Blacks in Aviation

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

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Jaybird180
On the heels of the movie Red Tails (& the article in AOPA mag), I'd like to find some statistics (relatively current) on how many Black pilots are on the rolls. Perhaps some percentages???

Any idea on where to even find this data as I have been asked this question many times and can only give a supposition based on my personal observation (approx single digit percentages) but that's suspect by my relatively recent aviation experience and exposure.
 
It's an abysmally low number. Greg Brown wrote about the topic in the February 2012 AOPA Flight Training Magazine, but I don't think he had any statistics there. Leslie may know. I think we were guesstimating at about 1-3 percent, even lower than the percentage of female pilots. Of course, that makes her a rare bird indeed!
 
How many black hikers do you encounter lets say in the cascades ?

I live in an area with a good sized black middle class. Still, at the GA airports they are an uncommon sight. It's not for the lack of money, the ones I am acquainted with professionally rather collect Bentleys or SL300 benzes.
 
Air Force is about 2% in 2009:
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/02/airforce_black_history_022109/ said:
Only 1.9 percent of Air Force pilots are black, according to AFPC. Of 14,130 Air Force pilots, 270 identified themselves as black; another 620 declined to report their race.
“We’ve been trying for 20 years to get more black pilots, but it’s a little lower than it was 20 years ago,” said Stewart, who is a pilot.
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which matches pretty well with this earlier study:
http://www.timothyrgaffney.com/blackhistmonth/blackhistmonth.html said:
The percentages of blacks and other minorities among U.S. pilots are so low it's hard to find meaningful statistics. A 1997 National Academies report, "Taking Flight: Education and Training for Aviation Careers" found 92 percent of U.S. airline pilots in 1990 were white men, compared with 43 percent in the civilian labor force. Less than 2 percent were black and less than 3 percent hispanic.
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And in the airlines, according to the aforementioned OBAP, it's about 1%:
http://www.obap.org/aboutus/aboutus-history.asp said:
In 1976, approximately 80 black pilots were employed by the nation's major and commuter passenger airlines and freight carriers. By 1986 that number had risen to nearly 400, and today the total is estimated to be 674, including at least 14 black female pilots (thanks to Bessie Coleman). While the total increase is impressive on the surface, one must realize that there is a total of over 71,000 pilots working for these airlines.
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weilke said:
How many black hikers do you encounter lets say in the cascades ?

I live in an area with a good sized black middle class. Still, at the GA airports they are an uncommon sight. It's not for the lack of money, the ones I am acquainted with professionally rather collect Bentleys or SL300 benzes.
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Where are the role models?
 
Sad indeed.
I found myself wondering the same thing when I started taking lessons in '98. I went to my first ground school class and was a little shocked that I was the only black guy in class. Not that it really mattered to me because I was on a mission...fulfill my childhood dream!
 
gprellwitz said:
Where are the role models?
Click to expand...

Probably some of that. The role models are there, but outside of the Tuskegee airmen story they are not well publicized I guess.

For anyone interested in the civil rights era, the story of John Cashin Jr who ran against George Wallace for governor of Alabama and worked behind the scenes to bring about change through the courts is an interesting pilot story. He was a dentist and owned a plane which allowed him to campaign all over the state without having to drive on roads controlled by local law enforcement hostile to his cause. Also, the plane allowed him to get up to DC for political work and move some of the other figures around covertly. He did have to contend with sabotage against the plane a couple of times. Also ran into some legal troubles later in life after his political career ended.
 
redtail said:
Sad indeed.
I found myself wondering the same thing when I started taking lessons in '98. I went to my first ground school class and was a little shocked that I was the only black guy in class. Not that it really mattered to me because I was on a mission...fulfill my childhood dream!
Click to expand...
Do you have any theory about the reason for the lack of black pilots? I know that Gilbert from On Laughter Silvered Wings said that he had been told that blacks can't fly, but he was born in the early 1950s. I can't imagine that in 2012 people are getting the same message. The same goes for women. It's hard for me to believe that the reason for the low number is that a large percentage of women still think it's an activity not open to them. I think it's just not appealing for whatever reason.

I wonder how the population breaks down on POA. Since we can't see each other, unless we post a picture or say something about it, it's hard to tell what race everyone is, not to mention what gender.
 
Just like in other professions, some of it is the lingering effect of formal exclusion that extended into the not so distant history. As a result, fewer role models and mentors to bring in others.

Another factor that may play into this: Until recently, most of aviation education was outside of the university and public education system. While there have been historically black colleges as one avenue of entry into areas like the medical or legal profession dating back the late 1800eds, most of aviation training has been rather informal and privately organized. As such, it was also less accessible to the efforts at affirmative action since the late 60s.

Add to that the military wasn't exactly recruiting blacks into flying jobs even after other units had integrated and the current situation makes a lot of sense.
 
I don't really have any theories but I'll admit one thing. In my experience with friends and family, I haven't found many blacks that are interested in aviation. They admire me for pursuing my dream but that's about it. I'm kind of an oddball around them when I start talking aviation and trying to get them interested. Frustrating at times. For the most part, I find myself flying solo.

I know for myself, the only thing that held me back so long was the expense. I make a decent living as an electrician/technician so I have a little money to fly but it took me awhile to get there. I didn't start lessons until I was 33, got my certificate a year later.

So I'd say lack of interest and lack of money are the top two reasons.
 
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redtail said:
I don't really have any theories but I'll admit one thing. In my experience with friends and family, I haven't found many blacks that are interested in aviation. They admire me for pursuing my dream but that's about it. I'm kind of an oddball around them when I start talking aviation and trying to get them interested. Frustrating at times. For the most part, I find myself flying solo.
Click to expand...

Pretty much universal reguardless of race, IMHO. Enjoy the company. ;)

Nice screen name BTW.
 
redtail said:
I don't really have any theories but I'll admit one thing. In my experience with friends and family, I haven't found many blacks that are interested in aviation. They admire me for pursuing my dream but that's about it. I'm kind of an oddball around them when I start talking aviation and trying to get them interested. Frustrating at times. For the most part, I find myself flying solo.
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That's about how my family is too. I'll say that I'm Asian and female. I learned how to fly a long time ago, when I was in college in the 1970s. I never felt there was any opposition but I always sensed my relatives considered me a little bit of an odd duck although a number of them went flying with me back in the day. Even now they will occasionally ask questions about flying but I can see their eyes glaze over at my answers and I know I am talking about something well outside their ability to relate. I never worried about being different, though, since it seems like a fact of life for me in many areas, not just flying.
 
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gprellwitz said:
Where are the role models?
Click to expand...

Ah I think you see her at the breakfast table every morning.:wink2:

On this board we have your lovely wife and Red Tail. Where I learned to fly at PNE there was a black pilots group that used to use one of the meeting rooms at the FBO. I took my neighbor who is black to my flight school for an intro flight. He liked it a lot but had two kids in private school and was just about to put one into college so he never went forward with lessons.

Who knows I guess its just ago old button holing. Same reason that until the late 80s men weren't in nursing perhaps. Lord knows we can use some boost to the pilot population so I'd hope that folks like Leslie and Red Tail and others would inspire black aviators.

Then again its all in the passion because I've never met a pilot who did't always dream of flying.
 
Maybe we should have a poll on race on POA?

I got my tailwheel endorsement from a black CFI. Good guy.
 
Mari, I'm a blonde white guy and my relatives look at me funny for flying airplanes. So I don't think it's just because you're female and Asian. ;)

As for PoA black pilots, the one on here with whom I am best acquainted is not only a damn good pilot, but is great if you plan on going anyplace you want a bodyguard! He's #1 on my list for co-pilot if I ever have to fly a plane to west Africa.
 
weilke said:
Probably some of that. The role models are there, but outside of the Tuskegee airmen story they are not well publicized I guess.

For anyone interested in the civil rights era, the story of John Cashin Jr who ran against George Wallace for governor of Alabama and worked behind the scenes to bring about change through the courts is an interesting pilot story. He was a dentist and owned a plane which allowed him to campaign all over the state without having to drive on roads controlled by local law enforcement hostile to his cause. Also, the plane allowed him to get up to DC for political work and move some of the other figures around covertly. He did have to contend with sabotage against the plane a couple of times. Also ran into some legal troubles later in life after his political career ended.
Click to expand...

Interesting tidbit. I once stumbled across something on Wikipedia referencing a half-dozen airplanes privately owned by blacks in old Tulsa, Okla. which was especially remarkable because according to the article the entire state of Oklahoma only had 2 airports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood,_Tulsa,_Oklahoma#.22The_Black_Wall_Street.22
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Mari, I'm a blonde white guy and my relatives look at me funny for flying airplanes. So I don't think it's just because you're female and Asian. ;)
.
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When I ask my relatives to go flying they turn whiter. They have seen my landings. ;)

There are only a very few people who love aviation enough, who have enough resources, and who have the moxy to want to fly alone, that actually become pilots. Most people looking for a sport want one I which they can be seen by others. You see sky divers taping HD cameras to to their helmets so they can show their buddies what they did today. Pilots ( me anyway) like the solitude, being one with the airplane, and just being free.

The love of aviation is not confined to racial traits, they are enabled by a spark deep in the human spirit.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
Mari, I'm a blonde white guy and my relatives look at me funny for flying airplanes. So I don't think it's just because you're female and Asian. ;)
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But, realistically, the stereotype of Asian families is not to push something like being a pilot. Kids are expected to go into one of the more white collar professions or medicine. Girls, especially in my generation were supposed to take music or dance lessons, not flying lessons.
 
Everskyward said:
But, realistically, the stereotype of Asian families is not to push something like being a pilot. Kids are expected to go into one of the more white collar professions or medicine. Girls, especially in my generation were supposed to take music or dance lessons, not flying lessons.
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You could atone for your youthful indiscretions and take dance now. :happydance:
 
Everskyward said:
But, realistically, the stereotype of Asian families is not to push something like being a pilot. Kids are expected to go into one of the more white collar professions or medicine. Girls, especially in my generation were supposed to take music or dance lessons, not flying lessons.
Click to expand...
We had an Asian lady in my Groundschool class. It was unfortunate when she quit. She said she realized that she didn't want to do this. But I think she was demotivated by not having anything to connect the theory to the practical because someone convinced her that it was better to do groundschool first, so the lessons never "clicked".

She said she started to learn to fly as a motivation for her daughter. I liked her motive.
 
Everskyward said:
But, realistically, the stereotype of Asian families is not to push something like being a pilot. Kids are expected to go into one of the more white collar professions or medicine. Girls, especially in my generation were supposed to take music or dance lessons, not flying lessons.
Click to expand...

Certainly I agree with that.

Although my mom would've been happier if I took up knitting. Hmm...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Although my mom would've been happier if I took up knitting. Hmm...
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Knitting certainly isnt as expensive.....now that I think about it my parents probably would have liked that more.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Certainly I agree with that.

Although my mom would've been happier if I took up knitting. Hmm...
Click to expand...

You would have to figure out a way to knit with 4 needles though. ;)

( a lame attempt to connect two sets of knitting needles to a twin engine plane. :redface: )
 
Jaybird180 said:
Interesting assumption to the exclusion (ala' Ralph Ellison style) of any others on this board.
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Nope no assumptions just mentioning the folks that I know of that's all. Any way doesn't really matter as the only test of who I'll fly with is whether or not they are likely to kill me and I'm pretty confident that's not based on race, religion gender or any such thing.
 
If you look at history you will find that that none of the black african countries ever endeavour in aviation or offshore exploration (oceanic sailing), in the past centuries. These endeavours were mostly performed by the european and its descendants. This is why spanish and english languages are predominant in the Americas. This would explain the small percentage of blacks interested in aviation or sailing. Like at an airport you see a very small number of blacks in the marinas. Every ethnic group has different interests for music, religion, food, sports, science and hobbies. You can not expect everyone to have the same interests that you have.

José
 
I'd pay good money to the appropriate charity to watch Mari dance! :devil:

---

Back on topic:

It is interesting to consider - I can count on one hand, all of the black pilots I've met face to face.

One, here on the board.

Two, on the ramp at Stephenville, TX, who were arriving for a "Hard-8 Run" (barbecue, close enough to the airport that they keep a couple of golf carts there for pilots)- encouraging, because they were one instructor, one student.

God knows we are desperate for role models in aviation, folks who can broaden the base of interested pilot candidates. I was lucky enough to have the aviation spark lit in me by a neighbor two doors down.

If we're looking for a role model (for all potential pilots, but for black pilots in particular), surely we could do worse than Barrington Irving?

http://www.experienceaviation.org/
 
Piloto said:
If you look at history you will find that that none of the black african countries ever endeavour in aviation or offshore exploration (oceanic sailing), in the past centuries. These endeavours were mostly performed by the european and its descendants. This is why spanish and english languages are predominant in the Americas. This would explain the small percentage of blacks interested in aviation or sailing. Like at an airport you see a very small number of blacks in the marinas. Every ethnic group has different interests for music, religion, food, sports, science and hobbies. You can not expect everyone to have the same interests that you have.
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Laced with bait for argument.
 
Piloto said:
If you look at history you will find that that none of the black african countries ever endeavour in aviation or offshore exploration (oceanic sailing), in the past centuries. These endeavours were mostly performed by the european and its descendants. This is why spanish and english languages are predominant in the Americas. This would explain the small percentage of blacks interested in aviation or sailing. Like at an airport you see a very small number of blacks in the marinas. Every ethnic group has different interests for music, religion, food, sports, science and hobbies. You can not expect everyone to have the same interests that you have.

José
Click to expand...

Blacks were systematically excluded from flight training for the longest time, out of the 996 tuskegee airmen not a single one managed to find employment with a major airline after the war. The first professional pilot hired by a major had to sue his way into the seat. But sure, it's somehow in the culture or genes :confused: .
 
Everskyward said:
My mom once told me I should be a lawyer because I liked to argue...
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My mom never suggested that, although I sure did enjoy arguing.

SCCutler said:
I'd pay good money to the appropriate charity to watch Mari dance! :devil:
Click to expand...

Hmm. I'm thinking we need a new Cloud Nine fundraiser! Mari, you like saving puppies, don't you? ;)
 
gprellwitz said:
Where are the role models?
Click to expand...

Jaybird180 said:
To which statement is your response targeted?
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To both the original question about Blacks in aviation and the follow-on about Blacks in hiking.

I had a pilot friend who was trying to introduce one of his Black friends to aviation and to encourage him to take up flying. His friend had a preconception (not ill-founded) that aviation was like a whites-only country club, and my friend wanted to introduce his friend to Leslie to help counter that perception. I think that at the time we may have had one Black flight instructor at the school. We have one now, and the most we've had at one time is two. And I can only think of one other Black pilot currently flying at Clow right now, though I by no means know all the pilots based there.
 
Re: Race in America

I don't get the big deal here. We're supposed to be aiming for a color blind society and then this?

The skin color of someone won't make me or they fly better, it won't make my $100 burger taste any better, it won't make me play golf any better, or feel better about myself. I'm white of Swedish and Russian (some Irish) stock, all my role models were active military. And it was beaten into my head that you needed the 'right stuff' and I didn't have it.

I figured it out later. So if I was other than a white male it should be any different, that I would have cause to feel marginalized? Just what is this thread about?

Don't have role models? Just go do it, whatever it happens to be. Then become a role model if that is important to you.
 
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