Big people and LSA

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TRC1969

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Just wondering about fitting inside an LSA. My choice for now at least is a Sport Cruiser. Im a weightlifter 6ft,255, very wide at the shoulders. Will I fit in a Sport Cruiser? I begin training in October and am actually worried about fitting with another large person. All thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
 
Define fit. Elbow room, or able to close the doors?
More than one large person can be problematic if you want to stay under the legal gross weight. Look at empty weights, and be aware that you don't have to fill tanks to the brim.
 
I guess I need to just go find one and get in. Im reading the cockpit is about 46 inches wide. Im going to take up most of that room myself. Back when movie theaters were a thing I had to have empty seats on each side to be comfortable. How would it compare to a regional jet seat? I can fly on those but wow its a squeeze. Damn medical.......ill get it but its going to take some time...i just want to fly and get some experience. Thanks for the thoughts.
 
Check the weight and balance and you can stagger the seats after the first few flights. Still the problem with getting the first seats.

If you can find a smaller CFI, they can move their seat forward and you can move yours back a little.
 
Thats a thought. That will probably help a little.
 
Looking at the specs on yea olde Sport Cruiser. https://cruiseraircraft.cz/aircraft/sport-cruiser/technical-specification/
1320 gross -855 empty leaves you with 465 pounds
minus 255 leaves 210
30 gallons of fuel capacity, but there is no need to carry more than 15 or so for local flying. So about 95 pounds for fuel
That leaves only 115 pounds for the right seat.

You may wish to look for something with a lower empty weight. For example, my Merlin GT is about 740 pounds empty so that would give you another 115 pounds to work with.
 
Earlier Sportcruisers (CZAW built from 2006 - 2009) were lighter and arguably quicker than the 2010+ CSA built Sportcruisers. The interior room is the same in all year models. (Bristel has a bit more interior room, and they make wonderful aircraft... just a lot more spendy.) Earlier Sportcruisers are the lightest. Mine has a BEW of 808.1 pounds (no ballistic parachute, but with the Dynon D100 EFIS and D120 EMS, autopilot, etc.)

Interior room isn't much of an issue in my opinion. The seats themselves re wider than regional airline seats, for example, and you can sit closer to the center armrest since the point that you'll contact anything is likely the canopy with your left shoulder or head. Pedals are adjustable for reach, so that allows a little slouching in the seat if you need to for extra headroom. (I'm 5'10" and 220 pounds and don't need to slouch, but I have a long torso, short legs/arms, so I sit taller. But I still fit under the canopy without issue.)

In SLAs in general, there isn't a lot of stick movement unless taking off or landing. In flight, stick movement is really finger tips and wrist. So long as you're comfortable and can lay your left forearm on your lap, you should have no issues controlling the aircraft. Just make sure while on the ground that you have full stick movement for takeoff and landing as you'll want full pitch and roll authority available.

Castering nosewheel is fun in the Sportcruiser. I can turn circles in the row between hangars! :p It takes a little getting used to, but I like having toe brakes and the castering nose wheel.
 
Check out Storm Rally and Storm Century. Their useful loads are 560 and 575, respectively.
 
My limited input is that the older LSA's generally seem to have a greater payload than the newer ones. For instance, a Tecnam P2004 Bravo, built in 2005, has a cabin load of almost 400 pounds with a full fuel load of 26 gallons, which is a flight duration of 5+ hours. Back off to 16 gallons of fuel, leaving you with 3 hours +/- flight time, and the cabin load goes up to 460 pounds. So, your CFI could weigh in at 205 pounds, mathematically-speaking (460-255=205). Of course, if the CFI is also wide-shouldered, then it could be a bit tight, so the adjustable seats could be beneficial.
 
Ken Whitson said:
My limited input is that the older LSA's generally seem to have a greater payload than the newer ones. For instance, a Tecnam P2004 Bravo, built in 2005, has a cabin load of almost 400 pounds with a full fuel load of 26 gallons, which is a flight duration of 5+ hours. Back off to 16 gallons of fuel, leaving you with 3 hours +/- flight time, and the cabin load goes up to 460 pounds. So, your CFI could weigh in at 205 pounds, mathematically-speaking (460-255=205). Of course, if the CFI is also wide-shouldered, then it could be a bit tight, so the adjustable seats could be beneficial.
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I am 6ft, 220 and fit in my Cruiser just fine. As mentioned above, the older cruisers have a higher useful than the newer ones, and it does make a difference. Without a chute, the useful is 523 ( Mine does have the chute, so 485 U) Min takeoff fuel is ten gallons, the lowest level that can be visually verified, which is easily 60-70 minutes, reserve, and unusable. More if you back off the RPM’s but the Rotax is best at the top of the curve. It sips gas. I usually keep mine around half tanks, allowing plenty of screwup margin.
 
My son is 6’ and roughly 225ish. I fly a Flight Design CTSW. There’s room, but not an abundance on his side of the plane. The empty weight is 750 lbs. on mine. Thankfully I hover around 160ish, so that buys us room for a good bit of fuel, a change of underwear, and a snack...
 
Fitting!
Fittin'?
What would be some top recommendations or avoid for models with tandem seating, LSA production or exps that are readily available these days. Is it too hard or expensive, relatively? I'm thinking for lower power, unlike most "war bird" replicas. Q
 
Robert Gee said:
Fitting!
Fittin'?
What would be some top recommendations or avoid for models with tandem seating, LSA production or exps that are readily available these days. Is it too hard or expensive, relatively? I'm thinking for lower power, unlike most "war bird" replicas. Q
Click to expand...

The Zlin Savage Norden has a ton of room and is a factory built SLSA.
 

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I'm broad shouldered and about 230 pounds, 5'10" and have no issues having another fairly broad shouldered passenger in the Sportcruiser. I do have a long torso, so I sit taller and the canopy comes close to my headset, but even then it's a non issue (unless in moderate turbulence when I've bumped my head into the canopy.) The seat bottom is pretty generous and if you have broad shoulders, you may need to sit with your hip closer to the center console. But the Sportcruiser (and most LSA in my opinion) just require wrist and finger movement for flight controls, so there's not a lot of movement required of your arm on the flight control, just forearm, wrist and fingers in flight. I typically rest my elbow on my leg and fly via wrist and fingertip motion.

That said, every person is different. Best to find a Sportcruiser and sit in one. That's going to be the best way to tell if it will work for you or not.
 
TRC1969 said:
Just wondering about fitting inside an LSA. My choice for now at least is a Sport Cruiser. Im a weightlifter 6ft,255, very wide at the shoulders. Will I fit in a Sport Cruiser? I begin training in October and am actually worried about fitting with another large person. All thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
I'm a big guy 6’2” and 280lbs did my PPL-G in a Pipistrel and my sport licence in a RV-12. Fortunately my wife is 130lb and I found instructors that we're small. I'm in the process of buying a Bristell which fits me just fine. The Bristell can have empty weights at 770 in the low 740 in the the RV-12 and Pipistrel leaving 580lbs useful load
 
TRC1969 said:
I guess I need to just go find one and get in. Im reading the cockpit is about 46 inches wide. Im going to take up most of that room myself. Back when movie theaters were a thing I had to have empty seats on each side to be comfortable. How would it compare to a regional jet seat? I can fly on those but wow its a squeeze. Damn medical.......ill get it but its going to take some time...i just want to fly and get some experience. Thanks for the thoughts.
Click to expand...
Hopefully you've not been denied a medical by the FAA, 'cuz that also removes sport pilot from the table until a medical is granted.
 
It’s something you should go size out for yourself to see if you will be comfortable. Everyone has a different opinion of comfort. I know a guy that is 6 feet and pretty wide drives a smart car, and says he he very comfortable. I’ve sat in one, and was in no way comfortable.
 
TRC1969 said:
I guess I need to just go find one and get in.
Click to expand...
You do. And the staggered seats might or might not work. Many modern LSA have adjustable rudder pedals rather than adjustable seats.

You mentioned the SportCruiser. It's pretty wide as things go. You can put a set of golf clubs horizontally behind the seats, something you can't even do in an A36 Bonanza (I've tried in both).
 
You can do almost all of your training in a “normal” airplane so the size of your CFI won’t matter as much.

You do have a to solo and check ride in an LSA however.
 
TRC1969 said:
Just wondering about fitting inside an LSA. My choice for now at least is a Sport Cruiser. Im a weightlifter 6ft,255, very wide at the shoulders. Will I fit in a Sport Cruiser? I begin training in October and am actually worried about fitting with another large person. All thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

The same guy that designed the Sport Cruiser left them and started Bristell. They look very similar but that's where it ends. The Bristell will fit someone up to 7', and the cockpit is 52". Quite a bit wider than the Sport Cruiser. But you also get what you pay for. Bristell is a high end LSA and the price goes up with quality and performance. My Bristell weighs 777 pds empty and I have had a 250 passenger with me being around 170. No baggage and 20 gallons of fuel gets me nearly 5 hours of flight before I need to refuel. So my cruising range would be about 500 miles. I need to pee before that...
 
Hey @BlueDream, welcome to PoA. How does the Bristell handle compared to the Sportcruiser?
 
I was looking at the Sport Cruiser when I started plane shopping. It flies fine. It is a bit narrow inside. And they don't offer the 912is only the 912uls. I wanted the fuel injection. I flew 5 different planes while shopping. As soon as I got in the Bristell I was sold. Much more spacious cabin. Very comfortable to fly. I have dual G3X and GTN625 so my plane is also IFR. Registered ELSA. So I can make changes as I see fit. I really love this plane.
 
Congratulations on the Bristell @BlueDream! They are fantastic aircraft. Milan Bristell really did a masterful job with re-imagining the SportCruiser/Piper Sport and making it faster, lighter, and wider while also adding steerable nose wheel with a shock and spring system (very different than the soft durometer bushings used in the SportCruiser's castering nosewheel.)

The main thing about Bristell vs. Czech Sport Aircraft (in my opinion): Bristell listens to the owners and would-be owners and gives them what they want. (for example, the 912is, 914, 915 engines vs. CSA's dogged determination not to grow and stay with just the 912ULS. CSA doesn't issue LOAs to owners, forcing anyone that wants something different to go the E-LSA route. Going E-LSA is good overall for many reasons, but is a pity if done to get away from a manufacturer who will not give you any reasonable choices. (e.g. GTX-335 for ADS-B out only, no provision for GTX-345 or other solutions such as the GDL-88 and replacing the older Aera 396/496 with an Aera 660.) I could go on and on (probably already did :p ), but the overall aircraft is so good, it's puzzling why the manufacturer (CSA) is so poor in its customer service.
 
I'm a big guy, with a non-petite wife. We can't pack light. I can't make the numbers work for me.
 
I had to lose weight and limit the fuel load in order to be able to get in a Skycatcher with an instructor.
 
Brad Z said:
The sky catcher was a disaster payload-wise from the start. You'd think Cessna would have learned from the C-150.
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I had a lot of fun in it, but I had to learn to pack light even when I was flying alone.
 
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