Big Rant. 100 Hours in and no solo. Need any advice.

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afterburner10986

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afterburner10986
Sorry for this pretty big post and I'll try to breakdown everything up until now. Using a burner account as well as I'm embarrassed for how long things are taking. Looking for advice, even if it's "I'm not built for this" (even call me an idiot if you have to) but for the love of god I'm really lost and would like some guidance.

I started flight training around the start of October 2022 (by this time I had completed my written exam, had gotten 88%) and around 30 hours I completed my first stage check (demonstrating stalls/steep turns as well as how to fly the plane) and the instructor I had went up with said I had done well (although at the time I was a bit concerned how lengthy it took to get there, I tried not to pay it any mind.)

Skip to now, I'm reaching close to 100 hours and don't even feel remotely close to solo-ing. After the first stage check, we had started prepping to solo and got to work on landing (haven't landed before then.) and up until 70-ish hours did I really start getting the feel of how to land, and even then it was only good for getting the plane back down and I still need to work on holding centerline/adding necessary back pressure on touchdown. Even things like proper aileron + rudder correction input on takeoff/landing I'll miss here and there and it'll feel as if I've never progressed at all.

Alongside this, my CFI also tells me that I understand my emergency procedures, but in practice when he pulls the engine out he says my decision making is poor. I understand the ABC checklist as well as restart/shutdown procedures, but when it comes to picking a point to land on is where my instructor tells me I fall flat/rush too much in. For reference, we fly along a beach, and I'd have to choose a point to land abeam of and I'll either over/undershoot the point and he'd get frustrated and we'd restart and try again.

Around the 80 hour mark I had flown with another CFI to see where the issue is/if the problem is me and we went and did some touch-and-go's, and by the end of it he had told me besides a few mistakes (such as the ones earlier like holding centerline, also said I was riding brakes and that was his biggest complaint) I was ready to solo. After, I had taken my second phase check and that CFI said I was ready to go solo as well, and I just needed to work on my ground knowledge + a few things I missed in flight, and that its up to my CFI to make the decision for me to go.

I'll admit when I had started my training I was lacking in my study habits, and for the past few months I've really been striving to make the most of my free time dedicated to studying, but now it feels as if I am at a complete standstill with my training, and all the chair-flying and ground work I'm throwing at isn't enough no matter how much I work. Sometimes it also feels as if I don't actually know the information, just where to look and in flight subconsciously I'll be inputting the right control(s) but in reality I'm either missing them or doing too much, and I'm not making any corrections for it. (My CFI agrees.) We had also have had many talks discussing progression/how to handle it, and come to terms with it being a confidence issue, lack of breathing, and poor decision making (as well as maybe a lack of studying seen from the CFI), and even discussed how maybe his teaching could change to be more optimized for me.

I'm at a complete loss to how to salvage this. On days where I feel like I'm putting in good work my instructor tells me I've committed to poor decisions and put the flight at risk, and I'm starting to get worried how far this'll extend in my career. I still have a love for flying despite the length it's taking and really want to work towards fixing this problem of me "subconsciously committing to poor decisions," but I am also willing to listen to the truth of this issue and would like to hear anyone out.
 
It’s hard to say but based on the info given I’ll say two things….1) YOU are the BOSS of that plane. Make that mofo do what YOU want it to do. That doesn’t mean quick or forceful, just DO what needs to be done. Sometimes there’s a disconnect between brain and hands/feet. Get it done (whatever IT is). And 2) imma suggest you find a well seasoned pilot FRIEND who will let u sit right seat in their plane and just WATCH what they do, listen to what they’re saying. I think taking you out of the ‘stressful’ learning environment and seeing how it’s really done may help you relax a bit. But again, wtf do I know (hint: not much).

As for studying, the only person who can fix that is you. COMMIT and get to studying.
 
Hmmm….so, to recap, one instructor says you’re ready to solo and the other says your a hazard to humanity? For some people, once an impression forms they will never let you out of the box. From there on out, you will never be able to do anything right. It may or may not be you, but remember that some people are not cut out to be instructors. And sometimes, it’s just a miss-match of styles. (I was appalled when I came back to flying and found headsets in every plane, which came with a constant stream of consciousness mascarading as “instruction.” I really preferred the BH (before headset) days when the instructor would tap the altimeter with his pen to bring a student’s attention to the problem and you learned by doing, making mistakes, and getting debriefed on the ground).

This is your money and your time (not to mention your self-confidence) at stake. This guy’s got you second guessing yourself into inaction. Your only mistake is staying with this particular instructor way, way too long. I’d change instructors, maybe even schools, and start with a blank slate.

A fresh set of eyes, a more relaxed cockpit environment, and a bit of confidence boosting success might be all that you require. I frequently suggest a flying vacation, if you can swing it. Go someplace new, fly an hour twice a day for a week.
 
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You don't give your age but as people get older it takes a little longer for information to sink into the mush in our skulls. You also know the folks learn at different rates so don't let the amount of time it takes be the major factor in your view of your progress.

I would also suggest you find a way to not focus so much on the negative. It can be a killer of ambition. Certainly things go wrong and need to be considered but looking on the bright side i.e. "the sunny side of the street" has a way of bolstering confidence. As mentioned above, you are the PIC (pilot in command) so make the airplane do what you want/need it to do. You don't need to be ham-fisted with it but be assertive. As others have mentioned maybe a change of CFI is the answer.

Finally ... there are those that desire to be pilots that just can't be. We have a man at our airport that has been "working on it" with near zero results for a few years now. He says he studies but can't tell you a thing he has learned. Hasn't taken the written yet knowing he can't pass it. He's spent a bunch of time and money on planes (he has three in various stages of being legal to fly), money on instructors, money on plans & schemes to get a certificate and he's no closer than when I first met him. He ain't serious, he's living in a fantasy world. He will never get what he says he wants because he's not willing to do the work required yet he's deluded himself that he will.

I don't believe this is you you at all but I mention it to say that the answer you are seeking is within you. No one here can tell you whether to continue or not. Truthfully, as a pilot myself, I hope you do and come back to tell us of your success!
 
Are you learning to fly for fun or a career.
If for fun. Keep having fun and work to get your ppl.
If for a career- it is going to get harder- a lot harder, if it’s not really clicking maybe this just isn’t your skill.
 
rhkennerly said:
Hmmm….so, to recap, one instructor says you’re ready to solo and the other says your a hazard to humanity? For some people, once an impression forms they will never let you out of the box. From there on out, you will never be able to do anything right. It may or may not be you, but remember that some people are not cut out to be instructors. And sometimes, it’s just a miss-match of styles. (I was appalled when I came back to flying and found headsets in every plane, which came with a constant stream of consciousness mascaraing as “instruction.” I really preferred the BH (before headset) days when the instructor would tap the altimeter with his pen to bring a student’s attention to the problem and you learned by doing, making mistakes, and getting debriefed on the ground).

This is your money and your time (not to mention your self-confidence) at stake. This guy’s got you second guessing yourself into inaction. Your only mistake is staying with this particular instructor way, way too long. I’d change instructors, maybe even schools, and start with a blank slate.

A fresh set of eyes, a more relaxed cockpit environment, and a bit of confidence boosting success might be all that you require. I frequently suggest a flying vacation, if you can swing it. Go someplace new, fly an hour twice a day for a week.
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I appreciate your suggestions, for a bit of further input I haven't looked into a total CFI switch because I like my instructor but it's becoming more apparent his teaching style isn't clicking well with me. As for a school switch, I haven't made too much of a consideration because I was a bit over-ambitious and took out a loan to afford training and not sure how it'll transfer over, and without having a CFI switch I find myself hesitant switching schools all together.
 
benyflyguy said:
Are you learning to fly for fun or a career.
If for fun. Keep having fun and work to get your ppl.
If for a career- it is going to get harder- a lot harder, if it’s not really clicking maybe this just isn’t your skill.
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I wanted to fly as a career, and to which I agree it's only going to get harder and I'm not sure how to navigate this with such consideration as well as the idea I've financially pinned myself towards it.
 
If you have flown close to 100 hrs since last Oct, that is a lot hrs fast How often do you fly per week?

I learned in 2015 at 55 years old. It took me 16 months to earn my PPL and just over 100 hrs. I was a little embarrassed how long it took me apparently I am not alone. I was like you and was not prepared for each lesson at first. Did not study enough on my own until when one day out of the blue my instructor said that I had too many hrs and money invested to quit. I never once thought about quitting but it made me think I better buckle down and get it done. So I turned my mind to flight training 24/7 until my checkride. I still think about flying pretty much 24/7 now anyway. It becomes a way of life for me.
I not sure what to recommend to you so I will leave that to others. Good luck.
 
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To be honest, I would start over. I know it's really hard to think of with so much invested already, but I would switch CFIs and tell that CFI that I wanted him to teach me from the very beginning. You will probably progress very quickly, as you sound like you have a good grasp on most things. It will catch anything that didn't click for you the first time around, and a review should help you feel more confident. Try to mentally start over, and commit to studying hard before each lesson so you know what you should be doing and know which questions to ask for maximum learning. Forget the 100 hours and the fact that your current CFI seems to think you should never solo. Other CFIs seem to think you are fine, so I doubt it is that you shouldn't or can't solo.
 
Your case is not uncommon. I've worked at flight schools and found that some people take charge and realize they are 'The-Pilot-In-Command' before others.

Before the next flight, convince yourself to be the sole operator of the aircraft and don't look to the instructor for ANY assistance or advice. You've got all the instruction you need now take charge of the aircraft. Don't look to the instructor to show you... you show the instructor.
 
Klaus M said:
Your case is not uncommon. I've worked at flight schools and found that some people take charge and realize they are 'The-Pilot-In-Command' before others.

Before the next flight, convince yourself to be the sole operator of the aircraft and don't look to the instructor for ANY assistance or advice. You've got all the instruction you need now take charge of the aircraft. Don't look to the instructor to show you... you show the instructor.
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Good advise and I received the same one day from the chief flight instructor during a stage check. He showed me that the plane will do what I ask it to do including fly a foot above the runway. Then all I had to do is pull the power smoothly and the plane will land.
I was afraid for too long until I realized I was in charge not the plane or instructor.
 
I agree with the others about a new/different instructor. The school should allow you to change instructors. If not, RUN AWAY.

When I was learning, the instructor seemed to not want to solo me. I felt I was ready. He had nothing to say during pattern work and landings. He left, the new instructor flew one flight and asked why I had not soloed, and soloed me.
 
afterburner10986 said:
was a bit over-ambitious and took out a loan to afford training and not sure how it'll transfer over, and without having a CFI switch I find myself hesitant switching schools all together
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  1. I am so sorry to hear this. Since you’re anonymous, could you fill us in on the details?

  2. Did you borrow from a bank/credit union or through the financial company suggested by the flight school?

  3. Did you buy a block of time, say 100 hrs, or are you drawing against a line of credit (eg. $20,000 max)?

  4. Has the money been transferred to the flight school, or do you hold & pay the school directly?

  5. If the money was transferred to the school as a tranche, can you get the unused portion of cash back?
You should at least entertain the idea (at worst) that an unscrupulous school has been stringing you along. Or (best case) they’ve merely got you chasing sunk costs. You wouldn’t happen to be flying on the GI bill, would you?
 
Could be your instructor, could be you. We can't really tell online and some of us aren't instructors do what do we know right?

It is weird your instructor seemingly asking you to learn forced landings before solo. Mine never did that. We only did PFL where he'd pull power in the circuit and I land it without power. And that make sense since first solo is just circuit work. It is also weird you went so many hours before you start trying to land the plane. I actually landed on hour 2. He said I was to do the approach and he'd take over to land, but he never did and I just went for it. It still took me a handful of hours after that to become consistently lining up, and a lot more time before I could do crosswind without my garmin watch telling me just how much cardio I was doing during final, but the point is I think you should have been attempting the landing before 30 hours.

And I noticed someone said it, and it sucks to hear it, but I do think there are some people who will not finish. Just before my test my CFI came in for our last practice ranting about the guy he'll have to fail at the college program he instructs at for a day job. It happens. This isn't like driving, cause if you think about it, it is about as unnatural a thing as it could be for a primate to be flying. My first CFI said that he's bored when he drive cause it's nothing and that flying is way more interesting because it is a thinking game. I have to agree. I was screwing up forced landing for a while till it clicks what I information am looking for and the rhythm of the tasks you needed to do. All this while you might have the worry of a real engine failure where you can't overshoot and abort at anytime? Flying can be hard.

Anyhow all said I hope it works out for you.
 
"If the student hasn't learned, the instructor hasn't taught." We hear that a lot where I work as a CFI.

I read these posts from time to time and always feel sad. We have a great success record at the Part 61 school here. In more than 3300 hours of instruction, I can only think of a handful who did not solo, usually at 20-25 hours and 85 or more landings. If your CFI did not have you making landings early in your training, I don't understand that approach.
 
I'll be honest, I didn't read everything, but after 100 hours and multiple instructors at the same school, I'd say the school isn't working out for you. You need to change schools.
 
I appreciate everyone's responses and insight here, just came back from a heavy workday and will try to reply to everything I could.
For the most part what I am reading is that a school change is more of value than a CFI change, although I do wish to throw out I only flew with two other instructors once (per person), but I'm coming to agreement that I should look for a better school.

Klaus M said:
Before the next flight, convince yourself to be the sole operator of the aircraft and don't look to the instructor for ANY assistance or advice. You've got all the instruction you need now take charge of the aircraft. Don't look to the instructor to show you... you show the instructor.
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Really like this advice because there have been moments where I knew what I was supposed to be doing but relied on my CFI to confirm what I was doing was correct, so next time I'll really try pinning this one down.

rhkennerly said:
  1. I am so sorry to hear this. Since you’re anonymous, could you fill us in on the details?

  2. Did you borrow from a bank/credit union or through the financial company suggested by the flight school?

  3. Did you buy a block of time, say 100 hrs, or are you drawing against a line of credit (eg. $20,000 max)?

  4. Has the money been transferred to the flight school, or do you hold & pay the school directly?

  5. If the money was transferred to the school as a tranche, can you get the unused portion of cash back?
You should at least entertain the idea (at worst) that an unscrupulous school has been stringing you along. Or (best case) they’ve merely got you chasing sunk costs. You wouldn’t happen to be flying on the GI bill, would you?
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1. I would love to fill in any details missing, anything to help me get past this.
2. I borrowed from the financial company suggested by the school (Sallie Mae... gross.)
3. I drew against a line of credit.
4. The money has been transferred to the school.
5. I'm actually unsure of this one, and will use my upcoming time to find out.

For the most part I don't think my school is trying to string me along, but it being a Part 141 I'm surprised the only convo I had with progression was a personal one with my CFI, so I'm assuming they're having me chase sunk costs.
With this being said, I don't understand how to (financially) transfer schools so my next line of action would to do more research into that.

SebIp said:
And I noticed someone said it, and it sucks to hear it, but I do think there are some people who will not finish. Just before my test my CFI came in for our last practice ranting about the guy he'll have to fail at the college program he instructs at for a day job. It happens. This isn't like driving, cause if you think about it, it is about as unnatural a thing as it could be for a primate to be flying. My first CFI said that he's bored when he drive cause it's nothing and that flying is way more interesting because it is a thinking game. I have to agree. I was screwing up forced landing for a while till it clicks what I information am looking for and the rhythm of the tasks you needed to do. All this while you might have the worry of a real engine failure where you can't overshoot and abort at anytime? Flying can be hard.

Anyhow all said I hope it works out for you.
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Again, I can appreciate someone throwing the reality of it to me. I know I really want to strive making this a career and it may end up just not being my thing but I want to continue working for it, and at the same time I wish there was like an indicator it's time to give up because sometimes I feel I'm being too headstrong with my training and not really making sound decisions with continuing or not, if that makes sense.
 
I'll echo what a lot of the folks above have said, along the lines of "if the plan you've followed has led you to a place that isn't good, you may need to modify the plan a bit." Bit of a paraphrase from 'no country for old men'.

My bet is that you're over thinking things a lot, and that at least one of the CFI's is stressing you out, and this is all adding to pressure. I'm going to guess you're early 20's, and that your instructors are working in a place that pops out students quickly. If you can swing it, I'd maybe try to find someone that is 2+x your age, and just instructs more or less for the fun of it, and see if you can get to the point that you're ready to fly with them. That's a bit of a PITA, because that other guy is going to be part 61, and you're 141, so the least expensive way is probably for the 61 guy to give you the confidence you need, then get back to 141 for the signoff. This is my GUESS, based on a lot of things I'm just reading off the Internet here.

The other thought I have, and I'm not a CFI, is that most of flying should be automatic. In that, you can do straight and level, turn, climb, descend, without thinking about it. Sure, you look at the numbers a bit to check that you're where you're supposed to be, but most of it...to me...should be like riding a bike or driving a car. If you're gripping that yoke to the point that you can't wiggle your fingers, or you're sweating when it's 72 and 20% humidity, then you're wound up to tight on things. Just relax, you can do this.
 
Albany Tom said:
I'll echo what a lot of the folks above have said, along the lines of "if the plan you've followed has led you to a place that isn't good, you may need to modify the plan a bit." Bit of a paraphrase from 'no country for old men'.

My bet is that you're over thinking things a lot, and that at least one of the CFI's is stressing you out, and this is all adding to pressure. I'm going to guess you're early 20's, and that your instructors are working in a place that pops out students quickly. If you can swing it, I'd maybe try to find someone that is 2+x your age, and just instructs more or less for the fun of it, and see if you can get to the point that you're ready to fly with them. That's a bit of a PITA, because that other guy is going to be part 61, and you're 141, so the least expensive way is probably for the 61 guy to give you the confidence you need, then get back to 141 for the signoff. This is my GUESS, based on a lot of things I'm just reading off the Internet here.

The other thought I have, and I'm not a CFI, is that most of flying should be automatic. In that, you can do straight and level, turn, climb, descend, without thinking about it. Sure, you look at the numbers a bit to check that you're where you're supposed to be, but most of it...to me...should be like riding a bike or driving a car. If you're gripping that yoke to the point that you can't wiggle your fingers, or you're sweating when it's 72 and 20% humidity, then you're wound up to tight on things. Just relax, you can do this.
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You pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one... at the most, relaxing is probably my biggest battle and the CFI I'm with can't provide me getting over it
 
afterburner10986 said:
Again, I can appreciate someone throwing the reality of it to me. I know I really want to strive making this a career and it may end up just not being my thing but I want to continue working for it, and at the same time I wish there was like an indicator it's time to give up because sometimes I feel I'm being too headstrong with my training and not really making sound decisions with continuing or not, if that makes sense.
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There are a lot of different points where only you can decide if it is for you. There is the ability part because we all have our limits in different areas. This one is hard because we aren't there to see exactly what's going on. And even if we are, it's still your decision. Another area is do you still really want to, which it sounds like you do. And also there is the can you really still justify the effort? You can really want to do something but just maybe you realize there are other paths in life. I went through this considering if I was going to pursue a PhD. I wanted to and there are still parts of me that if I were to win a lottery tomorrow, I'd just to back to school. However, life has worked out just fine and in a lot of ways more suitable for my disposition than turning my hair grey trying to publish and get tenured. I still think I would have loved academia as a career, just like you never forget the girl that could have been the one, but you move on because that's how life is.

I went through a period where I started to hate the training, and I didn't do it for a career. This was cause it was taking a while and there were things that I wasn't getting the first time. Sorry not trying to rub anything in, but all the basic flying skills came easily to me, and the ones that needed thinking and then applying to the flying just seemed so much harder. And also the weather and commitments to family and work means there were weeks I didn't fly so when I did go back, again we did the same airworks and other check out exercise so my CFI can be sure I still know what I am doing. And it always "your hands and feets are still good", so it was just repetitive. It was getting to me, all the wake up at 5am so I can get it done on a Sat or Sun early so the family doesn't notice I was gone, and feeling like nothing much was happening. I stuck with it though because even in the worse period, it was just the evaluation that caused me distress and in hindsight maybe more because of how I wanted to be perfect on everything. When I was up there with the CFI or better yet solo, it was great. Flying was great, being up there was awesome. I could fly everyday if I don't have to work for money or if it was my career.

So maybe that's the question you need to ask yourself. You want this as a career, but why? Do you enjoy flying still? Or is it becoming a chore? Maybe there are hard parts but do you feel great when you are at 5500 feet, 75% power and leaned out going from A to B?
 
I would ask for a sit down with your instructor and chief pilot.
Know your funds level with the school before the meeting.

Make a list of specific questions as to why are you at 100 hrs and $$$'s into training and no solo.
Point out the total dollars spent to date.
"Other instructor said I was ready", yet hrs and $$'s later, no solo.
Ask for a thorough evaluation of where you are in the program.
Take notes.

Be prepared to request a different instructor.

As mentioned above, take control of the situation.

After the meeting, if you agree with the evaluation and list of deficiencies, go to work on those.
If you don't agree, begin the process to switch schools.

Most of all, good luck!
 
Stop screwing up. It’s pretty simple, no instructor will solo you if you continually screw up. Even the guy who told you that you are ready except for the screw ups will not solo you until you are safe. Screw ups are generally ok if you recognize and fix them before they become an issue.

You are pretty verbose, but leave out a lot of details. I wonder if that’s an issue.

You’ve been doing this for 10 months, so you are flying 10 hours a month. That sounds like enough as long as you are flying about twice a week. If you are doing long flights a couple times a month that could be a problem.

You sound like you are overly nervous and insecure about flying. You’ve also admitted to being a crappy student for most of the time you’ve been training. Now you say you are dedicated but still don’t give details. You need to fix you.

Here’s what I suggest.

1. Decide if you want this. You sound wishy washy to me, fix that. If you can’t get past this then consider another vocation. Nervous is ok, but if you can’t control it, then it’s a problem.

2. I’m not convinced that you have fixed your study habits. Imo, you should dedicate at least an hour a day, probably more like 2 or 3 hours , every day to studying. If you’re unwilling to do this then stop wasting your time.
Spend time studying for the oral exam, which is the same material as the written. Your 88 on the written is ok, but not great. The dpe will probe for weaknesses, so be ready. Then spend time going over where your issues are flying. Think about what you have been told you are doing wrong, then go over how to do it correctly.

Holding centerline on landing. That’s pretty basic. You should know the drill after 100 hours, but with your admitted study issues maybe you don’t, so hit the books, commit it to memory. Then do what you studied to do.

Engine out. Pretty simple, best glide and pick a spot. You should be able to do this in seconds. Here’s a hint. The instructor will pull the engine in an area where there is at least one obvious spot. Establish best glide, then immediately find the spot. Next point the plane at it. Then do your flows and checklists, but remember to fly the plane. It should be a series of steps in your head, just get them done. You need to be able to get the airplane into a position where it’s obvious you will successfully land. It’s a lot, requires a lot of study to understand how to do it correctly.

As you progress it will get tougher, maybe there isn’t a spot, maybe you are too low to do anything. What do you do? You’ll know because you’ve fixed your study habits. Right?

3. Fly 2 to 3 times a week. An hour flying time is plenty for remedial stuff like landing and engine outs. But ask your instructor to focus on problem areas, one at a time. I’d start with landings. Stay in the pattern and grind them out until you are safe. Don’t give up the controls unless you are told to by the instructor, fix the problems . Go around if you screw up. That’s what the instructor is looking for. Safe is the standard, not perfect. Remember that.

Debrief after each lesson. Then go home and go over your issues, study how to fix and chair fly the issue. Repeatedly.

Flying is not something you can fake your way through. You need to work at it, not just show up at lessons then forget about it until the next lesson. Get after it.
 
I was in a similar situation. I got my PPL at 57 and 62 hours flying twice a week. However I was struggling with landing. It just seemed to never click with me. My cousin who flies a Pitts and has a Cherokee 140 would call me after every lesson and he was getting frustrated it was taking me too long to learn how to land. One day he flew the Cherokee to my airport and had me fly left seat. The first 2 landing attempts were bad and he had to take over. He realized I had developed a dependency on the instructor for acknowledgment and seemed I could not make any decisions without it and stopped flying the airplane. The third attempt he said something no instructor would which was “I don’t care if you kill us I’m not saying anything or doing anything”. The approach was bad and I froze and true to his word he did not move or say anything. Scared the crap out of me but it worked. I wrestled the airplane onto the ground and made a decent landing. The next 5 were better and got better. He was right and broke the pattern of being dependent on the instructor. Next lesson solo’d and moved forward rapidly. You may not realize it but you may have that same dependency on the instructor causing you to freeze and not act like PIC.
 
afterburner10986 said:
For the most part I don't think my school is trying to string me along, but it being a Part 141 I'm surprised the only convo I had with progression was a personal one with my CFI, so I'm assuming they're having me chase sunk costs.
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now that the demand for pilots is high, there is less of that. In the past, we’ve seen 141 schools run pilots all the way to the top—multi, inst, comm, & primed for atp—all the while knowing the pilot would never qualify for a 1st class med or pass background checks. it happens. There is usually a line in the contract about how it is your responsibility to ensure you can pass all that stuff.

I’m surprised a 141 program manager or supervisor hasn’t met or flown with you to evaluate the situation. In my experience, 141s track progress as a metric of the effectiveness of both the program & the instructor. And I think as a condition of their certification of the program.

Their 141 status may give you some pull in getting the remainder of your funds back, if you decide you want to change schools.

Since you asked for frankness: you should know before you sign a contract or financial document how you can get out of it, what happens if you don’t complete the course, & what your options are if you are not happy with the school or instructor.

action plan: you need to get frosty with your “buddy” your paid instructor, as well as the school administration. Tell your instructor it might be better if you take a break from each other. And then find another instructor. Interview several.

Second, do your homework learning the schools conflict resolution rules, refund policy, and standards of progress. Know your contracts back & forth. The school handbook. All that unglamorous stuff.

Third, know the federal regs & policies on certifying a 141 school. The FAA doesn’t get into business disputes, but they are interested in 141 schools that don’t monitor student progress, and don’t meet other standards. I don’t know where you are, but there is an FAA office nearby with somebody whose responsibility is certifying that 141 school. Schedule a meeting.

Forth, put the school on the back foot about being incurious about your lack of progress & just taking your money. Let them know you’ve visited “insert name” at the FAA. Ask pointedly, how to recover the remainder of your funds. Emphasize you signed up with a 141 school precisely because of the structured periodic testing & monitoring of progress to move you as efficiently as possible to a ticket. Yet, they have repeatedly failed you.

“Build you enemy a golden bridge over which he can escape.” Ask, “so how can we resolve this so we all win?”
 
SebIp said:
This isn't like driving, cause if you think about it, it is about as unnatural a thing as it could be for a primate to be flying. My first CFI said that he's bored when he drive cause it's nothing and that flying is way more interesting because it is a thinking game. I have to agree.
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And that is why 100 people die every day in the USA on the roads. Driving IS a thinking game, but most people are not thinking while driving.
 
Pinecone said:
And that is why 100 people die every day in the USA on the roads. Driving IS a thinking game, but most people are not thinking while driving.
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Don’t disagree, but the point is that for most driving it doesn’t take as much effort.
 
afterburner10986 said:
Sorry for this pretty big post and I'll try to breakdown everything up until now. Using a burner account as well as I'm embarrassed for how long things are taking. Looking for advice, even if it's "I'm not built for this" (even call me an idiot if you have to) but for the love of god I'm really lost and would like some guidance.

I started flight training around the start of October 2022 (by this time I had completed my written exam, had gotten 88%) and around 30 hours I completed my first stage check (demonstrating stalls/steep turns as well as how to fly the plane) and the instructor I had went up with said I had done well (although at the time I was a bit concerned how lengthy it took to get there, I tried not to pay it any mind.)

Skip to now, I'm reaching close to 100 hours and don't even feel remotely close to solo-ing. After the first stage check, we had started prepping to solo and got to work on landing (haven't landed before then.) and up until 70-ish hours did I really start getting the feel of how to land, and even then it was only good for getting the plane back down and I still need to work on holding centerline/adding necessary back pressure on touchdown. Even things like proper aileron + rudder correction input on takeoff/landing I'll miss here and there and it'll feel as if I've never progressed at all.

Alongside this, my CFI also tells me that I understand my emergency procedures, but in practice when he pulls the engine out he says my decision making is poor. I understand the ABC checklist as well as restart/shutdown procedures, but when it comes to picking a point to land on is where my instructor tells me I fall flat/rush too much in. For reference, we fly along a beach, and I'd have to choose a point to land abeam of and I'll either over/undershoot the point and he'd get frustrated and we'd restart and try again.

Around the 80 hour mark I had flown with another CFI to see where the issue is/if the problem is me and we went and did some touch-and-go's, and by the end of it he had told me besides a few mistakes (such as the ones earlier like holding centerline, also said I was riding brakes and that was his biggest complaint) I was ready to solo. After, I had taken my second phase check and that CFI said I was ready to go solo as well, and I just needed to work on my ground knowledge + a few things I missed in flight, and that its up to my CFI to make the decision for me to go.

I'll admit when I had started my training I was lacking in my study habits, and for the past few months I've really been striving to make the most of my free time dedicated to studying, but now it feels as if I am at a complete standstill with my training, and all the chair-flying and ground work I'm throwing at isn't enough no matter how much I work. Sometimes it also feels as if I don't actually know the information, just where to look and in flight subconsciously I'll be inputting the right control(s) but in reality I'm either missing them or doing too much, and I'm not making any corrections for it. (My CFI agrees.) We had also have had many talks discussing progression/how to handle it, and come to terms with it being a confidence issue, lack of breathing, and poor decision making (as well as maybe a lack of studying seen from the CFI), and even discussed how maybe his teaching could change to be more optimized for me.

I'm at a complete loss to how to salvage this. On days where I feel like I'm putting in good work my instructor tells me I've committed to poor decisions and put the flight at risk, and I'm starting to get worried how far this'll extend in my career. I still have a love for flying despite the length it's taking and really want to work towards fixing this problem of me "subconsciously committing to poor decisions," but I am also willing to listen to the truth of this issue and would like to hear anyone out.
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I don't believe anyone is "not built for this". Even pilots with serious physical disabilities have conquered flight (look up Jessica Cox). It all comes down to (1) are you putting in the work before and after each flight, thinking through each point and trying to get a deeper understanding, and (2) is your instructor giving you adequate instruction and feedback.

If a student hasn't soloed by 30 hours, as an instructor I would ring an alarm bell and have an honest conversation with that student. A big reason I have seen for lack of progress is students showing up for a flight like they are coming for a movie, with no preparation and no recollection of what we did last time. I have seen this, and it frustrates me a great deal that they are wasting their time and money, and mine. The second aspect is instruction. This is the process of breaking down each task and explaining in a manner that "clicks" for the student. It is more of an art than a science. Binders full of lesson plans and thousands of hours of flying experience don't translate into good flight instruction.

A couple of things stand out in your post. I don't have experience with practicing approaches along beaches, but this doesn't appear to be a great exercise for a struggling student. A beach with no distinct features may not be an easy place to learn this. Why not do the same thing on a runway? You have better visual references, and approach to a runway is what you ultimately have to master anyway. The comment about "poor decision making" in emergency procedures requires further explanations. Are you doing the wrong things, like turning off the magnetos or cutting off mixture etc...? The more important thing is, why does the second instructor think you are almost ready, but the first one doesn't? It sounds like you need a third opinion. It is not like your first instructor is the final authority. You really need to seek outside help. Actually, you should have sought outside help when you crossed the 30 hour mark.
 
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Maybe I'm more of a fatalist but I think I might give it up in this kind of situation. Maybe take a shot at a different flight school, but with a highly open mind.

At roughly $200 an hour that's already $20,000, and solo is really just an early step in the process. Where does this all end up? How much will it end up costing, not just to "get your pilot's certificate", but do be the kind of pilot you know you ought to be? I know it would be hard for anyone who has put this much into a goal to accept this, but some people simply aren't cut out to fly airplanes, and they end up being a hazard to themselves and to others.

I'm involved in a soaring operation. The highly experienced chief pilot has identified several students whom he acknowledges "will never fly solo in this operation", and has told those students exactly that, most of whom willingly continue to fly even though they know it will always be dual. I remember instructing a glider student whom I would not solo despite his intense efforts and his interest. Shortly after I moved to another state another instructor soloed him and he crashed on his first landing attempt, losing an eye and sustaining other injuries.

Your first paragraph in your original post gives a hint that this is what you expected (and maybe wanted) to hear.
 
Maybe it’s time you have a screw around flight. When I saw my students would hit a roadblock, I would do flight without any instruction, just go up and mess around or go sightseeing. Sometimes it helps the brain reboot, and remember why you want to fly.
 
SebIp said:
Don’t disagree, but the point is that for most driving it doesn’t take as much effort.
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Again, I disagree. For an experienced pilot, flying doesn't take much effort by itself.

Let's see, you are driving a 4000 pound vehicle, within 3 feet of several other 4000 pound vehicles at 70+ MPH, while half the drivers are not paying attention. Yeap, that doesn't take any effort to do so safely.
 
Learning how to fly is mostly learning how to prioritize. There are a lot of things to worry about, but some need a lot more focus than others, while not completely forgetting about the others.

Aviate, navigate, communicate is a simplistic way of describing this. You need to focus more on the left side, but eventually should get around to the right side.

Notice that concern about your performance on the last task, or how your instructor is doing isn't even on the list. Obviously they are important, but they are WAY over on the right side of the list.

There are times when you will become task saturated and it will be very important that you properly prioritize. Teach yourself to fall back into handling the fundamentals whenever things start going sideway. Then start spreading your focus around again once the fundamentals are back under control.
 
Sorry if I missed it, but I've always found it helpful to go for a fun flight. I had a stressful flight one day during training where it seemed I couldn't get anything right. Find a pilot that has access to a plane and just go fly a cross-country for fun. Buy them lunch, chip in with the flight costs. Don't go with one of your CFIs. Bring a friend in the backseat, and throughout the flight, explain everything that's happening. Practice your passenger brief (you'll need to do it on your checkride.)
 
I have a 40’s ad (solo your piper cub in 6 hours) which I think came with a different mindset. There’s lots to learn, let’s see if they can solo before teaching it to them.

is the op in high density area, dealing with a class b or SFRA etc? 80 90 hours of extraneous crap is the problem.

the school should let him pound out 25 landings with new cfi and let him solo (or fire him as a student)
 
It sounds to me like you need to cut ties w/ this school, regroup, and try again somewhere else. A couple of reasons:

- If the school is stringing you along (doubtful, but possible) it will remove you as a source of funding.

- If the school is legit, it also gets you out of that environment and their biases towards. I have little doubt that by now you have a reputation at your school and that will affect instructors behavior towards you. (subconsciously, sure. But it will still be there) You also will have a bias towards the environment. "Sigh, here I go again. Another lesson where I won't solo." It cannot be anything but a bad thing.

- It will also give you a chance to have a fresh start with a new instructor. Fresh starts can be important.

- Hopefully, you'll be prepared and ready to impress this new instructor.

Best of luck.
 
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