OBS, so the KX-155 has half of it that's expendible. Controls and instruments were as-if a monkey had laid-out the placement.

It wasn't a plane that I'd want to be flying a nighttime ILS in.

I can see reaching for something, and getting it wrong.

I can see someone getting it as a great daytime VFR plane and having a ball!

We're staying with a V35 as our goal, but my wife and I have raised our budget significantly.

Stay tuned for more from me as I stumble my way to the right plane.

Thanks for all your support and words of wisdom.
Click to expand...

If you haven't done it yet, join beechtalk.net. It's a great forum with lots of Bonanza expertise. Odds are good that someone there has a line on a good plane that won't get advertised.

You're shopping at the bottom of the market, though. I think you're going to have to make a significantly bigger investment before you find one with a panel that was laid out by a higher-order primate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Eric Gleason said:
If you haven't done it yet, join beechtalk.net. It's a great forum with lots of Bonanza expertise. Odds are good that someone there has a line on a good plane that won't get advertised.
Click to expand...

You mean beechtalk.com? At least that's what it is for me. :)
 
BrianNC said:
You mean beechtalk.com? At least that's what it is for me. :)
Click to expand...
meh....a few pompous folk or two there. But, yeah, good knowledge folk post there occasionally. Just don't say anything a bit negative regarding the GAMI experts....or you'll be banished. ;) those guys are to be worshiped there. :D
 
BrianNC said:
You mean beechtalk.com? At least that's what it is for me. :)
Click to expand...

Yep, thanks for catching that. ;)


Checkout_my_Six said:
meh....a few pompous folk or two there. But, yeah, good knowledge folk post there occasionally. Just don't say anything a bit negative regarding the GAMI experts....or you'll be banished. ;) those guys are to be worshiped there. :D
Click to expand...

Every online forum has a couple of people who are best ignored. There are a couple of people on beechtalk whose posts are predictable and a little on the pedantic side. Within a couple of days of joining PoA I realized there were a couple of people who were going to respond to nearly every post, often with little to add, and not worth engaging with. I enjoy the ignore tool on both forums for this reason. There are people whose posts I look forward to on each forum as well.

The signal-to-noise ratio is noticeably higher over there, though, and the wealth of free Bonanza advice and information can't be beat.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
meh....a few pompous folk or two there. But, yeah, good knowledge folk post there occasionally. Just don't say anything a bit negative regarding the GAMI experts....or you'll be banished. ;) those guys are to be worshiped there. :D
Click to expand...

The '3 Amigos' are actually in a lawsuit against each other right now. Deakin and Atkinson on one side and Braley on the other. There's a thread about it over there.
 
that's nice....don't go there no mo.;)

After a couple of disagreeable comments I made, I was voted off the island....and I'm much better because of it. :D
Those cats have yet to bring a complete engine to certification but, will ridicule the OEMs. That doesn't sit well with me....since one of my good friends was an OEM engineer....Like Ted. :)
 
We went with the Debonair. My wife picked it out of coarse. The panel had been somewhat updated. The radios were still on the left, but a normal 6 pack layout.
 

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The arrow we looked at just seemed smaller inside, and I believe it was more of a 135-140 knot airplane. Even my Mogas burning 225 hp Deb cruises at 150 knots.
 
To the original post. I passed an Arrow yesterday. It was making 118 knots and I was making 130 knots. I don’t know what power setting they were using but we were both covering over 150nm.... I fly a piper Archer. I wouldn’t even consider a v35 comparable to an Arrow
 
If you have DEEP pockets go with a Bo, else a "T" Tail Turbo Arrow. At altitude 155 Kts true @ 65% -12 GPH.
 
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Ive owned my Debonair now for 6 yrs and 600 hours. Since I’ve owned it the only Beech part I’ve bought is the rudder spar upgrade . During the AD check a crack was found where the rudder attaches. But it looked like it was from a bad prior repair. The kit that also does away with the AD, cost $1800, cost about another $3,000 to replace and also repaint the rudder.

Other than that it’s been engine parts, starter adapter, alternator, and battery. There has also been the small stuff that you would expect from any plane, brake shoes, wheel bearings, breakers.

So far over 6 years including the cost of the annuals themselves I’ve averaged around $4000 per year. This includes the expensive one with the rudder spar replacement. My annuals have run around $2000 and have been done by 4 different shops. Currently the basic inspection runs $1800. I help a little and change my own oil and do what I can. Every other year it cost a little more as I have them do the corrosion X treatment.

My pockets are definatly not deep, I haul Mogas to the airport to save .75 a gallon.

I’m not sure how much cheaper a Arrow would be. The big worry with me would be a engine overhaul. And that could happen with any plane.
 
dmcummins said:
Ive owned my Debonair now for 6 yrs and 600 hours. Since I’ve owned it the only Beech part I’ve bought is the rudder spar upgrade . During the AD check a crack was found where the rudder attaches. But it looked like it was from a bad prior repair. The kit that also does away with the AD, cost $1800, cost about another $3,000 to replace and also repaint the rudder.

Other than that it’s been engine parts, starter adapter, alternator, and battery. There has also been the small stuff that you would expect from any plane, brake shoes, wheel bearings, breakers.

So far over 6 years including the cost of the annuals themselves I’ve averaged around $4000 per year. This includes the expensive one with the rudder spar replacement. My annuals have run around $2000 and have been done by 4 different shops. Currently the basic inspection runs $1800. I help a little and change my own oil and do what I can. Every other year it cost a little more as I have them do the corrosion X treatment.

My pockets are definatly not deep, I haul Mogas to the airport to save .75 a gallon.

I’m not sure how much cheaper a Arrow would be. The big worry with me would be a engine overhaul. And that could happen with any plane.
Click to expand...

excellent post. my arrow mx is in line with your debbie costs. my engine is a bit cheaper to maintain, and i include accessories in that calculus. the debbie is purported to be much faster, but it's also heavier empty weight so the power loading on 225hp is about the same. Climb is equally anemic. my baggage area is a bit more to my liking than the debbie, as someone with a 2+1 mission. i consider a long fuse 33/35 a more adequate comparison on the volumetrics.

all in all, a debbie is an excellent choice and much nicer handling (as with all bo products) compared to the cheaper and simpler construction philosophy of the vero beach piper offerings. my arrow glides like a greased brick, the semi tapered arrow would be a better comoarison to a debbie on the flying refinement front.

I consider the short debbie to arrow a lateral enough trade to not be worth the mention. whats relevant to note here is that the comparison between a 200hp airplane against any 250-285hp offering beyond stupid and gratuitous. some people dont like to punch in their own weight so they pick on the little guy. thats what this bo v arrow comparison boils down to. if piper had folded the legs on a dakota we wouldnt be having this conversation.
 
They are both great airplanes! My only downside to the arrow is when you pull the power, she’s got no float!
 
Skymac said:
They are both great airplanes! My only downside to the arrow is when you pull the power, she’s got no float!
Click to expand...

The Bonanza is equally as bad. When I first started training in my F33a I couldn't belive how fast it would sink with the gear down and power at idle. Pull the prop control all the way out helps a little but not a whole lot.
 
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